Switching food and urine pH

Does urine pH go up at least temporarily when switching foods?

I fed raw for a little while and was surprised when the vet told me the urine pH was 7. A few test strips at home confirmed this. Tests earlier in the year at the vet's showed urine of 6.5.  At the time my kitty was starting to pass up the raw food, so I switched her back to canned and added a urine acidifier. Her urine went back to 6.5. A few times I left out the urine acidifier for a while to see if it was really necessary. She did OK for a while, but then it would fluctuate.

I recently tried switched the type of canned food and found a couple that her urine went up to 7 again after adding 25% of the new food. Baffling again, as the new food is supposed to be 95% grain-free and higher protein content.

Does anyone know what is going on? Can the urine pH temporarily go up while switching foods?

I haven't used ph strips for my cat, but I do check my own. My ph level changes drastically depending on what I'm eating.

smitten4kittens said:

I haven't used ph strips for my cat, but I do check my own. My ph level changes drastically depending on what I'm eating.

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I'm not surprised that urine pH changes with what food you eat, but what I am really wondering about why it went UP with a diet that is supposed to acidify the urine. I was hoping to get her off the urine acidifier.

http://www.thecatsite.comhttps://thecatsite.com/members/51978Raintyger - did you ever find an answer to your question? I just created a thread with this same question, kinda

My cats used to eat Weruva & then I switched over to Natures Variety Instinct, now their ph is about 7.5 - 8. It used to be 5.5 - 6 on the Weruva. I am trying to research but can't find any answers. Do different brands of canned cat food really change the ph levels that much?

I know this thread is old, I hope someone will see it!

No, sorry, I never really got a definitive answer.

I do know that urine pH can fluctuate widely during the day, though.

When researching ph and struvite crystals when Thomas was found with them, I came across some interesting bits of information.

1. Ph level rises and becomes more alkaline after a large meal, whereas feeding smaller meals through the day helps to keep the urine more acidic. So its best to feed 3-4 small meals as opposed to two large meals for instance.

2. Too many or certain starchy carbs can alkalize the urine even though food might be high in protein. Some people have reported their pets ph increasing when fed Nature's Variety Instinct canned but as this is pretty low in carbs, the more plausible cause here may be on account of there being no methionine in this food. For some cats, meat alone may not be enough to ensure that the urine remains properly acidified.

3. Young cats  are more prone to struvite crystals, and older cats are more prone to oxalate crystals. A pilot study compared urine pH and RSS of senior cats (Smith et al. 1997). The study found that the older cats produced more acidic urine with a lower struvite RSS and a higher calcium oxalate RSS.

4. Some pets are genetically predisposed to producing a protein called cauxin, which is excreted into the urine, causing sterile crystals or sterile struvite crystalluria. This means the crystals can form without the presence of infection.

5. Some crystals are normal in cats as their urine is composed of magnesium, ammonia, and phosphate, but when there is too high of a concentration these elements can bind together to form crystals. While it is important to serve a high protein, low carb diet, ultimately what protects the urinary tract is water which will ensure that the bladder is getting flushed out so that crystals do not have the chance to form. So while it is important to monitor ph levels, its important to ensure cats are getting enough water through diet or by voluntarily drinking.

I used vitamin C in combination with foods that didn't contain methionine with Thomas, but didn't feel that it made enough of a difference. I think methionine may be more effective for stabilizing urine ph, but this is something that should always be discussed and administered on the advice of a vet as not using the right amount can cause urine to be too acidic which can create environment for oxalate crystals. The other consideration is you never want to use an acidifier in conjunction with a food that is designed to acidify the diet such any of the specially formulated urinary prescription diets.

I found the following sites helpful for information on crystals and urine ph :

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+2142&aid=2729

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/09/struvite-stones.aspx

http://www.waltham.com/document/nutrition/cat/cat-urinary-tract-health/276/

thanks for the info oneandahalfcats, I found a lot of the same info but just want to know why, I guess there is no reason because every cat is made different.

When I was researching cat food when I first got my kitties, I read Dr Pierson's website extensively. I performed calculations on all the food I was researching to find the carb content & decided not to feed anything over a DM of 10%. I've stuck with that. I just think it's weird that on Weruva their ph's were more acidic than on the Nature's Variety. But what can I do.

I ordered better ph strips, my current ones are in 2 increments so it's hard to pinpoint an actual number, they should be coming any day now so I will test my kitties again for a few days. I stopped the probiotics that I was adding to their food because it has magnesium in it. That changes the ph & can make it alkaline. The company said the amount is so minute that it won't affect their urine. I think otherwise. I used to add water to every meal but I haven't really been doing that, I started again. The Weruva has way more water in it so maybe that is all they need?

I will have to test more things & try combinations of this & that I guess. I just want something easy but I guess nothing in life is easy.

Yes, every cat is different just as humans are different As far as a reason, I think points 1 and 2 in my post above can be strong contributors to change in ph depending on how and what foods are served. Between Weruva and NV, Weruva is lower in carbs and contains more moisture which may be why you saw a difference in ph when you switched. NV has a bit less moisture at 75% than most canned foods I think.

I think Weruva is good but I find it to be a bit too low in fat. I feed Hound and Gatos to my boys and Stella and Chewy FD to my female as she really likes it. The H&G is lower in carbs and fiber than the NV which I was feeding for a bit, and Wellness before that. I may reintroduce some NV Rabbit at some point for variety.

Could be because of the protein type. Methionine is a naturally occurring amino acid, so the amount would vary from protein to protein.

I asked the same question of probiotic companies about the magnesium. The magnesium is there to provide substrate for the probiotics to multiply from. It's not present in amounts significant enough to create a urinary crystal/stone problem.

When you test your kitty's urine I suggest you write down the results and the time. I remember the pH reading was different when I took Poppy in for a lab test during the late morning vs. the late afternoon/early evening.

Raintyger said:

 
Could be because of the protein type. Methionine is a naturally occurring amino acid, so the amount would vary from protein to protein.

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Yes, that is also a good point. If I recall correctly Turkey has a higher level than say chicken or rabbit. 

I usually check everyone's ph in the AM when they go, which is usually just the once, with the exception of Maggie who will go more frequently. 

Hmmm interesting! I compared the carbs from the varieties I feed NV to Weruva

NV = 2, 9, 10, 10, 9, 8

Weruva = 3, 6, 10, 4, 5, 1

So essentially I am feeding less carbs & more moisture with the Weruva. I will probably switch back after my cases of NV are gone, it's cheaper too! YAY. I buy every flavor of food so if my cats eat it, I switch the protein each feeding. They get about 4-5 cans a day so they get 4-5 different proteins a day plus the chicken or turkey or maybe a baby quail or two. You're supposed to let kittens eat as much as they want so I am!

I do feed raw turkey & chicken grind, but one day the kitties will eat it, the next day they won't. At least the dog will eat whatever the kitties don't so it doesn't go to waste.

When I was doing their ph, I was writing down the date, time & what the level was. I have both boxes in the spare bedroom closet so I would shut the door for a couple hours & then if I got a customer I would get the sample that way. I was checking every time they went pee. As soon as the better ph strips come (hopefully any day now) I will do the same thing. I have some cranberry treats with chicken in them I've been giving my male a few every day. He's the one I'm most concerned about.

I have some H&G but haven't tried it yet. I'm still going through the Tiki Cat Gourmet Carnivore cans about once a week just to see if the kitties like it, if they do I'll start buying cases. I've tried Wild Calling, Addiction, Against the Grain but they wouldn't eat it. I have yet to try H&G, Evangers & By Nature. From the big chain stores, I've tried Wellness Minced & Sliced but they didn't like it. I had them on Nutro Natural Choice but after a month one of my kitties potties got runny so I figured it was probably too rich that's when I went to NV.

SO the bottom line is I am adding water to the food now to make soup, am giving the male some chicken cranberry niblets & will test all the kitties when my new ph strips come in.

Thanks guys!

Weruva is a very low-calorie food, so make sure you are feeding enough. You have to feed about double the volume as compared to an average calorie food (165 calories/5.5 oz can). Nature's Variety is on the high calorie side, about 220/5.5 oz. can. When I compared Weruva to other brands it was almost always way more expensive to feed Weruva because it cost about the same per can, but double the costs because I had to feed double. It is supposed to be very good for urinary issues, though. Low phosphorus and magnesium, even when compared to prescription foods.

I've read that cranberry doesn't do a whole lot for cats because of the sugar content and because it is plant based (thereby making the urine more alkaline), so you might want to compare your male's readings with a recent lab test that was done before you started the cranberry.

They do sell methionine as a supplement, so you could add methionine to the food, but you need to work with a vet because of the risk of the urine going too acidic. You'd need before and after lab tests, plus you need to have regular home measurements with pH strips.

I use D-Mannose on Thomas which is the naturally occurring sugar in cranberries. DM works by eliminating bacteria from the urinary tract and bladder when bacteria binds with this sugar and gets flushed out in the urine. This is a non-digestible sugar and very little gets used by the body and so it is said to be safe for even diabetic cats.

D-Mannose is available as a powder that is mixed with water and administered orally. The recommended dosage is of 2g or a level teaspoon, 4 times a day, one hour apart during a flare. I use this as a preventative with Thomas and to give, I take a bit of Stella and Chewy's and make a diluted kind of meat broth and add the DM to this, which he seems to go for than straight with water which he may not get to right off. The symptoms of feline urinary infections are said to improve after only one day when using this supplement. This is something that you may want to consider and discuss with your vet about trying. More info on D-Mannose : http://www.vetinfo.com/d-mannose-for-cats.html

That sounds like an interesting rotation msserena. While they say its good to have a bit of variety, in my experience I find it best to stick with just a couple of different brands for my crew, given Max's propensity for constipation and Maggie's sensitive digestion. As long as they are getting what they need from a food, I don't feel the need for a large rotation.

I agree with the above posters in that every cat is different, with different tolerances to different proteins, chemicals and stress.
I fed Ritz prey model raw, have for almost three years, and her pH can still be a little high depending on her stress level and what she ate prior to having blood work. She's had two or three episodes of UTIs--one since being fed raw; the vet thinks it is probably stress induced.
This thread discusses some of Ritz's issues. Different meats have different levels/amounts of l-methionine. For a chart, see post 4 of 7 in the thread. So when reading labels of canned food, maybe try to find one of the meats that have a higher amount of l-methionine.
Turkey leg is in Ritz' rotation (turkey breast is hard to find and almost never on sale). Turkey *may* bring on some of her FHS symptoms, so it's not a large component in her rotation of proteins.
I can't test Ritz' urine for pH (no way would she stand still for that), and I know too much l-methionine can cause more problems than it solves. That's why personally I would not supplement her food with l-methionine powder except under the strict supervision of a vet, preferably a holistic vet.

Raintyger said:

 
Could be because of the protein type. Methionine is a naturally occurring amino acid, so the amount would vary from protein to protein.

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That and it might depend on the fat content of the food. According to the USDA database beef fat and chicken fat contain no amino acids.If you look at the database entries for ground beef the 95% lean has .565 g/100g of methionine while the 70% lean has only .351 g.

msserena said:

My cats used to eat Weruva & then I switched over to Natures Variety Instinct, now their ph is about 7.5 - 8. It used to be 5.5 - 6 on the Weruva. I am trying to research but can't find any answers. Do different brands of canned cat food really change the ph levels that much?

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 The "95% meat" pet foods in particular tend to be quite high in fat which is also what makes them so high in calories. Weruva is very low in fat. 

USDA Database

Thanks for the input everyone, I'm getting overwhelmed, it's too technical for me. I didn't understand 1/4 of what was said.

I will research the D-Mannose, thanks for the tip. I can't remember where I read it but I read that the more proteins you feed your cat, especially from when they are very young, they will have less of a chance of  becoming allergic or having food issues, that's exactly why I do it & it seems to be working.