Hissing kittens

My landlord's cat recently had her first (and hopefully last) litter of kittens. They are now a few weeks old (maybe 4 weeks; I'm not sure when they were born), and are being raised by their momma in an protected, outdoor area.

A couple of days ago we were given permission to visit the new family and so we've popped in a time or two to admire the kittens and give some lovin' to their proud momma. Today I noticed that two of these tiny cats would hiss at my hand as I scratched their mother's head. She gave one of them a look and a sniff, then just ignored them as she soaked up the caresses. (I have to admit, it was all wonderfully adorable--the look of rapture on the mother's face as she got some personal attention, and the miniature hisses from the kittens that must've seen my hand as some kind of monster. ) Eventually the kittens settled down and started nursing.

I worry that the kittens won't be socialized since they aren't being raised indoors with people around. I'm sure it's normal for the kittens to hiss at something they don't recognize (like a giant human hand!) but is there something I can or should be doing to help socialize them? Will it help much to spend a few minutes with them a couple of times a day? How much should they be handled?

The owners aren't very interested in cats as pets; I rather think they see them mostly as convenient vermin control. They do treat them well and aren't negligent or abusive; but if there is something that I can do to help these kittens socially, I'd give it a try.

(On a side note, the mother's personality has totally changed since giving birth. She used to be totally aloof and would even run away if she felt we were getting too close--which we never did intentionally, but a couple of times she apparently felt cornered if we had to walk past her as we were going out. We always respected that and tried to give her space, and would offer her treats occasionally as a sign of goodwill. Now, she is like melted butter when we visit her and her kittens. She looks eager when she sees us approach and completely steals any attention we'd like to spend on her kittens! It's like she's not even the same cat. Amazing how motherhood has brought out such a beautiful personality!)

I agree entirely with your concerns.  If you want the kittens to be sociale, you must BE sociale with them. Handle them often, preferable every day. it doesnt need to be long or very much, but often and so they see it is something positive to be friends with humans.  You are lucky here the mom has turned around. She will be a strong ally now so it will be easier then with a shy mom. 

The owners have cats mostly as working cats, mousers. It is OK. Them being friendly with humans, will NOT stop them from being good mousers too. As their mom is a good hunter and will surely teach them. Cats dont need to be starving to be good hunters, it is almost vice versa...  So, the owners being decent owners and providing shelter and food, and you being friendly with the cats, will NOT stop them from being good hunters, if such is the wish of the owners.

One thing. You say you hope it will be the first and hopefully last litter.  Are they going to spay her? it is the only safe way to make stop more litters.

Tx for caring!

Welcome to our Forums!

Good luck!

ps. Yes, the hissing tells us they had hardly seen humans before, almost being on way to be small semiferales. Good you are beginning to befriend them!

Encourage the owners to befriend them too, it if is possible!   They will then hunt not just for the fun of it, or the food, but ALSO to provide food to their owners - but they do ONLY if the owners are friends with them, their Ma.  

Thanks for your advice, Stefan. Our landlord is a headstrong person and I don't want to start problems with him. But his adult daughter is very kind and reasonable, so she is the one I talk to about the care they give their cats.

Last night I explained to her what I had observed and asked if I could spend a little time with the kittens daily. I'm going to try to visit them two or three times a day now. As cute as it was to see such tiny cats acting "all grown up," I know it was likely motivated by fear (as opposed to instinct) and that it's a cause for concern. I truly hope that I can help.

I don't have much experience with kittens. Any rules for handling them? Aside from being gentle, of course. Will it be OK to handle them if their mother is out at the moment? I found out they are three weeks old, by the way.

And yes, I have explained before to the daughter why their two cats should be fixed. I broached the subject again last night and was told that they are planning on taking care of that as soon as the kittens are done nursing. She was surprised to hear that a cat can get pregnant again even while nursing... and I was surprised to hear they hadn't taken any measures to keep her from wandering.  I've also told her that the cat even can be spayed early on in pregnancy (in case it's necessary). I can't make them do anything, but as long as one member of the family is willing to listen to me, there's a chance that she can share her new knowledge with the others, and make a difference.

StealthKitty said:

I don't have much experience with kittens. Any rules for handling them? Aside from being gentle, of course.

Will it be OK to handle them if their mother is out at the moment? I found out they are three weeks old, by the way.

Click to expand...

Normally it would be a yes, no problem at all. Mom probably even appreciate the kittens have some extra protection when she is not there.

But here the mom is essentially a semi-ferale, although she is friendly with you at this moment. So it may be touchy.  Ie, she allows you handle them as long she is seeing what you do, and there is nothing unpleasant going on, even if they hiss some.

But if they begin to moan pitifully or so...

Wait a little till the little ones accept you too, and you arent risking shrieking and pityfully moans... So she doesnt rush panicked back, and loses confidence in you.

But with some preparations, it should go OK.   

....

And yes, you have right, they can be spayed also in pregnancy. it is not pleasant, but medically it is nothing difficult, not in early pregnancy.   I saw in a british veterinary handbook they even recommended inexperinced owners to spay in early pregnancy, so they wouldnt be risk they went to the vet when they were in heat.

As spaying while in heat, is possible, but more difficult and risky for an unexperienced vet.

You are on good way!

Good luck!

By the time she's done nursing she will likely be too far along to safely be spayed. Would they be open to you housing the mother and kittens in a spare room, or even a garage - just some place secure where she isn't out wandering?

This would also help in socialising the kittens.

missymotus said:

By the time she's done nursing she will likely be too far along to safely be spayed. Would they be open to you housing the mother and kittens in a spare room, or even a garage - just some place secure where she isn't out wandering?

This would also help in socialising the kittens.

Click to expand...

I would really love to foster this family. The problem is, when we were first thinking about taking our current apartment we asked the landlord if we could keep cats. He said that's not a problem, but to not let his cats into our home. I'll speak again to the daughter and encourage her to confine them in their own home. Meanwhile, I have some more questions:

How many weeks after giving birth can the mother be spayed?

How old do the kittens have to be before they can start eating solid food?

At how many weeks will we be able to tell their sex?

I've noticed that there is no waste in their nest. Seems I read once upon a time that the dam takes pains to ensure the nest stays clean. Is that so?

To clarify, the dam is not at all feral. Both of the cats are treated as pets, though in a casual way. The other cat accepted us immediately, and would even call at our door until we came out to give her attention. This cat, though, took her time in accepting our presence. I'm glad that she's finally come around. Even just a few days before giving birth she wouldn't give us the time of day, and the occasions when she was at our door eating treats with the other dogs and cat she would reluctantly accept caresses and leave as soon as her treat was gone. Now that she's caring for her litter, she's showing my husband and me a completely different side of her personality. Affectionate, attention-seeking, laid-back, happy. It's absolutely, wonderfully incredible!

Yesterday we went out twice to hold the kittens. The second time, there was less hissing and they settled down almost as soon as they were snuggled in our laps. They did start meowing after some minutes, at which point we passed them back to their mother, who promptly gave them a bath. 

I noticed that there is one in particular who was the most expressive with his (her?) hisses, so we'll pay special attention that one. We let him sniff our hands before stroking him, and we don't pick him up while he is showing his displeasure. I let him calm down before placing him in my lap, next to one of his litter mates. We also made sure to give attention to his mother as he was at her side in a position to observe--and she cooperated beautifully by purring her heart out the whole time. Also, one of the other kittens showed more curiosity than the other two, pushing himself (herself?) up on his little forelegs to look into our faces. Not sure he could see us all that well, but he sure made an effort!

1) How many weeks after giving birth can the mother be spayed?

Click to expand...

Depends on the vet.  Some want you to wait until the kittens are weaned, others will spay quite early.

2) How old do the kittens have to be before they can start eating solid food?

Click to expand...

They usually start at 3-4 weeks but continue feeding from mother for some time, and are not completely weaned for several weeks.

3) At how many weeks will we be able to tell their sex?

Click to expand...

You can usually tell straight away.  It's easier if you have both sexes in the litter.  Boys have a much longer distance between anus and urethra with an tiny empty scrotum, in girls the two openings are much closer togeather.  There are plenty of photos on the internet but be careful with the searches - you can turn up some you really don't want to see.

4) I've noticed that there is no waste in their nest. Seems I read once upon a time that the dam takes pains to ensure the nest stays clean. Is that so?

Click to expand...

She licks them to make them pass urine and faeces - at this age they cannot do that on their own - and swallows what they produce...

Thanks for responding, OS. Especially your answer to question 4, as we witnessed that yesterday and it made me remember what I'd read, but I wasn't quite sure.

About spaying, what is the earliest that it could be done, if they are old enough to be weaned and if the vet is willing? I'll pass the time frame along to the family so they can make an appointment.

Here's a photo I took today. No hisses since their mouths were already busy. View media item 145775
Anyone want to weigh in on their color/pattern?

It really varies with the vet, but the kittens have to be mature enough for her to be away for a few hours, and to cope in the very unlikely event her milk dries up afterwards.  So not right now, I'd say 5-6 weeks.  But really the vet hold the trump card.  Ring round, see what your local vets will do.

There happens cases when a mom is emergency spayed.  The vet tries to cut on the flank, or at least, not through the tits, in such cases.

Very often they begin to nurse almost so soon they come back. Or at least, in 24 hours.

But of course, crash emergency is one thing, planned doing is something else...  Usually it is done when they are 8 weeks, with an cat we can keep inside.

It can be done somewhat earlier if we must, like OS said.

I wouldn't do it earlier than 5-6 weeks, though as said you'd have to ask the vet.

Flank speys are not common in all parts of the world, it's my preferred method but not done in my state, though kittens can still feed after a midline spey you just need to watch claws aren't pulling on stitches.

I retired a queen who was speyed when her kittens were also done at 10 weeks, came home and went right back to nursing like nothing had happened, my vet does do small incisions though. 

As to the colour and pattern they look like brown tabbies. Likely mackeral tabby, though the photo isn't clear enough to say for sure. 

Thank you all for your advice. The cats have been moved to an area nearer the home, where their owners can look in on them and interact with them throughout the day. There was no hissing or any sign of fear or aggression when we went to see them this morning. We'll keep visiting them to make sure they are OK and continue to be laid-back about human interaction.

They are growing beautifully; I can't believe how much bigger they are than just a few days a go, and how much more active, too. One of them was wandering around the new nest, doing a little exploring and occasionally trying to engage his mother in play. The other two were busily nursing. I took a look and I think all three are boys, though they were squirmy and I couldn't get more than a glance at one of them.

Great they've been moved and will have more handling

They do grow very fast and learn new things almost daily