Bugs has been on insulin for 5 months now, he is now having problems with his back legs not working right. He is having problems getting into litter box and moving in general. I don't kno what to do, any suggestions please?

That is Diabetic neuropathy. When the blood glucose is not under good control it affects the nerves in the legs. Two things to do is to control the blood glucose and give your cats methylcobalamin which is B12. It must be the methyl kind.

This is what I have given my cat and it has done wonders.

Zobaline[emoji]8482[/emoji]- For Diabetic Cats- 3 mg x 60 tablets. It is especially made for our cats.

My cat is now OTJ (Off the insulin and in remission thanks to DCC. http://diabeticcatcare.com/

Old Meow Momma

Feline diabetes effects the nerves in the legs of our cats. Unregulated blood glucose is the cause. That is called neuropathy, even humans experience it.

The regular range of BG in a non diabetic cat runs from 70 to 100 blood glucose. If you have a non diabetic cat you can test them and see where their BG runs just so you will have the knowledge.

If you can regulate the BG and then give him methylcobalamin which is B12. It must be the methyl kind which cats can take.

My cooky is a diabetic in remission and had the same. This is what I used and still do. It is especially made for cats.

http://www.ilifelink.com/zobaline-for_diabetic_cats-3_mg_x_60_tablets.html

Good luck and if you can check into these, you won't be disappointed.

Thank you so much for the info. Just bought it..I hope to get bugs back on track. I test his blood weekly and it runs anywhere from 180 to 220. I tell his vet each time, he doesn't seemed to worried. I will take him to vet soon to re- check everything.. Again Thank you!

You might also consider reading through this website (and maybe buying Dr. Hodgkin's book). She is the U.S. leading expert on feline diabetes: http://yourdiabeticcat.com/

I second what LDG says.  Loads of info there.

I agree about the methylcobalamin. That's been very helpful to many diabetic cats with neuropathy.
 
But his blood glucose is hyperglycemic. and that is contributing to the neuropathy. Some vets still have the idea that we can't or shouldn't try for any better regulation in diabetic cats but that notion comes from the premise that the owner can't test the blood glucose, has no clue what the blood glucose is, so has to leave a large safety margin. But long-acting insulins, very low carb diet and home testing (more often) allow people to regulate the cat at a healthier level. ( Normal cat BG is about 50-100. I am not saying you should aim under 100 right away in your diabetic Bugs, at least not before you get a good grasp on how the insulin works in him . But with doing some more testing, you could try to keep it under 150 and that may help the hind leg neuropathy. I would start testing more often ( before shots, and sometimes in between in the middle of the cycle, and start doing curves once a week, so you can find out what is really going on, and try to get better regulation.
 

I don't think you should do that without advice from other experienced caregivers. I got so much help for my cat from the Feline Diabetes Message Board. There is tons of info on that site. http://felinediabetes.com/ and on the forum. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/The insulin that has had the best success in studies in cats (as well as masses of anecdotal evidence) is Lantus (glargine) , though Levemir (detemir) is similar. If your cat is on Lantus or Levemir I would very much recommend FDMB. ( Not that that's the only insulins used by people there ) here are some of their links about it http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581
 

Many cats also had a lot of success on bovine PZI. that is Dr Hodgkin's preferred insulin for her own Tight Regulation protocol (involving changing the dose on a sliding scale, according to what the BG level is that day), I think PZI became harder to get for a while but I am sure it is available somewhere, I know there are people using it. the diabeticcatcare people would know. That is a group that split off from yourdiabeticcat. Generally Dr H's protocol did not work as well for most cats on Lantus because of its longer action and overlap. but worked well for the PZI.
 

Also Dr Lisa Pierson has a good article on feline diabetes on her site http://www.catinfo.org
 

Best wishes to you and Bugs! I hope with some better regulation and with the methylcobalamin, he will get over the neuropathy like my cat did.

I just took Bugs's BG and it was 343....how on earth do I get this down?.. He is now on FF classics (wet) He seems ok, but I am worried. My vet told me to keep his level below 300, is that the norm??
 

I also recommend posting at the feline diabetes message board.

Have you tested your own blood with the glucometer? I ask because I had a bad glucometer once.

Is this the first insulin you've used? Has a blood glucose curve been done on your cat?

Hi, Bugs' person. Yeah, that's pretty high! My cat's has been much higher than that though.
Fortunately cats do tolerate high blood glucose better than humans. The main risk short term is ketones which can lead to DKA. (I will tell about that below, see KETONES.) I know your other worry is neuropathy. and getting his BG better regulated should definitely help with that. as well as getting the methylcobalamin that was mentioned earlier in the thread.

How to get his BG down? Well that is not something with a simple answer. It may mean he needs a higher dose of insulin, but sometimes it can mean he needs a lower dose! That may sound crazy, but if the dose is too high, the blood glucose goes crashing way down and then "rebounds" -- bouncing way up!
So you can't tell from just one number what is going on. So first you should do a curve. You'll need to be around for 12 hours. (Hopefully he is getting 2 shots a day?) For a "BG Curve", you test before giving insulin, then test every 2 hours up to the next dose.

?????? What kind of insulin is he on, how many units, how long has he been on that dose? and what was his starting dose?

?????Did you just start him on that FF today or has he been eating that all along? & has he been eating any other food? ( I am asking this because if you JUST changed the food to a lower carb food than he was on before, it may still change his blood glucose and insulin needs very soon. and I would wait a few days

FF Classic is a very good choice for carb level. Many diabetic cats do well on that. Wellness Chicken or Turkey are a similar low carb level. and for something on the cheaper end, Friskies pate style .

It's not the end of the world if your cat sometimes goes into the 200s or 300s, but I don't consider just aiming only under 300 to be the best goal. Just being under 300 is not normal or healthy. It is still the norm to some vets, but they're going from an old premise that the caregiver can't test the blood glucose, so they leave a wide margin of error. Since you are able to test, I would want to have a goal to at least keep him under 200.

Actually normal for a healthy cat is about 50-100 (this I am basing on tests on non diabetic cats of FDMB members, done at home so not affected by "vet stress"; it was an informal survey done several years ago.) . It IS possible to regulate a diabetic cat in that range or a bit higher, like 70-140 ( and it often leads to the cat's pancreas being able to heal itself so the cat no longer needs outside insulin). But you need more blood glucose data, and a long acting insulin, in order to safely do that. (BTW I managed to convince my vet of doing it a different way, to keep my cat regulated at a healthier level. For example I showed them the Rand-Roomp study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19592286 )

***But your immediate goal is to just get a better understanding of how the insulin affects him over the course of the cycles. While you're doing that, test for ketones to be on the safe side.

KETONES
Your biggest immediate risk is DKA which is a life threatening complication and very expensive to treat.
In the short term, one thing I would recommend is to get some ketostix. (Ketone testing sticks) which you can get from a pharmacy, to test urine for ketones. I was able to actually hold the stick in his urine stream , but there are other tricks, like catching some in a cup as he goes, or putting down some plastic wrap over the litter, hoping some urine will get caught on the plastic, and right after he pees, going and sticking the test stick in the urine. ( it must be tested within a few minutes because otherwise you may not get an accurate reading -- ketones are very volatile) If it goes higher than "trace" i would get him to a hospital. If it goes to trace , then test again later that day if possible to make sure hasn't gone up. and let the vet know the cat has trace ketones in the urine.
If his breath ever smells like nail polish remover , get to the vet.

***************************
I know all this stuff is very complicated.
Again I would really recommend you check out the FDMB forum http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/ sign up and post on the Feline Health forum, tell about Bugs 's diabetes, and might as well put in the things I asked about food and insulin.
I'm suggesting that because it has a lot of experienced caregivers who do this every day, talk to people about their cats' diabetes, and it's best to make sure there are multiple eyes seeing any advice.

You are about at the stage right now where I was when i first went there . Louis had been treated for months and was still not regulated well, was having trouble with neuropathy. was still having polyurina/ polydipsia , and I was very worried. I got SO much help over there to help my wonderful Louis get better. I'm sure a lot of the things i learned helped me to give him 6 more years of life ( and would have been longer if he did not get cancer. It wasn't diabetes that killed him.)
You already have a big advantage I didn't, that you already know how to test his BG.

I agree the most important issue is the keytones and to keep Bugs safe. That is why we are here.

Do you give Bugs any fluids? I would start adding a tablespoon of water or home made chicken broth to his meals. Chicken broth without additives...no can variety.

The more liquid you can get into him will help with flushing keytones.

With the high bg you will need to be more aggressive with the insulin and to do that it would be wise to seek help with his scale. Bid dosing only prolongs the bg. Many cats have been regulated and have gone OTJ(Off the juice) on Lantus. Learning the nuaunce of how the insulin works is a great help and can be taught by those who know it so well. 

If you are not comfortable with Lantus which works as a depot insulin you could ask to change to Levimir which has a gentler curve and is also a depot insulin.

I know you are worried and hope you will take the steps needed to keep him safe. That is why joining a group will be invaluable whichever you choose to help Bugs to better health.
 

I think BID (twice a day; usually means about every 12 hours) dosing works very well for most cats on Lantus and Levemir if you get the BG data you need and make careful adjustments to the dose to get to the right level. ( and of course , also have the cat on a low carb diet.) . I sure saw a LOT of cats go off the juice that way. and the cats who were in that study I put the link to, where 60+ percent (and 80+% off cats diagnosed within the past 6 months) went into remission, were on BID dosing.

There are some cats who are exceptions and some other strategies may work better for them.

Anyway Bugs, I don't want to get you even more worried about how complicated it is. You can do it. Like I said, you are ahead of where I was 5 months after my cat had been diagnosed.
You don't need to have an instant in depth understanding of everything related to feline diabetes all at once. You learn "on the job".

Right now you just need to concentrate on:
1. check for Ketones especiallly if over 300. (but I would check if over 250 if he doesn't eat much )

2. get some more blood glucose data including tests before each shot, some spot checks in the middle of the cycle, and at least one BG Curve.

3. Get some methylcobalamin ( Methyl B12) to help with the neuropathy. See Old Meow Momma's links for that. or you might be able to buy at some vitamin stores. you want the METHYL kind, not the more common kind of Vitamin B12 which is i think cyanocobalamin. The Methyl B12 is what helps the nerves. BTW this is a very good site from a woman with a diabetic kitty who had neuropathy in the legs and got better http://www.laurieulrich.com/jasper/

4. Join a Feline Diabetes forum if you haven't already.

:-)

plz tell me what BID is? Bugs is on I hope a low carb diet of FF classics and Friskies. I am so not sure what is low carb and not. i also boil chicken for him... plz help??

BID means twice a day.

At the felinediabetes message board you can find a list of low carb foods to feed. I had my old diabetic cat (gone away) off insulin for years due to their help.

Most of the FF classics are good, as well as some of the friskies pate varieties. Boiled chicken is low carb too (no seasoning).

There are very experienced folks there with regard to insulins. Definitely join and check it out!

yeah BID is just a medical abbreviation from the Latin words "bis in die" meaning twice a day. Like Peaches said the pate style Friskies and FF are the low carb ones. ( "Classic") Look at the ingredients and avoid the ones with wheat gluten. The "grilled" FF are like 6 times as much carbs as the "Classic" . There are some charts with the carb amounts. The charts are old, but I dont think Purina have changed the formula. This one has a lot of Friskies and has some FF Elegant Medleys http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html This is an even older chart with most the FFs http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodOld.htmlIf that is Bugs in your avatar pic , he is very cute. give him a lil hug. There really is a great chance he can be helped a lot.

According to Dr. Pierson food chart the friskies has a higher count for carbs

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

Old Meow Momma - THANKS!!! I didn't even realize Dr Lisa had made a chart with data from 2012! Boy,yeah! the Friskies has gone up in carbs from what I remember. Now that I think about it, I remember Purina did add "brewer's rice" to the Friskies. For my friends and relatives who feed Friskies, I'm going to suggest the Friskies Special Diet. & some of the FF is even higher carb than it was. Fortunately the Classic and Tender ones are still low carb. Bugs , this list that OMM linked from catinfo.org will be very useful .

Maewkaew-If you will check the listing of foods on Dr. Lisa pdf you will see a link at the bottom of page 1 a listing for ascending order of phosphorus levels.

You are welcome. Anything to help with our furbabies.

I hope bugs is improving for you.
 

Is it safe to feed boiled chicken to 'Bugs'? I am so confused on what to feed him.

bugs1966 said:

Is it safe to feed boiled chicken to 'Bugs'? I am so confused on what to feed him.

Click to expand...

It sure is! But only if you limit it to no more than about 10-15% of his diet because cooked, unsupplemented muscle meat is not balanced with the appropriate ratio of nutrients.