I'm totally frustrated over what to feed my cats.

I just can't seem to find the perfect balance of good nutrition that they will actually eat. They won't eat raw exclusively, they like it on a regular basis but not as their only food. They will just not eat it sometimes. So I've been feeding canned also. The problem is that the grain free low carb foods are invariably very high in fat. I've fed Evo 95%, Before Grain, Weruva and Wellness Core and recently I started Fancy Feast classic because it's lower in fat, higher in protein and still grain free free and still lower in carbs. 

From http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

canned

Evo 95% chicken and turkey 25% of calories from protein, 73% from fat but it's a great 2% carbs

Before Grain 96% chicken 31% calories from protein, 67% from fat, 2% carbs

Nature's Variety Instinct chicken 31% calories from protein, 67% from fat and 3% carbs

Wellness Core chicken/turkey/liver 32% calories from protein, 60% from fat and 8% carbs

Weruva paw lickin chicken 53% calories from protein, 18% from fat, 29% carbs

Fancy Feast Classic chicken feast 46% calories from protein, 51% from fat and 4% carbs

commercial raw

Natures Variety Instinct chicken, 25% calories from protein, 74% from fat and 1% carbs

Feline's Pride chicken 38% calories from protein, 61% from fat and 1% carbs

The thing that drives me nuts is that I thought I was buying the best canned food I could when I bought Evo 95% and Before Grain 96% but I'm paying a premium price for basically a bunch of fat. And it's the same thing with the commercial raw. My dogs eat prey model raw and they are eating better quality food, with better nutritional value for significantly less money than my cats. But my cats won't eat raw only. sigh

I just don't know what the best thing to do is. 

Melesine said:

The thing that drives me nuts is that I thought I was buying the best canned food I could when I bought Evo 95% and Before Grain 96% but I'm paying a premium price for basically a bunch of fat. And it's the same thing with the commercial raw

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Yup, I was pretty surprised when I realized that. The only commercial foods I think really qualify as "high quality" are Rad Cat raw and Feline's Pride raw and they are both very expensive. I find it far better to just make my own.

Remember though, cats do quite well on a high fat diet. I'm not sure what might be considered just too high. Maybe more than 60% of calories from fat??? Not sure...

As far as I'm concerned a diet of raw plus low carb Fancy Feast is a pretty darn good diet.

How long have your kitties been eating raw? I found that mine got less fussy about it over time.

Felines Pride raw is still 61% calories from fat though, as cited in the link. I'm not sure what the ideal fat % for cats is? I don't feed commercial raw, I feed prey model cut into chunks. I've been feeding raw to the cats for over a year.

You know, now that I think about it when I feed chicken thighs to them though, it probably is a good 60% of calories from fat? I don't feed all the skin usually just because it tends to separate from the meat when I'm chopping it up. Of course chicken hearts probably aren't very high in fat and the other raw foods I give them, are a mix of pretty lean to at least well marbled. So that 60% is probably on par to the raw I feed them anyway. 

hmmmm

LDG has links to a study of a feral cat's natural diet, and I think the natural diet is about 65% of calories from fat, if I'm remembering correctly (too lazy to look it up, LOL). Remember that fat has a lot of calories so saying that a food has 60% of calories from fat isn't the same as the food being 60% fat. I do think EVO is a bit too high in fat (I mix it with Friskies because I think Friskies is too low in fat :tongue2, but the others seem OK to me.

OK, I looked it up :lol3:. It's the Plantinga study, and it shows that feral cats naturally eat a diet that (on a dry matter basis) is 62.7% protein, 22.8% fat, 11.8% ash, and 2.8% carbs.

Protein has 4 calories per gram, and fat has 9 calories per gram. . .I don't feel like doing the math right now, but, roughly speaking. . .I think that's a bit less than 50% of calories from fat. Hmph, guess I was wrong. So, yeah, those foods are higher in fat than a cat's natural diet, but is that a problem? I don't know. Cats do seem to tolerate high fat pretty well.

I hear you Willowy. I'm in the exact same boat. I'm transitioning my cat Aria to raw feeding, but it's slow going. She just won't eat it sometimes, so I like to have healthy canned/commercial raw options on hand, but there aren't many that she seems to like. It's frustrating. I really hope I can get her to 100% raw one day.

OK, I looked it up 

. It's the Plantinga study, and it shows that feral cats naturally eat a diet that (on a dry matter basis) is 62.7% protein, 22.8% fat, 11.8% ash, and 2.8% carbs.

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Thanks, that was helpful. When I go back the catinfo link and look at the same foods by dry matter basis of the foods I listed above the Evo goes down to 41% protein and 49% fat and the Fancy Feast is 50% protein and 23% fat, the Before Grain is 44% P and 40% F.

Of the commercial raw foods I listed Nature's Variety Instinct goes to 39% protein and 48% fat. Felines pride is 55% and 37%. 

It's funny that of the canned foods the Fancy Feast classic chicken is the closest on a dry matter basis of the ones I listed.

Willowy said:

OK, I looked it up

. It's the Plantinga study, and it shows that feral cats naturally eat a diet that (on a dry matter basis) is 62.7% protein, 22.8% fat, 11.8% ash, and 2.8% carbs.

Protein has 4 calories per gram, and fat has 9 calories per gram. . .I don't feel like doing the math right now, but, roughly speaking. . .I think that's a bit less than 50% of calories from fat. Hmph, guess I was wrong. So, yeah, those foods are higher in fat than a cat's natural diet, but is that a problem? I don't know. Cats do seem to tolerate high fat pretty well.

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That would be approx 54% of calories from protein, 44% from fat and 2% from carbs.

But, again, cats do quite well on high fat diets. Personally I wouldn't be concerned if a food were as high as 60% calories from fat. I'd be annoyed at paying a high price for such a food though.

Actually, mschauer posted a thread about this, with a table that I believe had the calories from fat vs. cost. I'll see if I can find it. The one that looked best, as I recall, was the By Nature 95% foods. I don't know what the By Nature Organics look like, but they don't have carrageenan in them.

And the Plantinga study also has the info on an energy basis. :nod: The study itself states that on an energy basis, it's 52% of the calories from protein, 46% from fat, and 2% from carbs (so good job on the conversion, mschauer!)

Let me go find mschauer's thread...

OH! Just an FYI. I remove the skin and trim the fat. The analysis of the raw mostly PMR diet I feed, as analyzed by mschauer, is on a DMB basis 72.5% protein, 19% fat, and about 1% carbs.

The only real concern I'd have about the level of fat in the canned foods is the lack of omega 3s, which you can easily address by using a fish oil supplement of some kind daily.

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/245993/high-quality-canned-high-fat

Here it is - the link to the spreadsheet is in the first post.

Oh - if you want to read the study, the full report is available for free: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8404219

Thanks for the links. 

I just want my cats to be able to have the same level of nutritional quality as my dogs get. And ironically I'm spending 2-3x as much to feed 35 pounds of cats canned food than it costs me to feed 100 pounds of my dogs a raw diet. And the canned food isn't as good. I love my kitties and I want them to have the best but I'm afraid to tough love them into an all raw diet because everyone tells me it's dangerous for them to skip too many meals and one day they love raw and then next day they don't want any. sigh.

And this week after I bought 2 cases of Evo, they decided they don't like it anymore. sigh.

Well, I don't know if this helps at all, but my cats don't like the same protein fed from one meal to the next. In fact, it's best if it's not even the next day. The exception is hearts and gizzards, which they love. :lol3: For the first ... number of months, once we'd switched to all raw, I did have to use quite a bit of "toppers" for a number of them - either to get them started eating the meal, or to get them to finish the meal. But basically, I use chicken breast, chicken thigh, turkey breast, turkey thigh, pork, green (not bleached) tripe, gizzard, duck hearts, turkey hearts, beef, venison, rabbit, goat and quail, and developed a menu that rotates everything. And when someone won't eat something, I keep Stella & Chewy's freeze dried chicken raw on hand, because they'll almost always eat that - though I will always let them skip one meal (they get 3 a day) before I resort to letting them eat "off menu" (and I always offer them the scheduled food first, then with a topper, if necessary).

:dk:

If your issue is them eating, I think this is a thing many cat owners who feed wet or raw bump into.

My theory is either they are just not hungry.

My cats, adults and kittens are not guaranteed to keep their meal time.

If I put out their bowl before I leave for work, there is no way of me knowing if they ate it all 5 minutes out, or 10 mins before I get home.  (yea, I will let food sit out for 8 hours, shoot me   )

My other theory, the common one is the spoiled brat one.

My advice here (and I use it with my kittens and red meats) is add the ground raw to bowl, pour a can of fancy feast or a pouch (wellness, natures balance) if you can afford it (chunks in sauce are best idea, explained in a min).

Take your spoon and try to push some of the chunks from the can into the raw, but dont do a full mix.

The reason I like the chunks (or you could use clumps of patte) is my kittens who were so fussy and did not want to eat Hare Today lamb, goat, beef/venison mix I added a the wet food as noted, and came home to a bowl that was licked clean, except for those nasty chunks of mystery meat.

As soon as the kittens did that, I knew I was safe to fully transition them.

If that works for you, the next step I would do (if  they don't eat quick enough), crush a topper on top, freeze dried beef heart, and chicken giblets work great.

As to quality wet, I support high fat high calories products (NV Lamb is near 250 calories),  however it is the one product in pet food with the least transparency.

Not a single company produces their own except for Merrick, Evangers, and MAYBE Nature's variety, and maybe Diamond.