Day 3 with feral cat, advice and opinions?

Background: My wife and I bought our first house 6 months ago and the previous owner had occasionally fed a stray.  My wife is an avid cat lover, and she quickly adopted the practice of feeding the stray cat who would come around every morning and evening for food and eat while we watched.  Last Friday, we noticed he was limping badly and by Saturday he could barely walk 20 feet without stopping to rest.  My wife was moved to nervous tears by the plight of our stray (we are calling him 'Fitz' now).  We agreed to get him care, and contacted a local shelter for a trap.  Baited by smelly sardines, we caught our stray the first night (Sunday Feb, 3, 2013).  Monday morning, we took him to our vet and found out that he had several puncture wounds in the leg and neck and the wounds were swollen and infected.  The vet gave him a strong antibiotic, cleaned and closed the wounds, and neutered him.  Last evening, I bought a large dog crate (4ftx3ftx3ft), outfitted it with a small litterbox with a liter/soil mix,food, water, a soft bed, many pee pads, and a couple toys.  We picked him up from the vet, put this setup in a spare room and coaxed him out of the trap into the larger crate and that ended last nights adventure.

Where we are now:

Fitz has stopped growling at us when we feed him and has not made any attempt to get out of the crate.

Fitz is completely apathetic (understandable given his vet trip).  He does love his new cat bed, however.

Ftiz used his litter box last night, so I think he knows whats going on with that.

Fitz has made the spare room smell like an unholy pee palace. He isn't peeing on the floor of the crate, but I think he smells our other cat in the house and is marking teritory by spraying out the sides of his crate. ( i haven't seen this, but man it smells) 

My Questions:

1.  What is the best way forward in socializing him from this point?  From what I have read, I should basically be avoiding him for the next few days, except to feed him. Should I build in a few more days to recover from surgery before spending time in the room with him?

2.We have an old sheet covering the top of the crate, but not the sides.  Does the crate need full coverage on all sides to give the sense of security?  Should we be covering the whole thing up?

3.  I hadn't read the advice about putting smelly personal items into the crate before this adventure started.  Is it too late?  Should I put some gym socks in the cage near his bed tonight?

4.  I've seen a lot of people suggest classical harp music for socialization.  Is this the point I would start using it?

4.  What advice do you have about ending / handling spraying?

5.  In general, do you guys see anything wrong with the path we are taking so far?  

Lastly, thank you for the advice!

David

Oh how wonderful of you to adopt this kitty! :rub:

1) The smell of his peeing and spraying is going to drop dramatically as soon as the hormones cycle out of his system. When we rescued a 3-4 year old feral, it took three/four days before the scent of his pee toned down(though it can actually take about a month or more for the hormones to completely cycle out of his system). If you're not seeing spray spots, he may not actually be spraying. It could just be on the sides of his litter box? Or he's peeing over the side of his box, not actually intentionally "spraying." ?? He may need a really tall-sided litter box. This wouldn't be at all unusual. One of our cats is a reallly "high" pee-er, and we use those cheap, sterlite storage boxes with the top off as a litter box. ....Tom Cat pee scent is VERY, very strong.

2) Harp music may be very helpful. That's something you can try any time.

3) Yes, it would be best to cover the sides of his crate as well. The idea is to make it feel like a hidey hole. Do leave the front open - or at least part of it so he can see out.

4) Always a good idea to knock on the door of the room to let him know you're coming in.

5) It is SO not too late to use scent to help him! Better than your socks - sleep/exercise in an old t-shirt you're willing to give up, get it really good and sweaty. Put it under his food dish. The idea is not just having him get used to your scent, but to get him associating your scent with good thing (food!). You can get another one sweaty, and leave treats on it for him every time you leave the room.

Routine, talking to him to tell him everything you're doing and why are the keys here. :nod: Spend as much time in his room as you can - ignoring him. Sit on the floor so he can see you. Read to him from a magazine or book you're reading. Work, on a laptop. Iron, sew, work on a puzzle... whatever you can think of to do, do in there. Just let him get used to your totally, completely non-threatening presence that has absolutely no interest in him - other than seeing to his needs: making sure he has food, clean water, clean litter, etc. (And doing all of those things on a schedule, same times every day). Routines really help them build the trust. :nod:

Here's an article I wrote on socializing a feral, hopefully it will help. :rub: http://www.catnipchronicles.com/may2012/laurie.htm

on top of what LDG advised there are a couple of things that i have found helpful;

put one of the hard shelled carriers in the cage. the reason for it was to provide a nice "den" for the cat to hide in when it felt scared/stressed early on in the process. i used one of the larger ones and bought a fitted foam "egg crate" style pad ( http://www.petco.com/product/113750...edic-Dog-Mat.aspx?CoreCat=Accessories_Product) for inside the carrier. i then put some towels on the top of the carrier so the cat could sit on top of it comfortably.

you didn't mention, but is the crate on the floor? if so, try placing it up off the ground - on top of a table or desk. it can help the cat feel more at ease since it is more on "your level". plus it makes it much easier to clean and is a lot more comfortable for you to spend time sitting in a chair with it.

as LDG said, keep the ceiling and all three sides covered with a sheet. what i have done is as time passed i pulled the sides back a little bit so as to give a wider view for the cat. with my first one i did not pull it back at all until she came out of her den (carrier) while i was in the same room and i only exposed about four more inches on the two sides. after that i just exposed a little bit more every week or so until only the top was covered.

you know that book you have been wanting to read for a while? well, now is your chance . my first one got to learn all about lab 257 as well as about dean karnazes as i read books aloud to her. that was on top of numerous trade magazine articles - yeah, those seemed to put her to sleep.


great work and thank you for what you are doing!

Hi David You and your wife have good hearts and thank you for what you are doing for this cat. I don't have much more to add to the already great advice above but want you to know that you are in for a wonderful and rewarding process. I can also vouch for spending as much time as possible in that room without focusing on the cat such as computer work, reading, TV watching, crafts, etc. and talking quietly about your day. Keep us posted on your progress as I am sure it will come. OH and MUCH MUCH PATIENCE needed.

Thank you for the advice,

A couple comments:

1. I put an undershirt under his food last night.  He didn't seem to notice, but maybe I couldn't tell.  I was trying not to pay attention to him

2. The room still smells terribly, but less terribly than the day before.  

3. You-tube harp music on laptop speakers is probably not as soothing as it could be.

I've been working on my MBA at night (have 6 months left), so I have plenty of reading / laptop time in the evening.  So, last evening I spent three hours doing my homework in front of the cage.  At first he ignored me and the food.  After an hour he ate, then sat down at the front of the cage and stared at me for about 30-45 minutes.  I ignored him until the end of the staring, and then I took a break from studying, got a string toy out and ran it back and forth in front of the cage (in striking distance of where he was).  His eyes followed it, but that was about it.  When I gave up and went back to studying, he pooped and went to bed.  The picture below is him just as I was wrapping up my work.  


I don't have a table in the room, and I tend to lie on the ground when I work on my laptop, so I will probably keep it on the ground.  If things don't progress, I will consider getting one off craigslist for the room.

A couple more questions: 

1. When is it good to transition from cage to full room?  The room is empty save for the crate and a cat tree that our original cat does not care for at all.  My instinct is to try in 2-3 days after most the healing is done and he is off his pain meds.  Are there some specific milestones I should be looking for?  

2. Any idea what the 30-45 minutes of point blank staring from about 2 feet away was about?

3. I had covered 3 sides first thing last evening, but then opened the back to put a air freshener near.  He uses the litter box but has poor aim and has hit the sides of the box (and over) a couple times.  He probably needs a bigger box but I cant fit one in there.  I am thinking about ordering one from Amazon today for when we transition him from the crate to the larger room.  Anyway, since it backs up to a wall, do you think that is problematic to have the backside open?

4. My original cat has been on his best behavior since this started.  Fitz, (and Grimace, our original cat) often stared at each other out the window for an hour or so a day.  So, as silly as it sounds, we sort of thought of them as friends.  Grimace is usually somewhat aloof, but since this weekend he has been attached at the hip.  He slept on my chest/neck last night (which has never happened before).  It seems like possessiveness?  Should I be concerned about future attempts to socialize the two of them?

And just because I like sharing pictures, here is what Grimace looked like in October.  You cant really see it in this picture, but he got his name from the fangs that protrude out of his mouth a little bit.

I love Grimace! SO handsome! :love: (He looks soooooo soft!!)

We actually discussed the crate vs room method of socializing in another thread. ( http://www.thecatsite.com/t/253752/socializing-ferals-crate-vs-room ) I've never used a crate, but the room will need some hidey spots for him. Boxes turned on their sides, facing various directions are always good "cover." Basically, what you're setting up is his "safe" room. This will be established as his territory, until he feels safe and comfortable. At that point, if you're really into it, you can replace his door with a screen door, to work on introductions between Grimace and Fitz. That's not a necessity or anything, just a great method for helping ensure introductions go more smoothly. For right now, don't worry about cat meeting cat. There's no way to know how things will go. If Grimace were sitting obsessively outside Fitz's door, hissing and growling, then I'd say it's going to take quite some time. :lol3: But even then... there's really know way to know.

FYI, we've always had the best success introducing new males, especially with other males. Our females are the pissy ones. We can talk about the cat intros later - in the end, it's not at all about them "meeting," but about them learning to share the same territory. And with Fitz as the "invader," your focus will need to be on Grimace. Just start telling Grimace you got him a pet, a buddy, just for HIM, and his new buddy is going to mean all kinds of fun. (And then when it comes to it, you set it up for that to happen. Grimace needs to think having Fitz around means more fun, more play, more treats, more attention, etc. for him).

So yes... Grimace may be a little bit clingy. Let him be, and provide all kinds of praise and reassurance, and extra whatever-he-loves. :nod:

Sorry... went off track. Back to Fitz. I'd give it a few more days in the crate, only because his pee still smells. I'd get two litter boxes, actually. Being outside, he's not used to peeing and pooping in the same box, and once in the room, as you do not want him pooping or peeing on the floor, best to just give him two spots to use. :nod: I would definitely look for a REALLY tall sided litter box - and I do recommend once he's out of the crate not using a liner. Right now he doesn't have much of a choice about where to go, but you don't want to use anything that would discourage him from using the box(es). In fact, you may just want to head to Walmart or something, and buy a couple of cheap, large sterlite containers, and just cut down an opening on one side so it's easy to get in and out of.

FYI, he'll find his smell comforting. If you can... consider nixing the air freshener? Cats are very sensitive to scent/smell, and it can be irritating to them. What you'll want is an enzyme cleaner to clean up any "overspray" that has hit carpeting or the wall. His scent there will encourage him to continue going there. The best are Urine Off, Nok Out (only available online), or Stink Free. I think Urine Off and Stink Free are available at Petsmart? Not sure, we use Nok Out.

In fact... if you can afford it, you might want to consider using the Dr. Elsey Cat Attract litter in his boxes for a little while. I highly recommend this if you can swing it.

When you do let him out of the crate, I suggest just opening the crate and leaving it in place. Just remove the litter box from it.

The t-shirt. It's fine he didn't seem to notice. He can smell you on it.

The staring... he's just taking you in. Watching you - and that's great, actually! He wasn't trying to hide or cowering... he's learning quickly he can trust you. (Or he's "willing" you to let him out! :lol3: ).

I will say.. he seems very relaxed!

Gosh, have to agree with Laurie!!! On all counts. Also, love Grimace. :rub: I would not use a cat liner either in the cat box. It just gets all scratched up and shredded and even might frighten a feral cat into not using the box. Liners are not a good idea!!! Offer a couple or even three large open litter boxes when you let him loose in the room. You can always take one away when he is dutifully using the boxes. As Laurie mentioned, don't use an air freshener as cats are very, very sensitive to anything like that and it could make him ill. Let it just smell like him, don't try to cover the smell. Make sure when you let him loose in that room that he cannot hide under a bed or in a place that you cannot reach him readily and get close. Offer cubby type hiding places. Even a crate with the door taken off is a great one. You could even put one of those inside that large dog crate. That is what I use when I am socializing a crated feral. I always put a small carrier with the door removed inside the large dog crate. YOu can put something on top of the crate like a light blanket to cover the sides of the crate and offer a place for Fitz to come out and lay on when you are not in the room, of course. :lol3: He will become more brave over time once he starts to trust you. It take loads and loads of time. Some are quicker than others!!! Let's hope that Fitz is a fast one.

Good on you Dec76 for taking in Fitz!    Your thread is very helpful to me too as I'm cautiously pondering the idea of doing the same thing with a feral I'm feeding at some point.   That he's coming out and staring at you is a wonderful sign.   Have you read about the slow blink?   When you have eye contact you blink really slowly at them.   A relaxed cat feeling positive toward you will start to blink back at you - it's really fun.   Gives them the message that you are safe.     Grimace is adorable also!  

I'm rather discouraged at the moment.   He is fairly friendly, not growling when I work in the crate (cleaning, feeding, replacing pee pads), but at this rate I will have to return him to being an outdoor cat. We haven't owned this house long and the smell from the cat room is permeating throughout the house.  I clean the box 2-3 times a day, I've used a gallon of "stink free" around the cage.  The ceiling fan is blowing full blast with the window open.  I replaced his cat bed (he was spraying his original one). Still, the smells is overwhelming and is so bad it is waking my wife in the middle of the night (and our bed room is on the other side of the house).    I cannot guess what is happening that is making the room smell worse than the worst outhouse I've ever been in.  I am planning on moving the cage to the garage tonight, and I feel like moving the cage is giving up.  I mean, I can move a chair into the garage and study in there, but its not the same and I know I am going to lose heck of a lot of trust moving him. Any opinions on this?  Any other ideas?  I'm at wits end on this.

David

Hang in there. This is the really hard part.

For me, white vinegar is my go to every time the one remaining male (who refuses to let me trap him) comes inside for the night (usually bc hes hurt and needs to rest). Since hes not fixed, he marks everything in the room hes allowed in, and it is incredible how strong the scent is. white vinegar is really good at getting the smell reduced. I always do this after he goes back outside, so I dont know how he'll respond to it. But if you are contemplating giving up due to smell, you wouldnt have that much to lose.

btw, remember youve already done some very wonderful things for him, so if you have to move him back outside hes in a better position. I have kept feral males very happily in comfy cat boxes, adding instant hand warmers to them in the winter if you live where its cold. They still suffer, but not nearly as badly as they would otherwise.

Dec76 said:

I'm rather discouraged at the moment.   He is fairly friendly, not growling when I work in the crate (cleaning, feeding, replacing pee pads), but at this rate I will have to return him to being an outdoor cat. We haven't owned this house long and the smell from the cat room is permeating throughout the house.  I clean the box 2-3 times a day, I've used a gallon of "stink free" around the cage.  The ceiling fan is blowing full blast with the window open.  I replaced his cat bed (he was spraying his original one). Still, the smells is overwhelming and is so bad it is waking my wife in the middle of the night (and our bed room is on the other side of the house).    I cannot guess what is happening that is making the room smell worse than the worst outhouse I've ever been in.  I am planning on moving the cage to the garage tonight, and I feel like moving the cage is giving up.  I mean, I can move a chair into the garage and study in there, but its not the same and I know I am going to lose heck of a lot of trust moving him. Any opinions on this?  Any other ideas?  I'm at wits end on this.

David

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do you think that the smell is coming solely from his box or do you think he is spraying? if it is from the box try using pint pellets instead of "regular" cat litter. you can get it at most any farm supply type of store. the odor control of the pellets is, imo, far superior to any litter out there. plus, it is eco-friendly and very inexpensive - i pay $7 for a 35 lb bag.

I think its coming from his bed, the box, and maybe the sheets surrounding the crate.  I replaced and washed the sheets & the cat bed last night, put down about 1/3 gallon of stink free around the cage and then spent 45 minutes with him as it was bearable by that point.... However, it was as strong or stronger by morning.  It feels like the cat is attempting to overcome all of my attempts at odor neutralization, but he is otherwise completely calm and not aggressive.  The cat bed is shaped like a ringed cone with 3 layers.  The bed was soaked through with pee on the bottom layer and he lies on the 2nd and 3rd rings (near the top).   I bought him a new bed with just one layer... I do not know if he pee'd on this one, but there were 3 large pee's in the litter box this morning (he has been peeing in the box all week though).

He was fixed Monday, and according to the vet, he is about 5-6 years old, so.. it may be a long time before the neutering affects the marking.

It may be that the urine is in a location where you don't realize and so haven't cleaned it or has soaked into some plastic thing in the cage.   Could you buy an inexpensive black light?   This will show urine stains in the dark to help you see areas you may be missing.    For all I know the products already mentioned are way better, but I've always used Nature's Miracle and found it effective.    Good luck!

PS - Also that ceiling fan is circulating the smell like crazy.   You want a box fan in the window pointed blowing out - open the door to the rest of the house and a window on the opposite side so the smelly air blows out of the room and the less smelly air blows in.    Another option is an air filter with a carbon filter that removes scents - this helped me out a lot when I trapped my feral male and  he was in my bathroom for two days.   I had the filter in the adjoining bedroom, it's expensive but is a great investment in your health long-term http://austinair.com/products/junior-series™/test-healthmate-jr-hm200/

It really all boils down to whether or not you can handle the smell. :rub: Those hormones will cycle out, and you will be able to clean up the scent.... it's just an issue of time. :heart2: Of course, moving him out to the garage is an option - it doesn't mean the next step has to be releasing him back outside. It would give him the time to cycle out those hormones, and give you time to properly clean up any pee splatter that got into the carpet or something. :rub:

Very true Laurie     Thanks so much for helping us new folks when we freak out!   

Dec76, it's true this smell thing doesn't have to be make or break right now this second, maybe giving yourself some breathing room (haha) to sort this out is okay.   I'm freaking out right now myself, but I think we've got to remember unless there is a big deadline coming up any second we've got some time to work with things and the situation may change some in time too.

Another idea... instead of using sheets under his crate, what about large puppy wee wee pads? It's a more expensive, but easy solution. You can just toss those. And if his crate is near a wall, you can tack up wee wee pads there too. Just remember, to a stressed kitty, their own scent is comforting. :heart2:

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I thought I would update this and ask yet another question.

In short, I couldn't keep the cat, Fitz, indoor any longer as the house smelled awful and he would growl and hiss at my wife any time she entered the room. So, we let him out around 2/15/2013. I carried the cage to the door and as soon as the door was open, he was out like a bolt, running so fast that he ran into the basketball goal pole and kept going.  He got about 3 houses down the street before he stopped, turned around and stared at us.  After starting at each other for a while, we eventually went back inside.  We didn't see him again for weeks, and thought he decided to be done with us until about 3 weeks ago.  He showed up at our door at 6 am in terrible shape: limping on his paw again and severely underweight.  We've been feeding him regularly since and he has recovered quite a bit.  After a week, Fitz started showing up with a small black cat that, if we had to guess, would be his kitten (about 1yr old I would guess).  Fitz is protective of his food, except with this cat, and he looks very much like Fitz.  

So, here is a couple of questions:

1) Do male cats keep the company of their children?  Most of what I have read says that they have the tendency to attack their kids when little.  

2) This small cat is much more trusting and has let us pet him.... In your (collective) opinion, should we try to TNR the small cat with a trap as well or try to work on being social and getting his trust to bring him in?

As an aside, even though bringing Fitz indoors didn't work, we hate the idea of Fitz limping around the neighborhood without a place to bunk down. This weekend, I went to home depot, got supplies, and built a 2' X 2' X 18"  cat house for the two of them.  Hopefully they will adopt it, the paint hadn't dried yet last night to try it.

Cats are more social than we think and perhaps, having been neutered, Fitz has decided his son is a good companion. I would definitely make sure the son is neutered, too. I would then decide whether you keep him inside or not. (my guess is, he'll want to go back outside to his pal). The new quarters you've prepared sounds wonderful. Maybe Fitz's testosterone levels have gone down to the point that he'll be a more willing inside cat. Thank you for helping them!

I know I am bumping my ancient thread, but I wanted to give an update and get advice once again.

A quick synopsis of the previous events:

Its been nearly a year and a half since we started taking care of Fitz.  6 months in he was badly hurt and we brought him to the vet for surgery and a recovery stay inside our house that he was fairly angry about.  We let him loose once recovered and he disappeared for months and he returned hungry and very underweight a few months later.  A kitten started showing up with him and then stopped within a week or two. 

Since then, Fitz has adopted the cat house I built for him (especially this winter) and lives in our backyard.  Over Christmas I had 2 weeks at home and he began trusting me enough to pet him.  I don't think he even knew what to do, he stood stock still the first few times.  Since those first few pets, I've managed to convince him that pets are pretty great and I brush him every evening for about 10-15 minutes after feeding him.  I've managed to get flea and worm medication to him and he is looking remarkably more healthy (and a bit fat but that could be his winter coat).

Here are my questions:

1)  Fitz has three times taken a very light bite to my hand (never breaking the skin) when he gets overstimulated from the brush.  It is always after about 15 minutes of petting, he is usually in full purr and is basically on his feet passing back and forth infront of me to get one flank or another rubbed. After he reaches that state, and he does the mini bite, I stop petting him, and after 10 seconds he is ramming his head into my knee for attention again.  If I go to pet him again, he tends to take a whack at my hand with his paw (no claws out though).  I've been reading about cat behavior to better understand this and I was thinking that maybe he wants to play or maybe I need to just end the stimulation for the evening.   I tried a feather toy and tried string to play with him but it just scares him.  I am not sure how to handle this.  His body language does not match what the web says is an aggressive or agitated stance; however I  feel like I should not invite him in the house until I can work this behavior out.  Do you have any opinions on how to handle this behavior?

2) Which comes to my second question, I am curious about your opinions on trying to make him a inside cat?  I have a front declawed (adopted that way) indoor only older cat that is incredibly interested in Fitz and they look and play through the window all day.   He has shown interest in coming in the house, and will step inside and lay just inside on the mat for rubs. Fitz has been tested, neutered, and vaccinated within the last year during his surgery.  I am not sure how I would go about this though.  He has looked like he would come in an explore several times, but I haven't encouraged it because I am not really sure how to do it in a way that would be best for Grimace, my older indoor cat.  What are your thoughts?

Thank you,

David

Welcome back, and thanks for the update.
1) I think you need to end the stimulation early; I think he is displaying petting agression. It gets too much for him and his biting is his way of saying "stop". Some cats give hints that they don't want to be petted any more--flicking tail, ears back--some don't.
Playing is a good idea, maybe you could do it before you start brushing him. And give him a treat after play time--it mimics their stalk/hunt/pounce/eat prey/groom/sleep cycle outside.
Type of toy, maybe a ball with a bell inside, or a laser toy. Ritz is afraid of things that fly, so I drag along the floor a toy with a huge feather/mouse at the end of a wand (DaMouse is a similar toy). While Ritz doesn't like to play, she does enjoy this toy.
2) Regarding whether he'd adjust to being an indoor cat: hard to say with this and a lot of feral/stray cats. I would encourage him to enter your house and see what he does, but I would keep your other cat out of sight at least until you see how he reacts. And if he wants to leave, let him leave. Repeat as appropriate.
That's about all I know about introducing two cats, Ritz is an only cat and she prefers it that way. I'm sure some one else will post suggestions.