Alternatives to expensive Urinary SO food

beckbjj

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If you're referring to the Hills s/d, to the best of my recollection the first ingredient has always been pork byproducts.  My Quincy has been on a combination of that and Hills c/d for about a year and a half.  The c/d says it's "with chicken" (or "with seafood" if you get the other flavor), but chicken is a few ingredients down the list.  I know all the terrible things that "byproducts" technically *can* mean, but my theory is that if they really gave us a can full of hair, hooves, poop, and feathers, we would probably be able to tell the difference between that and primarily flesh-based byproducts.  So based on that theory, I don't necessarily shun foods with byproducts.  There's very little of a food animal that isn't wholesome, for pets or for humans...other countries and other cultures eat virtually every part and I'm in favor of that because I think it's wrong to waste something that's given its life so I could eat.  Putting offal and such into pet food seems like a good compromise, since as much as I'd like to live up to my convictions, I'm just not sure I'd like to eat tendons or eyeballs. ;-)

So anyway, for me, it's not the byproducts in the Hills that bothers me, it's the rice, corn and oats.  I did in fact end up buying a case of Dave's Restricted Diet Magnesium/Phosphorus for Quincy, and I have to say he is still peeing like a champ.  (I'm a nervous mother and watch him constantly when I can.)  I started out by mixing it with his Hills c/d or s/d, and I guess I had the ratio wrong for the first couple days because the poor boy was vomiting like crazy.  I think it's "too good" compared to what he's been used to, and just upset his tummy.  I reduced it to a very small portion of his meal, and then increased it more gradually, and now he eats it straight (with added water) and absolutely loves it.  Now I'm giving him the Dave's for four meals, then a meal of c/d or s/d, then back to the Dave's.  What I am ultimately working toward is six days of Dave's, then one day of s/d, and repeat.  That's the same schedule I had with c/d and s/d (six days of c/d then one of s/d) as prescribed by my vet.  FWIW, you can really tell the quality of the Dave's as soon as you open the can.  The first three ingredients are pork broth, pork, and pork liver, mmmm. ;-)   Quincy and his overprotective mom are definitely fans so far!
 

beckbjj

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Bonepicker, FWIW, three out of my four kitties have had issues with urinary crystals (either trouble urinating or, in the case of my boy, a blockage) while on various ultra-high quality, all natural (and in some cases even organic), grain free canned cat foods.  I did many hours of research in choosing their diet, and was certain I would avoid the problems with such great food, but sorry to say I was wrong.  I think there are a number of complicated factors that play into it...food quality, stress, water intake, etc.  I wish our little furry friends weren't so particular!
 

michi082704

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Nope, talking about Royal Canine S/O canned food, not hills. My cat got blocked while eating the Hills s/d it did not work for us. The issue is I had remembered the canned food seeming to be better quality than the dry and compared to some of the other canned food I was shown. I figure if I was going to have to pay of ton of money anyway, to try to get the best one. I hadn't remember "pork by-product" as first so I feel like the formula changed because I thought it was more chicken. I did look into it, and looking at older blogs were people were talking about S/O canned food, the ingredients are in fact different, used to be chicken and chicken liver first with less corn flour. I have no problem with by-product to a degree, but it should be reflected in the price. When you spend $175-$200 a month on canned food you expect it to be at least of decent quality. How is it Dave's a cheaper brand of food has better ingredients for a cheaper price? That tends to be my issue with quality and big name companies - what we are paying for and the level of it. Like I said, I too was feeding very high quality grain free food and my cats still have the disease, some cats just seem more prone to it no matter what you do. Plus I don't like when things changes and I don't know, I'm surprised they still like it. The one cat who would eat trash literally would not touch Hills canned with a ten foot pole. Hopefully he likes the Dave's.
 

beckbjj

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Definitely agreed on the quality vs. price thing, that just baffles me!  I've even considered writing Hills (since that's the one I had been using) a letter chastising them for that.  I mean, all that filler and garbage in the food and you're still gonna charge me $2.00 for a 5.5 ounce can?!!  So that's close to $6.00 a pound...I can buy a pound of top quality organic, grass fed hamburger for that!  Then I figured they probably wouldn't much care what I think, LOL.  They're making their money and because they're so huge and have all the vets backing them up, and I don't see that changing unfortunately. 

I hope your kitties like the Dave's as much as mine do; it definitely seems to be working just as well as the Rx food so far! 
 

rlavach

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Definitely agreed on the quality vs. price thing, that just baffles me!  I've even considered writing Hills (since that's the one I had been using) a letter chastising them for that.  I mean, all that filler and garbage in the food and you're still gonna charge me $2.00 for a 5.5 ounce can?!!  So that's close to $6.00 a pound...I can buy a pound of top quality organic, grass fed hamburger for that!  Then I figured they probably wouldn't much care what I think, LOL.  They're making their money and because they're so huge and have all the vets backing them up, and I don't see that changing unfortunately. 

I hope your kitties like the Dave's as much as mine do; it definitely seems to be working just as well as the Rx food so far! 
I 100% agree!!! It's just so frustrating. I also want to ask them why they even manufacture a dry formula c/d at all! At this point, I think there is enough evidence to say that dry food isn't good for cats with urinary health problems. But, if there are enough people buying it (like me up until a month ago), then they can make a profit! 

I've been looking at all of the high quality, low carb options mentioned here & reading their nutritional analysis. I see if they match the phosphorus & magnesium count on the hills Rx diet & it if does (often lower!) I get it. I know that low levels of pho & mag no longer seem to matter according to new data, but it's all I have to go by on those packages. He seems good so far. 
 

michi082704

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My one vet was charging like $2.50 for the Hills canned - I almost choked, seriously! Specially for the quality, like come on even if it is "prescription". What drives me equally crazy is where hills, nutro etc have like three different lines from lowest quality - better. I can't just help to think that you obviously know this formula works better but you still promote the lower ones too? 

This is a supplement I found that could work for you if your using regular canned but I just had too many problems to even explore this anymore, I did about a bottle but after 4k at the hospital I stopped trying to switch Bruce because he was never recovering. My other cat did just fine though, he had it very mild. Its a DL-Methionine supplement.  http://www.wysong.net/products/ph-dog-cat-supplement.php

If anyone thinks they want to try, I have a brand new bottle of it, if expiration is still good I can mail it to you if you PM me. I kept it thinking I try it again but it would be too much to use with a food that already has it, wouldn't want the ph to swing the other way. Better with a reg food.
 

angels mommy

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So sorry to hear your baby is going through this still. I am really hoping you can get Dave's. It's been a God send,...literally!!   I took Angel in, 2 months after being on Dave's Restricted diet formula, & am SO happy

to report that his ultrasound  was all clear, looked good,  & his urinalysis came back good too! 
 The vet was also pleased!  I will be sticking to Dave's probably for the rest of his life, (wanna stay on the safe side!)

I even emailed Dave to give him the report, & to share that his product was working, & that I was so thankful for it! I thought it would be good to share some positive feed back w/ them.

Dave was happy to hear the news, & said it made all the hard work worth it! 
 He asked if he could use my email & pictures of Angel i sent him, to share w/ others. (leaving off my name, etc..) & I of course said yes,

anything to help others, sense it helped my boy!  They are a great small company!
 

lotsaluv

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Actually, my cat had SEVERE flare ups of FLUTD for several years on an ongoing basis.  She had crystals constantly, blood in her urine, infections, calcium oxalate stones (had to have surgery).  The only thing that DID clear her up was the ROYAL CANIN URINARY SO both dry and wet.  My vet, which is a cat specialist with decades of experience, said there is nothing wrong with feeding her the dry since that is what she prefers (although I nowl give her a can a day of the wet, too).  But, she ate only the dry for several years.  I'm happy to report that she has had NO flare ups what-so-ever for the last 4 years since she's been on this diet!  We even just did a major check of her urine and kidney functions and at the age of 12 everything was perfect!  Thank goodness for the veterinary diets.  By the way, the cans are less than $2 at petsmart with a prescription which is what the other brands that were recommended on this site cost, too.  And my feline specialist said NOT to give her any of those other brands when I asked her 2 different times because she said that cats DO still get FLUTD on those foods, too, and it just depends on the cat and their body (how their body produces urine in the bladder).
 

bonepicker

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Bonepicker, FWIW, three out of my four kitties have had issues with urinary crystals (either trouble urinating or, in the case of my boy, a blockage) while on various ultra-high quality, all natural (and in some cases even organic), grain free canned cat foods.  I did many hours of research in choosing their diet, and was certain I would avoid the problems with such great food, but sorry to say I was wrong.  I think there are a number of complicated factors that play into it...food quality, stress, water intake, etc.  I wish our little furry friends weren't so particular!
How old were they when it started? What did you feed them wet and dry both? What brands?
 
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janet k

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My little guy just had his second bout of blockage. After the first, we switched to an all wet, grain free Weruva diet with no fish flavors. However, three weeks later he went back for a blockage so it was not enough. He just got home last night and is now on the Royal Canin Urinary SO wet and dry food. Chewy.com seems to have the best price from what I have found so far- not much more expensive than the Weruva I was purchasing... however the ingredients aren't as appealing to me. But... if it keeps him from blocking up again, then it is worth it.

How is your little one doing??
 

nachokitty

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Hello! I noticed ingredients are different from those listed in your post for Royal Canin Urinary SO. This what I see today...note the absence of "wheat gluten" (for those owners who are celiac):

Ingredients: Chicken Meal, Brewer's Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Corn, Chicken Fat, Natural Flavors, Soy Protein Isolate, Powdered Cellulose, Salt, Dried Egg Product, Brewer's Dried Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, Fish Oil, Sodium Bisulfate, Vegetable Oil, Taurine, Choline Chloride, DL-methionine, DL-alpha Tocopherol Acetate (source Of Vitamin E), Niacin Supplement, Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement (vitamin B2), D-calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (vitamin B6), Vitamin A Acetate, Thiamine Mononitrate (vitamin B1), Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Marigold Extract (Tagetes Erecta L.), Zinc Oxide, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite And Rosemary Extract Preserved With Natural Mixed Tocopherols And Citric Acid

The above is what is posted at petsmart.com. I tried to check it with RC, but they won't let me see ingredients on their site!! (Infuriating--I wrote to them asking for confirmation). My own bag, which I *think* has expiration date of Aug 2015, has no wheat gluten listed.

If possible, I suggest an edit or at least a warning of possible change in the initial post. This post came up in a Google search for "RC Urinary SO feline ingredients" and I would think the owners of the site would not want to spread misinformation.

Sincerely
NachoKitty
 

nachokitty

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An My cat had a serious scare with crystals. It was caught at the vet office and supposedly fixed. He was sent home on a holiday weekend only to be rushed to an emergency vet a day or so later. They wanted to do an expensive surgery with a low probability of a positive outcome. (Their assessment of this surgery!). I called the owner of my original vet office --I was so upset they gave me his home number--he treated my cat with medication to keep his urethra open for a week or so and we went on Royal Canin urinary SO. That was at least 7-8 years ago. He ate RC wet for awhile, but eats almost any wet now, with just the RC urinary SO for dry. That vet is one of my heroes!
 

sibohan2005

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I just found out my Jasper (5 year old) has crystals. He is curently in the vetrinary hospital with a cath in and they are flushing regularly. I am baffled by how he got crystals. I have him on "Lifetime Salmon meal and Oat" which is a grain free, gluten free food and I give him a teaspoon (heaping) of wellness wet every night.

They are recomending I put him on Royal Canin Urinary SO, but the byproducts in it make me think its not the best idea. Also it is expensive there is so much conflicting information out there I don't know where to start.

I know Raw would be ideal but I work wierd shifts and need to be able to supliment with a dry food. Ideas would be appreciated!
 

michi082704

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Sihohan,

I feel your pain, but really even with it being grain free and everything, dry food for cats is still not the most ideal because of lack of moisture. Specially for a cat with urinary problems. Also has more magnesium and phosphorus in dry because of how its processed, which is consider to contribute to urinary problems (makes urine less acidic). I've known so many male cats with urinary problems that I just don't recommend dry at all anymore, even a little. I would recommend the Steve's canned diet that people have pointed out on this thread. I am currently feeding canned Royal Canine S/O which is better than the dry counterpart. It cost $1.75 a day to feed a 13b male cat and I buy it online, scheduled to ship when I need it.  I was going to switch to the Steve's but I have decided to make their food using Balanceit.com or buy Primal Raw. It just requires that I have multiple vet appointments set up to make sure its working and haven't had the chance, as its a big deal for my one cat who has it severe. He had surgery to flush his bladder and no food or meds were working. 

If you want to do raw, you can buy pre-made mixes. I have been feeding primal raw to my dog for six years and she is extremely healthy, never a single issue. All you have to do is put a few days portion in the fridge to defrost and take out for feeding time. I priced it out and Primal Raw is actually slightly less to feed than the Royal Canine S/O canned. In terms of your weird schedule, you can do smaller multiple feeding of the raw. It is not a bad thing or anything to vary the time you feed him so long as he doesn't go too long without food. You don't have to feed at the same time everyday, if its an issue of double shifts etc, maybe you have a neighbor willing to feed him on occasion?
 

michi082704

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Also to note that the one vet I switched to doesn't even carry the Hill's urinary formula or recommend it. So if they are saying Royal Canine its at least the best option prescription wise at the vet. Hills is also twice the price believe it or not for their canned food and its even worse ingredients. Above all which ever you choose make sure to do follow up urine test every month for a few months to make sure its working. I also now use Dr Elsey's Senior Cat littler, it helps prevents UTI and kidney problems. The liter is also white and blue, so you can see if there is blood in urine because of it. 
 

angels mommy

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I understand, I have been there. Twice in 2012!   I'm not sure how the food you are feeding is grain free, but has oat in the name. that's confusing. Are you sure it's grain free?? Fish is also not ideal for male cats, especially w/ urinary issues, because of the minerals. I know you said you wanted to try & still do some dry food, but It  should really, really be avoided.  It's only going to make it worse.

As far as the Rx food from the vets, I HAD to go this route too. I didn't like the ingredients at all either, so tried other natural, grain free, etc.. foods, BUT, they didn't work. The pH HAS to get back to normal to stop making the crystals, & has to stay there. After finally putting him on the Rx food, he had a clear ultrasound in 3 wks! I was SO upset w/ myself that I didn't do it earlier, & my baby could have felt better sooner! 

My vet is great, & knew how I felt about the ingredients, so she looked at the labels on all 3 of the urinary formulas they had. (Royal Canine, Science diet? & Purina)  The Purina had the the least of the bad stuff, as much as possible, so she recommended that one. He was on the WET Purina SO UR for a little over a yr. & did so well on it. After going through a UTI, & cystitis twice in one yr, I didn't want to take any chances, & kept him on it.

It was cheaper than the vet bills! (& all the follow ups!)  She also put him on Dasequin. that is a joint supplement they have, but it was for the bladder inflammation. I did find a formula on line that is the same thing, for MUCH cheaper! Cosequin. I have found the best price either on amazon, or Entirely Pets.com. So, if they recommend that for him, get it on line instead, the vets is usually over 30.00! vs/ 16.99!

After being on the Purina UR for over a yr. I wanted to find something healthier for him, but that would still address his needs. Even though his follow up ultrasounds & urinalysis were all good, I wanted to keep it that way!  (Just to stay on the safe side! I am still paying care credit for all of that, & a trip to the ER the second episode on Christmas day that year!)  

So, I do highly recommend a Rx food for a while to make sure he's in the clear. (most go a yr. on it)

When I was ready to find a better food, but one that would still be o.k. for his pH,  I was blessed to find this at a great local natural pet food store we have. 

It's Dave's Pet Food. Below is the link to the formula they created to be like the urinary formula. They are a great small company. I even emailed them to thank them & tell them Angel's story, & why I bought it, & Dave himself emailed me back!  Made him so happy they are making a difference, & said it made it all worth it,  
 & asked if he could share some of my letter on their Face book page.

Sorry this got so long, I just wanted to share all the advice & info I had w/ you, since I have been through it, & I got so much support & advice here when I was going through it.

I hope it helps!  Best of luck, & keep me posted. I will say a prayer for your baby!

OH, I also forgot to mention that the vet had me add a little purified water in w/ his food, even though it was wet, just to get any extra water. I used water from my PUR filter. (I still do it)

(I did have to do saline IV fluids the 2nd time, every other day in the beginning, to help keep his bladder flushed. 2 bags worth. about an inch & 1/2 of fluids from the bag)

(If you look in my pictures, you will see)

Here it is on Chewy.com

http://www.chewy.com/cat/daves-pet-food-restricted-diet/dp/101617

Here is the cosequin. It was given every day until the vet said the inflammation was gone, then I kept him on it for maintenance every other day, as the label says, for joints, since he is about 11 yr. now, even though he hasn't any problems, just as an early preventive.

http://www.chewy.com/cat/nutramax-cosequin-capsules-joint/dp/101450    

Feel free to ask me anything if you need. I will try & help, if I can. 

Kelly
 
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michi082704

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Angel's Mommy, - Your right its DAVE's totally not "Steve's" thats the one I'm talking about, I knew it was someone's name. Thanks for linking it so she can look at it I couldn't remember but I know a lot of people have had success. Bruce is at a year stable too and I agree you need to get over all the hurtles first. I also give cosequin my vet recommended, chewy really has the best customer service. I love them.
 

angels mommy

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Your welcome, & yes they do!  I however am fortunate to be able to buy it locally at a natural pet food store here. The owner & staff there are great as well! They are the ones who introduced me to Dave's.

They are very knowledgeable, unlike staff at the big stores, & I love them!  She even gives a little discount for buying a case. It's like one can free, but anything helps! 
 
 

bonepicker

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Bonepicker, FWIW, three out of my four kitties have had issues with urinary crystals (either trouble urinating or, in the case of my boy, a blockage) while on various ultra-high quality, all natural (and in some cases even organic), grain free canned cat foods.  I did many hours of research in choosing their diet, and was certain I would avoid the problems with such great food, but sorry to say I was wrong.  I think there are a number of complicated factors that play into it...food quality, stress, water intake, etc.  I wish our little furry friends weren't so particular!
No kidding, you gave no dry at all and still had problems? Do you have well water? How old were they when it started?
 
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