Finally had feral neutered. Need help!

Hi Everyone,

After a few ups and downs, we were finally able to trap our feral yesterday morning! First time for both of us. We've been feeding her for almost a year and have tried unsuccessfully to trap her a few times. But, yesterday worked. A little nerve-racking to say the least. We dropped her off at the vet at 7:30 am and picked her up at 4:00 pm. Turns out our Miss is a Mr., so it was a neuter instead of a spay! He doesn't let us closer than 2 feet or so, but he's very familar with me and my husband. Has been eating 2 meals a day with us, sometimes in the house by the kitchen door.

Brought him home to his own room. Two sheltered hiding places, litter box, scratch posts. Placed the carrier off to the side, opened it and left the room. Left some food in the room as well.  Went in at 7:00 pm (knocking first) to give him more food - vet gave us traumeel for pain to put in his food and it was time for a dose, so I wanted to make sure he was eating. He was still laying in the carrier. Body totally in the carrier, head partly out. He didn't move when I walked in the room. Tried not to look directly, but he had glassy eyes and was out of it. I put down fresh food, put on classical music, left a night light on and left the room.

This morning at around 4:00 am, we heard him thrashing and scratching. When I went in the check on him, he was out of the carrier, but laying right next to it - sort of off to the side, but in the middle of the room. He made no attempt to move. He hadn't eaten any food. The window shade was crooked, so I assume he was thrashing against it to get out? Not sure what he was scratching. I did notice that he had walked in the litter because I could see paw prints. No smell in the room - assume he used it?  Realized 15 minutes later that I left a light on. So I knocked and stuck my head in to shut the light. Peeked my head in and he had moved. Must have moved to one of the hiding spots. So assume that's a good sign.

Is a night light too much, should he be in darkness? Music/no music? But, mostly we're worried he's not eating and in pain. Will try to call the doctor later this morning, but can anyone advise? Is no appetite typical so soon after surgery?

Thanks for any input you can offer!

I wonder if the vet didnt gave him the wakening injection, and this is why he was so out for so long. Because he was out longer than most, the neutering of males istn no complicated operation, really just a small incision. 

The painkiller really dont necessary.

The afterworks of anesthesia is what takes them down, with wobbling gait afterwards etc...   OK, lets suppose the vet spared on the waking up. Perhaps to make it easier for you to transport him home, and install.

What was this thrashing you write about?  If he had force to thrash to get out, I suspect he doesnt need pain killers. Ie, better to let the natural pain be his natural stop-sign...  

As said, you arent sneaky nor cruel, males dont need this, and most females manages without too...

This not eating may be because of the anesthesia, but it is common new cats dont eat nor do their needs a couple of days in the new place. Very common with rescued / adopted semiferales, but happens with buyed home raised cats too.

So do watch, there MAY be complications, but dont overdo being worried.  

Keep reporting, please!

Good luck!

Temperature affects them, if in very warm they come around faster, if they get cold it can take really long until they come around. Never happened with neutering process for me, but when one of mine needed to take some shots (only possible to give those when he is sedated) he had bit of accident at way home and his towel got wet, it is bit over 1 hour trip to vet here, this caused him to be bit cold and wet, so it took really long from him to wake up, also he was really weak when I brought him there and he was totally exhausted after the trip.

I did keep him under the blanket with me for next night to stay warm, got bit wet myself in process and could not sleep much at all during the night as I had to keep his air passages open, move his eyes and turn him to other side every now and then.

I think it was something around 8 hours that he was completely knocked out. Eventually he did 'escape' under the blanket and barely managed to walk to safety from such horrible position, it took days of force feeding to finally save him from dying from not eating condition, but he is now lot more friendly and playful than before the event, all the horrors seemed actually strengthen the bond instead of making him scared of me.

Anyway in your case it is perhaps best wait and see for day or two, classical music is my choice, piano, harp, something that is not too strong, but more of soothing type. Weddings of Figaro might be good some day, but perhaps not at the beginning, there are lot of relaxation music ideas if you search relaxation music from youtube.com site.
Maybe forest sounds might work for him if he has had access to forest before, maybe attempt to bring some of his previous outside world sounds to indoors so there would be something familiar and he would not hear every sound outside of the room which might be bit scary when there is no escape and being trapped fearing from life, in such situation any sound from outside of visible space is probably horror, so it might be better to have some sounds taking most outside of room sounds out.

Just my thinking, nothing in natural world is absolute and certainly my opinions are either, but maybe some food for thoughts.

Thank you both for the replies. Here's my update and to be honest, I'm really upset. I know this is for the greater good and we love this guy. Realize it's only day 2, but I really question if we've done the right thing.

As of this morning, he hadn't eaten in over 36 hours. I left him alone for the day to see if he would settle down and relax a little. I bought a Comfort Zone diffuser hoping that would help. Went in about 20 minutes ago to plug it in and he's laying in the carrier. I intended to take the carrier out of the room once he left it so I just kinda left it in the middle of the room. He's seemed to make it his hiding place in spite of corner areas to hide in.

He did eat his food, no water, but at least he ate, so that's a great relief. But, he's just laying there. He didn't lift his head or look at me. He was just laying with his eyes open, but blank. I can't tell if he's sick (more than yesterday's ordeal) or just scared to death.

The room smells of urine. I noticed this morning that he walked into the liter box. And I could tell he walked in it again (litter on the table that wasn't there this morning), but he didn't use it. And I couldn't find a wet spot anywhere. Could he be so scared that he peeing where he's laying?

I tried talking to him while I was in the room, but I'm really at a loss as to how to help him. Could really use some advice. Thanks.

What sort is the food? if wet he doesnt need to drink so much.  If dry, he should drink yes. 

You must perhaps arrange some forcefeeding of water.

Make it a pedialyte, I can write up a basic receipt if you want.

The ingredients are dextrose (glucose sugar) and minerale kitchen salt (common kitchen salt ok).

Both should be to buy in your food shop.

Yeah, it is possible he pees on himself.   Besides, being used to live outside, he perhaps dont knows really what litter is for.  Next variation, most homeless dont pee and poo in the same place.  So two different litters may be advised.

How to make him recognize litter is litter?  some Kitten attract litter on the surface may be one tip.

Or a little dirt from outside on the litter, so he recognizes the smells. - If you notices where he did his needs, try to use that sort. If it was leaves, sand, dirt...  Just sprinkle a little...

And try to set a little of his pee respective poo in each...

It is common they dont eat or drinks the first 48 hours.

That said, he does seems to be under the weather, as the English says, not just shy and hiding as most newbees, but clearly under the weather...  So Im optimistic, but Im also worrying a little.

It may be the stress pulled off something. Perhaps a virus...

So, If you are on speaking terms with your vet, phone and consult her.

A couple of days ago we had a forumist, somewhat similiar situation; semiferal who got neutered going to be adopted. But cat lying down flatly on his side two days. We recommended contacting a vet asap. They took the cat directly to the vet, and the vet discovered they cat was dying in leukemia...   Why wasnt this discovered earlier at the vet check before the neutering?  I presume the stress ignitet the outburst. So the cat was doomed from the beginning. It wouldtn helped to take it to the vet directly day 1, it would just prolong the fight.   And he would get the leukemia too if not neutered. Later on, perhaps even much later on, but he would get it....

Lets hope it is not so here with you. A common everyday virus perhaps, nothing more.

Contact your vet, do the other little tips, and we shall hold thumbs.

Good luck!

Ps.  DONT take away this carrier!  If he feel it as his safe corner, let it be there. His nonstressing goes first.   Besides, if you must take him to the vet again, it is better the carrier is in the room.  If you come into the room with a carrier, he will understand something is going on, and perhaps try to run for it.

Good luck!

Hummys said:

Thank you both for the replies. Here's my update and to be honest, I'm really upset. I know this is for the greater good and we love this guy. Realize it's only day 2, but I really question if we've done the right thing.

As of this morning, he hadn't eaten in over 36 hours. I left him alone for the day to see if he would settle down and relax a little. I bought a Comfort Zone diffuser hoping that would help. Went in about 20 minutes ago to plug it in and he's laying in the carrier. I intended to take the carrier out of the room once he left it so I just kinda left it in the middle of the room. He's seemed to make it his hiding place in spite of corner areas to hide in.

He did eat his food, no water, but at least he ate, so that's a great relief. But, he's just laying there. He didn't lift his head or look at me. He was just laying with his eyes open, but blank. I can't tell if he's sick (more than yesterday's ordeal) or just scared to death.

The room smells of urine. I noticed this morning that he walked into the liter box. And I could tell he walked in it again (litter on the table that wasn't there this morning), but he didn't use it. And I couldn't find a wet spot anywhere. Could he be so scared that he peeing where he's laying?

I tried talking to him while I was in the room, but I'm really at a loss as to how to help him. Could really use some advice. Thanks.

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Carrier is only place he knows so that is what he makes his base, I guess. If you move it when he is not in it, he probably just uses it in new place after that.

Are you sure that he has not used litter box? From experience, I can tell that many litter brands fail with pee of adult male, it takes some time until smell of urine tones down after the surgery.
Maybe he has sprayed somewhere to establish his area, that should become less when hormones settle down.

I used to knock the door before entering the room and that did help a bit with them.

Cats that I knew well and one even let me pet him occasionally, became such that I could not see them at first weeks when trapped, it took time until they got enough relaxed that they started to explore the room when alone, lot more work until they were exploring the room with me in it, I did slept in the room, took some naps at sofa, completely ignoring them and not even peeking when I heard them near me at later time.

Best thing to do is not to except anything, just see what happens, mostly ignore him, do some reading or take a nap in the room if possible, just be part of the room and show not much interest at all to him.

Problem with showing interest towards him is that as he is now afraid of new place and being lost his territory, anything that shows interest to him is in his mind a hunter that is after him. First step is to get him out of the panic mode, it can take weeks in worst case.

To begin with, first few days are such that it is good to stay out of the room, only deliver food and water, scoop the litter box and stay out of the room, he needs to establish room as his area, something he is comfortable with, only after then time spending can start.

Can't remember where was the link to good guidelines to feral socializing process, it would be useful as it is hard to know what to except without such. It is also very hard emotionally when one would like to take cat and hug him until he is happy, but it just does not work that way.
So after he is eating regularly you can start spend time in a room, I think it was only 20mins or so at the beginning, slowly increasing the time to hour or more eventually, still of course ignoring him, this stage can take weeks alone.
Some time of that and cat might show some interest towards you and then some playing could be attempted to, took me months to get that far.

Of course if he is not really reacting at all, then he might be sick, certainly mine were actively hiding and looking horrified when I did deliver food for them, also with webcam I could spy that they did move around, but of course when I was in the room they did not move, they just were hiding.

Only you are there and only you can see the situation, asking opinion of vet is not hurting and that is something I would recommend anyway if you feel uncertain, it is only so little we can see from this side of monitors. I hope for the best

So, he was really looking sick and not reacting to anything. Just laying on his side. It seemed to us as if something was wrong. I decided to call the vet. She's only a few miles away and she asked if we could bring him into the office. Since I knew he was still in his carrier, I would be able to zip it up and go. But, on the other hand, I didn't want to traumatize him more. After some thought, we decided to bring him back to the vet's office. Didn't want to have to worry about his health over the weekend.

She checked him out. Started with petting him with her bare hands. He just sat there and let her. Scared to death, but he let her. No ill effects from the surgery or any of his shots. She thinks he's terrified. She said that what I was reading as sick was fear. She thought that we should go home and open the kitchen door and let him decide if he wanted to stay or wanted to go back outside. Well of course after only 2 days, he would want to go back outside. She thinks that ferals are happier outside and you shouldn't try to keep them inside. She thinks that he would be happier outside for a shorter period of time (i.e., possibly live a short life) then live a longer life trapped inside. Ugh... what do I do with that? But, she also said she understands how much we care about this guy and if we want to try to socialize, then we should try. She wasn't really discouraging us, but at the same time, wasn't really encouraging.  She said that some ferals cannot be trained to use the litter box. Ever. Has anyone else found that to be true?

So when we took him home, we left him in his carrier in the kitchen while we went into his room to see if we could find where he peed. If he peed. We found it - he found a spot behind the litter box and between the table and sofa. I'm not sure if I know the difference between a urine spot and spraying? But, the rug was wet, so assumed it was pee? He did not use the litter box - nothing in it but litter. Being so late, I tried to clean it with vinegar, water and baking soda. It's better, but we'll see in the morning. We used Dr. Elsey's Cat Attrack for the litter. I put the urine soaked paper towels in the litter box and some cleaned (microwaved) garden soil on top of the litter. Gosh, I hope that works. We put plastic down over the soiled spot, so we'll see.

We brought him back into the room and opened the carrier's zipper. He sits in the carrier and lets me unzip the front without moving. As I mentioned before, I have hiding spaces for him, but since he seems to be comfortable in the carrier, I don't want to take it away from him and we put it in the same place as before we went to the vet. We have a night light in the room, a Feliway diffuser plugged in, classic music going very low, fresh food (we've been feeding him wet food only since yesterday, but StefanZ, would make him the pedialyte if you would provide the recipe) and water. When I left the room, he was in the carrier. About a half hour later, we could hear him thrashing around. And then we heard something fall. I went in to check on him - we always knock, but we have hardwood floors and he hears us coming regardless. He was back in the carrier. Best I could tell, he had tried to climb up (I assume) an empty small bookcase and knocked out some of the shelves. I tried to reassure him with a soft voice and left the room again.

Really sorry for the long post, but quite frankly, I'm freaking out. Just besides myself with worry and guilt (and fear of my own). But, bottom line... we want to do right for this little guy. Appreciate any input you can offer. 

Hi Hummys, wow this brings back memories of when I first brought in Patches after her spay.   I kept her in a small bathroom and she didn't eat for two days.  I was worried sick.  Whenever I came in she'd get into a corner and just look at me - she'd let me touch her but she was just frozen with fear.    I would bring her in a big plate with a small dab of eight different foods, always trying to tempt her to eat.   Chicken baby food finally worked and then she began to eat normally.    If I were you I'd move that bookcase out of that room (if you can w/o risking his escape)  - in the early days after her release into the rest of my apartment she jumped on top of a large bookcase and launched herself from it causing the whole thing to crash to the floor.   Yes, your buddy will occasionally try to thrash and break out of the room especially when all is quiet and he thinks you aren't around.   

How friendly was he to you before the neutering?    I would say that is your big determiner of whether it'll work out or not.   Either way - indoor or out -  you are doing a great thing looking out for this kitty thank you!

It is difficult to come with practical advices as you seem to do everything exactly according to the manual.      Difficult to beat this.      The only left is time.

But he does pee, this is a good sign.  It is hardly spraying, he wouldnt not spray just in a hidden corner, but sooner, on something visible...  He probably drinks too something, because he wasnt dehydrated?

Vet would feel immediately if he was dehydrated. If she though he was ok, so he wasnt.

Bookshelves are useful as climbing tree. But it must be sturdy pieces, which dont fall apart as soon as he climbs on it...  Or jumps from it (when they jump off in a hurry there is quite some thrusting force!).

But the self fact he was  to climbing up, is an encouraging sign!

A little tip. You used winegar, water, baking soda for washing of pee. Nice and good, it is classical, I myself used to recommend this.  Nowadys there are good biological enzymatical cleeners. They are even better.  So, wash of the worst with this winegarsolution, etc, and afterwards,  make it extra good with this enzymatical cleener.

Basic Pedialyte.

1 litre water.

1,5 soup spoon (15-18 grammes) of dextrose (=glucose sugar). You can use other sugars too, but dextrose is best.

1 tea spoon (3 grammes) of salt. Minerale kitchen salt is best, but common kitchen salt OK, this with just Na/Cl.

Boil up. Let it cool down to body temp. Use.    Dont spare more than 1-2, better to make new.

Useful for kittens, cats, humans. Especielly when they have diarrhea or similiar, but also in all cases where rehydrating is necessary.   If they puke after getting water, give just a little at a time, but often, so the stomach dont notice there come in water.

If they dont drink themselves, forcefeed.

Good luck!

Another bad night. Noises in his room since 1:00 am. Finally, went in at 4:00 and he was sitting outside his carrier. He seems more freightened then he was on day 1... if that's possible. OMG, the fear in his eyes is heartbreaking. The room has an overpowering smell of urine. He didn't use the litterbox, but I can't tell where he peed this time. I'll wait for daylight and have a good look. The smell is overwhelming. Everything I read said that using the litter box shouldn't be a problem, so I have to admit that I wan't prepared for this. I thought I was prepared for all of this, but reality doesn't compare with all of the articles (and post) I've read. I have a higher respect for all who do this.

Bastfriend -- we started feeding him almost a year ago, twice a day. On the patio at first. Last summer I tried sitting with him when he ate and moving the food closer to me, but he would only go so far and would walk away without eating instead of getting closer. I tried putting his treats closer to me all the time. But, he has a sweet spot that he won't cross. If the treats are too close to me (even if not paying attention to him), he'll just walk away and not eat them. And he loves his treats. We can only get a 1-2 feet away, before he backs up. Sometimes he just sits and tries to wait me out, hoping that I move away, but mostly he just leaves.This past December during a rainstorm I started letting him eat in the house by the kitchen door. He was skittish at first, but after a few week, he would walk directly into the kitchen and sit and wait for his food. I would play classical music and he would sometimes stay for over an hour after he ate... just sitting and sometimes even sleeping. Then we had a night when I was sleeping, but my husband, who has also grown to love this guy, was feeding him and he walked into the house... deep into the house. Puss was freightened, husband was petrified. He was so scared that he was running all over everything including the walls. He did a lot of damage in the house. I woke up in the middle of it and we ended up chasing him out of the house. Of course, in hindsight, the worst thing to do, and we scared him more, but at the time, it was the middle of the night, he was destroying the house and all we could think of was getting him to stop. I was heartbroken. But, he came back the next day. Wary at first, but within a couple of weeks, we were back to normal. I thought we put that behind us, but could my house brings back such bad memories that it's making it harder for him to adjust?

When he's outside, the few times we've seen him interact with other cats, he's been very subserviant. He used to back away from his food if another cat came near. A few times, he would just run away. We don't see many cats around, so it wasn't a huge problem. But, he seems to be spooked by everything outside - cars, the wind, grass blowing around, larger rabbits. We've tried to trap him a few times, but he's been difficult.

It feels like we're torturing him. I keep telling myself it's for his greater good, but seeing him like this might be too much for me to handle. He didn't eat last night... so he's only had one meal since Wednesday night. I gave him his favorite tuna and he didn't touch it. When we go into the room it breaks my heart to be the cause of such pain. I know it's only been a matter of days, but he seems to be getting more scared. Is it ever the right thing to do to let him back out?

Hummys said:

Is it ever the right thing to do to let him back out?

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With semiferales, whom we do know manage OK outside, this is alway an option. Surely not the best, but no big tragedy either.

He may be one of them who cant stand live inside. It is too early yet to know this, but he may.

Main thing, we do know now it wasnt some scary sickedness, just natural reactions + big stress.

IF it is some virus, it is no big deal in itself.  So you can try and go on and have the guts for it.

You can also release him if you wish.  Hopefully he will continue as your outside kitty, and perhaps mature later on, for a new try, perhaps even voluntary from his side...

All the best!

Good luck!

Thanks, StefanZ, for the words of encouragement. I agree, at least he's not sick.

We're gonna try to keep going.We've been worrying about this little one for too long to give up. I feel bad for us, but worse for him. Seems like he's stuck in a torture room. So unhappy. I opened the window shade for him to see the outside. When we look from the outside (looking in), he's sitting outside the carrier (but, barely outside) looking at the door to the entrance to the room. I'm going to try some good tuna and see if he'll eat that. I'm not sure if it's too soon, but I'll leave him alone for a while and then we'll try to sit with him for 20 minutes or so. Don't know if that will help or make it worse, but we'll see.

The smell is starting to travel out into the hallway... is there any magic to get rid of that?

Also, I have the pedialyte cooling. We'll see if he's interested.

Thanks again for the kind words.

Hummys said:

Another bad night. Noises in his room since 1:00 am. Finally, went in at 4:00 and he was sitting outside his carrier. He seems more freightened then he was on day 1... if that's possible. OMG, the fear in his eyes is heartbreaking. The room has an overpowering smell of urine. He didn't use the litterbox, but I can't tell where he peed this time. I'll wait for daylight and have a good look. The smell is overwhelming. Everything I read said that using the litter box shouldn't be a problem, so I have to admit that I wan't prepared for this. I thought I was prepared for all of this, but reality doesn't compare with all of the articles (and post) I've read. I have a higher respect for all who do this.

Bastfriend -- we started feeding him almost a year ago, twice a day. On the patio at first. Last summer I tried sitting with him when he ate and moving the food closer to me, but he would only go so far and would walk away without eating instead of getting closer. I tried putting his treats closer to me all the time. But, he has a sweet spot that he won't cross. If the treats are too close to me (even if not paying attention to him), he'll just walk away and not eat them. And he loves his treats. We can only get a 1-2 feet away, before he backs up. Sometimes he just sits and tries to wait me out, hoping that I move away, but mostly he just leaves.This past December during a rainstorm I started letting him eat in the house by the kitchen door. He was skittish at first, but after a few week, he would walk directly into the kitchen and sit and wait for his food. I would play classical music and he would sometimes stay for over an hour after he ate... just sitting and sometimes even sleeping. Then we had a night when I was sleeping, but my husband, who has also grown to love this guy, was feeding him and he walked into the house... deep into the house. Puss was freightened, husband was petrified. He was so scared that he was running all over everything including the walls. He did a lot of damage in the house. I woke up in the middle of it and we ended up chasing him out of the house. Of course, in hindsight, the worst thing to do, and we scared him more, but at the time, it was the middle of the night, he was destroying the house and all we could think of was getting him to stop. I was heartbroken. But, he came back the next day. Wary at first, but within a couple of weeks, we were back to normal. I thought we put that behind us, but could my house brings back such bad memories that it's making it harder for him to adjust?

When he's outside, the few times we've seen him interact with other cats, he's been very subserviant. He used to back away from his food if another cat came near. A few times, he would just run away. We don't see many cats around, so it wasn't a huge problem. But, he seems to be spooked by everything outside - cars, the wind, grass blowing around, larger rabbits. We've tried to trap him a few times, but he's been difficult.

It feels like we're torturing him. I keep telling myself it's for his greater good, but seeing him like this might be too much for me to handle. He didn't eat last night... so he's only had one meal since Wednesday night. I gave him his favorite tuna and he didn't touch it. When we go into the room it breaks my heart to be the cause of such pain. I know it's only been a matter of days, but he seems to be getting more scared. Is it ever the right thing to do to let him back out?

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Letting him back out is something that I don't feel good so soon, it will take few weeks for his hormones to settle, only then you can really tell which kind of cat he is going to be, so I would recommend to keep him few weeks, see how it gets going.

What kind of litter you have? There are litter that has very tiny grain size, micro litter or something similar, that is something that might be close to what he has used before in nature.

Do you have anything soft in the room? My experience is that if litter is something cat don't like, it is either next to litter box or something soft, preferably out of immediate sight, if any shadowy corners are available, or spaces like under the table etc. then those kind of places are such that are more likely to be peeing places. They like to cover their doings so if you can spot something being moved or piled somewhere, then that is probably the place.

When you do find the place, move litter box there. Cat litter that has added smell might be something too weird for new feral too.

I'm using sawdust, it does not cost anything to me, I just throw it away daily and replace with new one, time efficient, it does not hold smells very well (still better than cheap market sand), also it is easily carried all over the place, but cats like it a lot as it is so easy to dig. It is far from perfect, but such might be something feral might easier associate to something to pee on, it is soft.

Do you have open sand box or enclosed one? Open one might be easier, but placement of it should be far from food and such that it is bit side of everything, so he can consider it being hidden place.

If room has carpet, it might be something he associates to soft ground and can even pee under the sofa etc if there is such.

I kept dry food always available, I still do, then daily at same time I gave wet food that mine used to eat when outdoors, two or three days until they started eating normally I think it was, but while before outdoors they came to eat while I was giving food, it took months until they did that at indoors. It can be so huge shock, but eventually things get sorted out, my bed warmer took around two years until he got so used to that he started sleeping at leg end of bed, but he still is bit shy, even at times he comes to bump against my leg, he can easily run in panic to hide if I get up from chair at wrong moment. I don't think that in your case it will be quite as difficult, but so that you know how it can take really really long time for cat to come over the change in life. Going trough all the trouble is something well worth it though.

And indeed, 1st day sedatives make them bit more trusting, 2nd and 3rd day it is all the horror of being trapped with giants in same small area (the room), it will get better eventually, but takes a lot of time in some cases. Hopefully peeing will get to correct places soon as it is so very annoying to clean up that smelly pee.

What I would do based on what data I have, is just wait and see for few weeks, perhaps attempting different cat litter and placing litter box where he has done peeing.

It will feel really bad to hear and see him so lost, but given enough time it will turn to be a lot better than ever before, there is just that emotionally difficult long road that need to be walked to get that point.

Hummys said:

The smell is starting to travel out into the hallway... is there any magic to get rid of that?

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The biological enzyme cleaners should help.  Wait, I saw a tip somebody used enzyme washing powder/fluids.  It was cheaper than the ready made sprays, and working nicely, this too.  I suppose she wetted it and diluted...

And of course, his male smell will be weaker and weaker. He was no territorial tom, so it prob will go quicker than with a territorial, dominant tom.

Good luck!

Ohhhh I remember now Hummys!   I think I related my bookcase story on that thread too....guess hearing about a crazy cat indoors always makes me think of that big bookcase crashing over     Oh this does sound tough with Puss.   With my Patches it was easier because she was a reverted feral - I did know from neighbors she had grown up inside and was abandoned.   So being inside itself didn't terrify her though people and handling did and still does to some degree.    I'd agree with others that it is too soon to tell - it is really up to you.  

Forgot to add....based on what you've said about past interaction it seems to me there might be a natural limit that will always be there.   Doesn't mean though that once he gets over his fear of the indoors he couldn't still relax as long as you weren't too close.    Still others here have far more experience than me, so maybe they'll weigh in.

So my little guy has only had the equivilent of 1/2 can of tuna since Wednesday evening. He hasn't eaten in days. No water either. StefanZ, I made the pedialyte and he won't drink that either. Still not using the litterbox. Still hasn't moved from the center of the room, laying next to the carrier. I've been afraid that if I move the carrier to a corner, he'll be more upset. I can't get near him either.

I called the doctor this morning. She said that he could be dangerously close to getting himself seriously sick. She said for his own good to release him. OMG... I don't think I can do that. What happens then? This poor baby. I'm trying to help him and I'm giving him more worries. I'm at a loss. I'm really at loss with this. Has anyone heard of this before?

Wanted you to know and thank you for the support. Just reading through the forums has been very comforting. Would still welcome any input.

I think you must forcefeed him the pedialyte and watered wet food as he isnt drinking self  (btw pedialyte isnt extra yummy, it is just good for dehydrated)...  Wrap him up in a towel if necessary. Wrapped up he is helpless, and cease the resistance.

Or one helds, one gives if he is just a little reluctant...

Homeless are used to go hungry, so this non eating is not so dangerous as for a fat home cat. But not drinking he is now dehydrated and loses forces...

Have it warm in there, so he is warm, and can use the food,  and forcefeed.

OR release and hope for the best.  He wont go and die on his own. If he feels death near he will prob come back to you.

Good luck!

ps.   Usually it is easier, you are unlucky although you do everything right.

So dont lose your courage if you want to try with yet another homeless.   

I don't know what to do. Because of my fear, I'm not sure that I can force him. Or even get close enough to wrap. I understand that it maybe for his own good, but it seems so cruel. After the trapping, surgery and locked in a room for days, how would he ever know to trust me after that?  He's so frightened.

If we release him, is there any chance that we could try again in the future... or is this a predictor of what will always be?

Will try to calm down and think what's best for him. Thanks, StefanZ.