HELP!! Regurgitation and raw food (sorry for the long post)

Hi everyone! I'm new to the forum though I've been browsing it for some time. My kitten and I are having some major stressful issues for the past 2 months, so this is going to be quite the tale. 

Sherlock is a 10 months old domestic short hair. When I first got him, I was free feeding him blue wilderness dry food and 3oz of avorderm wet food. On Veteran's Day, he got feline lower urinary tract disease (he was 8 months old) and was not getting better even with the meds. I read up online about it and decided to cut him off dry off. He got better within 24 hours once the dry food was gone. I also (eventually) switched him to Nature's Variety's Instinct since avoderm primarily has fish-based flavor, and I had ended up switching him to an all fish canned food without knowing the potential dangers. I also switched his litter from Feline Pine pellets to Feline Pine clumping.

Around the same time as he got FLUTD, he started panting, but I thought that was either as a reaction to the meds or because he was so excited about his new toy. This went on for about three weeks until he started coughing every day at least twice a day and swallowing repeatedly. So I suspected asthma and back to the vet we went. I also switched his litter to Dr. Elsey's ultra clumping clay. The vet gave him a bronchodialator, but he didn't get better, so back to the vet for xrays. Vet didn't see any real signs of asthma and suspected it was more likely to be an upper respiratory infection so she also prescribed predisolone, an antibiotic, and panacur in case it was lungworm.

Meanwhile, I decided to switch him to a raw diet. I started by giving him a little bit of Rad Cat's lamb formula next to his canned food and he loved it. I slowly increased the amount of raw and decreased the canned food until he was on all raw as of around Christmas. I then started making my own raw food following Dr. Pierson's recipe (and Anne Jablonski's and the recipe on feline-nutrition.org). He made him a batch of chicken-only, which took some prodding for him to eat without adding sprinkles of FortiFlora, and then a batch of Turkey-only. I also got Feliway to try and reduce his stress, as well as an air purifier and got the humidifier going on. 

About two days after he he seemed to get over the coughing (and was off ALL his meds), he started regurgitating. This was about 1 month after he'd been on all raw. He's now been regurgitating every day for one week. I've taken him to the vet, who, because he had a lot of hair in stool and I showed her a video of him hacking and gagging soon after he'd already thrown up, thought he had hairball. When she asked what diet I was giving him (I told her I had switched his diet), she started going on about how raw was not recommended and that it might be "too pure" for him and that he should be on a "dry food diet for hairballs with wet food as a treat." She gave me some laxatone to give him, which I am not very pleased to give but am doing so anyway since I just want him to get better.

I HIGHLY doubt that the problem here is his diet. And I sure as heck am NOT going to give him dry kibble. So I switched him back to NV Instinct last night (though he threw up again) and this morning I decided to give him .5oz at 6am, another .5oz at 6:45am, and 1oz at 7:30am. I left the house at 7:50am and he had not thrown up. We'll see what happens when I get home tonight. He has an appt tomorrow for a follow up in case he was not better, but that would involve dropping him off and leaving him at the vet's all day and I really would prefer not to do that to him. 

So my questions are the following:  

1) Can cats be intolerant to raw food? Is it possible it's too rich for him??

2) Should I stay on the canned food for a few weeks and see how he does, and then slowly re-introduce him to raw food? (I have a freezer full of raw food I made (rabbit, duck, quail, pheasant, goose and venison/beef - got some variety from haretoday and thought I'd try it out, but then this happened.  He started throwing up with the Turkey, and has continued ever since. Should I switch him back to chicken only?).

4) Is it possible that I made the raw food wrong and that's what caused it? If I switch him back to raw, should I just get a pre-made meal?

3) Does anyone know of any good vets that advocate/understand raw feeding in the DC Metro Area that are also affordable?!?! I REALLY want to switch vets, but I make very little money and don't want to trek my poor kitten for 30min+ to go to the vet - This will only make him more stressed out than he needs to be and he is so stressed out as it is.

THANK YOU! I'm not really sure where to turn to anymore and just need some guidance...

I am not a raw feeding expert, but finally adding egg yolks to my cats raw stopped the vomiting. I omitted them initially since I was worried about some of my cats IBD and diarrhea.

Also, is he eating too fast? That may cause vomiting as well.

Aw, poor you and poor baby!

OK, my first question is - are there other vets in the area? It makes more sense to see a vet that's more in line with the approach you want to take. Perhaps try searching at http://www.ahvma.org to see if there's a holistic DVM you can get to?

My second question: just to make sure we understand, he ate100% raw food for a month before the reguritation problem started?

If that's the case, then I highly doubt the problem is the food. But to answer your questions....


1) Can cats be intolerant to raw food? Is it possible it's too rich for him??

If he'd been eating raw for a month without a problem, it's very unlikely the problem is the food. But yes, some cats can be intolerant to the bone in the raw food. However, if that were the case, the problem likely would have shown up a LOT sooner. The vet took x-rays? There's no blockage?


2) Should I stay on the canned food for a few weeks and see how he does, and then slowly re-introduce him to raw food? (I have a freezer full of raw food I made (rabbit, duck, quail, pheasant, goose and venison/beef - got some variety from haretoday and thought I'd try it out, but then this happened.  He started throwing up with the Turkey, and has continued ever since. Should I switch him back to chicken only?).

If he's been throwing up on all proteins, and was eating it fine before, I highly suspect it's a hairball problem.


4) Is it possible that I made the raw food wrong and that's what caused it? If I switch him back to raw, should I just get a pre-made meal?

I really doubt the issue is a difference between the homemade food and a commercial food.

...though something did just occur to me. Earlier I pointed out that some kitties are intolerant of bone. When did his regurgitation start in relation to your feeding homemade? I assume you've got a grinder that's grinding bone? And is the only commercial food he had before the Rad Cat? Because Rad Cat uses bone meal as its source of calcium, not ground bone. If he's having trouble with the bone, his regurgitation would coincide with the introduction of your homemade food.


3) Does anyone know of any good vets that advocate/understand raw feeding in the DC Metro Area that are also affordable?!?! I REALLY want to switch vets, but I make very little money and don't want to trek my poor kitten for 30min+ to go to the vet - This will only make him more stressed out than he needs to be and he is so stressed out as it is.

I'm not, but take a look at the link I provided above and see if there's anyone close to you. :cross:


Some of my kitties had hairball issues on raw - well - they had it before, but raw didn't resolve the problem for some of them. A number of us had this problem, actually. What we've done is purchase egg yolk lecithin - either Swanson's or Nature's Plus (those are the only two options). They're both 600mg. Nature's Plus is sticky and hard to get out of the capsule. Swanson's has rice flour, so is dry and easy to sprinkle on or mix in food.

I found that I have to use a full capsule daily for the two kitties with the issue. We started at 1/2 a capsule twice a week, then tried 1/2 a capsule every day, and then a full capsule daily. Hairballs are primarily hair bound with fat - the egg yolk lecithin emulsifies the fat that binds the hair, helping kitty pass the hair. For some, the addition of a fiber also helps. Several of us have been using slippery elm bark powder: 1/4 teaspoon mixed with a tablespoon or so of boiling water. Let it gel up, and mix in with food. I use this 2x a week for my "hairball" kitties, and this is working really well. For the others, just the addition of the egg yolk lecithin ( at 1/2 capsule daily) resolved the problem.

Also, re: the lung worm.... the vet should have been able to look at a small sample of stool under a microscope to determine if your kitty had lung worm. It's very common in our ferals here because of the number of slugs. I understand the treatment with panacur needs to be at least 7 days - did you continue to administer this at home? We always used a shot of Ivermectin to treat it (but, of course, we can't give the ferals ongoing treatment, and the Ivermectin clears it up with the one shot). Just info for your consideration.

So... do you still have some of the Rad Cat? What you might want to do is see how he does on the canned. If he stops regurgitating, then consider reintroducing the Rad Cat. If he does not throw up on the Rad Cat, try introducing your homemade again. If he throws up on that, you can be pretty sure that he's having an issue with bone, as that would be the principal difference. In that case, you can make your homemade raw boneless, using either eggshell powder, bone meal, or, if you can afford it, freeze dried bone.

You could also consider using digestive enzymes to see if that helps him digest the ground bone.

And if the reguritation doesn't resolve, then you should consider pursuing the hairball treatment with egg yolk lecithin, and slippery elm bark powder. (FYI, I buy it loose at the health food store - MUCH less expensive that way than in capsules, if you can find it).

Vibes for you and Sherlock!

peaches08 said:

I am not a raw feeding expert, but finally adding egg yolks to my cats raw stopped the vomiting. I omitted them initially since I was worried about some of my cats IBD and diarrhea.

Also, is he eating too fast? That may cause vomiting as well.

Click to expand...

I expect your homemade recipes include egg yolks. But it may not be in enough quantity to resolve the hairball problem. A friend in the UK wasn't able to source egg yolk lecithin, and she feeds a raw egg yolk three times a week as a treat, and that has resolved her kitty's hairball problem. So that's something else to consider, just using raw egg yolks. I forgot the reason a number of us were using egg yolk lecithin is because our cats don't like eating just raw egg yolk, let alone 2 or 3x a week. :lol3:

Hi LDG! Thanks for the response!

To answer your questions (to my questions):

1) Thanks for the site! I have checked it out, and there are one or two holsitic vets near me. I'll see if I can find some time to call them up and see how much it would cost. I'm still hopeful someone might have gone to one of them and give me a recommendation for one over another. 

2) He was on 100% raw for about 1 month (if not just a little under 1 month -  I think I got him on all raw around 12/19-12/20) when the regurgitation started. The reason I was skeptical it was the food is because he was eating 100% raw for, at the very least, 3 weeks before he started to regurgitate.

3) [color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]The vet took x-rays? There's no blockage?[/color]

The vet took an x-ray on 12/21 (about a month before) to see his chest for the coughing, but has not taken an xray since he started regurgitating. He's still pooping and as active as ever, so she didn't feel like there was a need for it when I went there on Monday. He also still has his appetite. But if he was still throwing up until tomorrow, I think that's what we'd do (get an xray). I'm actually very unclear what the vet wants to do on Friday come to think about it... She also mentioned that it could be pancreatitis, but I don't think it is... 

4) [color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]If he's been throwing up on all proteins, and was eating it fine before, I highly suspect it's a hairball problem.[/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Yes, he's been throwing up on everything. He started on the turkey, which he'd been eating for about 2 weeks with no problems, and he's since thrown up on duck, quail, pheasant and rabbit.[/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]5) [/color][color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]When did his regurgitation start in relation to your feeding homemade? I assume you've got a grinder that's grinding bone? And is the only commercial food he had before the Rad Cat?[/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Well, let's see. I started feeding him Rad Cat around the first or second week of December, and switched him to homemade as of 12/22/12. He started regurgitating on 1/17/13. And yes, Rad Cat is the only commercial food he had and I do have a grinder and grind the bones into his meal. And i also add 4 egg yolks to the supplement mix.[/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]6) [/color][color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Hairballs are primarily hair bound with fat - the egg yolk lecithin emulsifies the fat that binds the hair, helping kitty pass the hair. For some, the addition of a fiber also helps. Several of us have been using slippery elm bark powder.[/color]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]I add psyllium husk to the supplement mix (I was adding 2 capsules, so 1000mg) though I did forget to add it to the new batch of food (not the turkey though, which is when all this started). As for the hairball, how did you know how much to use? How did you know when it was working? I have not seen a single hairball come out of him, even with all his gagging and regurgitation. But I suppose he might be passing them? If I use the egg yolk lecithin, I should use that instead of the laxatone, right? I'm not a huge fan of giving my cat petroleum anything and he's a smart cat and refuses to eat it (I put it on his paw and he licks it off, but otherwise he does not come near it)[/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]7) [/font][color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]I understand the treatment with panacur needs to be at least 7 days - did you continue to administer this at home?[/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]He had a 5 day treatment with liquid Panacur 2.2mg once a day. I got most of it in him. He's quite fiesty and he's VERY strong (he weighs 9.4lbs) so giving him liquid meds is a fight.  [/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]8) [/color][color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]You could also consider using digestive enzymes to see if that helps him digest the ground bone.[/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Oh? What do you recommend? And should I be sprinkling that with the food or adding it to the supplement mix?[/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]I think I might try the hairball treatment first and see how he does on that before switching him back to raw food. Maybe I should keep him on Rad Cat for a month and see how he does on it...? My only problem with doing that is that it's SUPER expensive. If I had more room in my freezer, I could have tried to make homemade food with bone meal, but alas. :-/[/color]

Dr. Pierson lists the egg yolks as optional. I don't know if the OP might have omitted them as I did initially, hence I mentioned it. Like you, I suspect her cat may have hairballs so I brought up the egg yolks.

He never seemed like he was eating too fast. He tends to eat a little, then go to the litter, then eat some more, then lounge around, then eat some more... But I decided to start feeding him smaller portions and waiting 45 mins between portions to give the food time to go to the stomach and start being digested (in case it was just too much food at once for him). He wasn't super pleased by this decision this morning when he only got half an ounce of food at a time, but he got over it. 

Now that you're feeding the smaller portions more frequently, is he keeping it down? And are you feeding him raw, or canned?

It seems like he's keeping it down for now. I've only started doing this today, but so far I haven't heard him or seen him throwing up the food (nor have I found any evidence of throw up in the bathroom, where he always goes to when he's sick). He's not very pleased about having to wait for more food and he's mewoing a lot, but I am holding out!! I'm giving him canned, just to see. If he's still good and not throwing up in a couple weeks, I might increase how much food I give him at one time. And then slowly switch him back to raw. Otherwise, I'll make an appointment with a holistic vet I think.  

Well, feeding canned in small amounts doesn't really help you narrow down the problem. If he's got hairballs, the small meals of anything would help keep the food down.

Personally, I'd treat him for hairballs, though as I mentioned, it is possible the difference was bone in the homemade vs bonemeal in the Rad Cat. But that you could figure out pretty easily by determining if the regurgitation started when you started feeding the homemade.

Right now I just want to make sure he'll stop throwing up and not have to go to the vet. But I agree, I'm going to treat him for hairballs. Where do you get the egg yolk lecithin? Do they sell that at Whole Foods or CVS? And how do I know when it's working? 

I don't know, actually, where it's sold in stores. :dk: Maybe there's a store locator on the Swanson website? I buy it on Amazon.

And I don't know how you'd know. I guess after you get it and have given it to him for 4 or 5 days, maybe try increasing the amount of food you're feeding him at one sitting?

And yeah, the regurgitating is hard on their throats, and they're not getting their nourishment...

Many vibes for your boy!!

I switched my 4 month old kitten from dry food to raw food in one meal. Maybe I should have eased him into it, but I was excited to put him on it after reading up on it. His first meal was some boneless, skinless chicken breast (the only uncooked meat I hAD in the refrigerator). I finely chopped some celery and cabbage to go with it, and he gladly ate the whole thing. After breakfast, I went to the farmers market, and the local meat stand was selling organic, grass fed, blah blah blah beef "pet food" with ground muscle and organs. Well, my cat threw this up for 3 meals in a row. I was scared hee was getting sick and not enough nutrition or even dehydrated, but he kept playing and running around like normal so I didn't worry too much. I bought him a fresh, wild, sardine for his next meal (btw he gets lunch and dinner, 12hrs apart). He ate the while thing and kept it down! Since then I have fed him chicken (his favorite) fish, lamb, and even soft boiled eggs in a pinch. I cut the, raw meat up fresh every meal, and shop for a mix of muscle and organ meats about every 4 days so it is fresh. I guess what I am saying is, sometimes you gotta try new foods for your pet to try. Either it was the ground meat that made him puke, or he just doesn't like beef, but I won't give either to my cat for a while because I hate cleaning the stains out of my carpet.
Also, I guess it makes sense my cat wouldn't enjoy eating the beef or lamb, because he would be too small to hunt it in the wild! He likes chicken and sardines best
Also, raw food doesn't have to be expensive. The sardines I buy ate about.50 cents each. And I just got a whole chicken 4 days away from it's "eat or freeze by" date for $3.50. He is eating the last half a chicken breast for breakfast tomorrow. It surprises me how much meat they eat!

Also, eating raw doesn't have to be expensive. It get the sardines for about .50 cents each. Or a whole chicken 4 days away from the "eat or freeze by" date for $3.50! He can finish a whole chicken in 3 days

Tinypetowner, some proteins need a slow introduction. Red meats are often like that, beef especially. If you feed a meal of a new protein and kitty regurgitates, it's best to give it a few days, and try again - only limit the amount of the new protein to a few bites of the meal. If that stays down, then the amount of new protein can slowly be increased.

Our Sheldon can't handle any red meat - or organs - unless it's in a small amount. But I want him to have the variety, so over time, I've been able to increase the amount he eats of venison, lamb, or beef to 50% of a meal, so I'll just feed that 50/50 meal 2x a day. (I feed 3 meals a day).

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Lilas, you probably haven't received egg yolk lecithin yet, but how's your boy doing? Is the multiple smaller meals working out? :cross:

Still waiting on the lecithin - it hasn't shipped yet. Boo!

But so far so good. No more regurgitation though he tends to crouch in the bathroom behind the door after he eats. Whether it's because he knows I'm going to check on him and he's waiting to pounce or because he doesn't feel well is a mystery. Sometimes he's still coughing and making a retching sound and it seems like he might be bringing something up but then he swallows it back down and then licks his lips. Nothing is actually coming up. And it's not the ongoing coughing where he's clearly having breathing trouble like when I first noticed he was coughing (so I guess he really had a URI and not asthma). Though sometimes after he eats he'll go in the corner of the bathroom and just sort of crouch there, looking at the wall but if I call for him or pet him he snaps out of it, so I think he may just be being weird or he might not be feeling great but gets over it? He's still hyper and still wants to play and is eating well, so I'm not super worried (though I am still a little worried, but I think that may be the Jewish mother in me).

I'm going to try to entice him to eat an egg yolk tonight by sprinkling some fortiflora on it. We'll see

LDG - Question. I've been reading a lot of posts and have seen people mention that they use both probiotics and digestic enzymes when raw feeding. What product do you recommend? And do I just sprinkle that on his food or mix it with the supplement slushy?

Hmmm.... that crouching can be a sign of nausea. :nod: How old is he? Because he really ought to be grooming after a meal if he's feeling 100%....

Of course, if he's dealing with hairballs, he would likely feel a bit nauseous. That's part of how I know (well, knew) my kitties had a hairball. And that hack that sounds like they're going to vomit and then suck it back down... the MAIN sign of a hairball. So these symptoms really do seem to be adding up.... and I expect you'll get him sorted pretty soon here. :nod:

Sorry if I'm repeating myself here, but a TCS friend in the UK couldn't source egg yolk lecithin, but an egg yolk 3x a week resolved her kitty's hairball problem. So if you can get him to eat that egg yolk, go for it! I give my kitties the full capsule or 1/2 capsule of egg yolk lecithin daily, and I try to get a total of 1.5 to 2 egg yolks in them weekly as well. :nod:

I have two that have a more severe problem with hairballs, and I'm giving them slippery elm bark powder (gelled up in aloe vera juice (George's brand), though many just use boiling water) 2x a week. It's a safe, soothing fiber, and the combination of egg yolk lecithin and the SEB seem to do the job. :cross:

I give my cats probiotics on the recommendation of our holistic vet. But it makes sense... in the wild, a cat would be getting a dose of probiotics every time they ate anything, because they eat the entire animal - so they'd get all that healthy flora from the guts. A high protein diet with little fiber doesn't provide much in the way of substrate to "grow" the friendly bacteria, so I like the daily probiotic support, along the lines that they'd be getting if they were hunting. :nod: This is the probiotic we use:
I just sprinkle one capsule on their food daily.

As to the digestive enzymes, I'm using this one for Lazlo: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/digestive-enzymes-for-pet.aspx

In the end, I didn't use digestive enzymes during our transition, because I didn't know about them until about a month into it. I ordered them, but kept forgetting to use them. :lol3: I'm trying them now for Lazlo, because he's been having issues with nausea - but he had a cancerous mass in his stomach and underwent chemotherapy to treat large cell lymphoma from July 2011 - January 2012. He had bleeding ulcers, and just has... digestive issues. I'm not sure they're helping. In fact - I can't really see they're doing anything. :dk: But the Mercola info seems pretty persuasive! :lol3:

He just turned 10 months a few days ago. He does groom himself, but shortly after he goes and hides behind the door. And yes! Total success on the egg yolk! I sprinkled some fortiflora and ate it right up (though he didn't finish it all, there was still a little puddle at the bottom but I figured for a first day, that was pretty good). I figured I might give him an egg yolk every other day. Afterwards he was super hyper (staring at me with his mouth open and meowing meowing meowing but not breathing hard, just staring, and then he licks his lips). And running all over the house. He did pant a little while playing, but it seemed more out of being hyper and excited than trouble breathing. I wonder if he just missed me or if it was the egg. 

It's really hard for me to figure out if what he's doing is hairballs or a breathing problem. I think I got spooked with the asthma warning since so many people say that asthma is often mistaken for hairball. So now, every little cough I freak out and have to keep telling myself it's just a little cough that sounds more like a sneeze and NOT a reason to take him to the vet. I think that if he had asthma, he would be having attacks where it would be obvious he was having trouble breathing, like what he did at the beginning of December. But he's not doing that anymore and he's been off the predisolone and terbutaline since Jan 13. And if I start taking him to the vet all the time, he will never de-stress and it will likely only make it worse.

ARGH! It's so hard being a pet mommy.   Thank god for this forum. It makes me feel less like a crazy person.

Lilas said:

ARGH! It's so hard being a pet mommy. 

 Thank god for this forum. It makes me feel less like a crazy person.

Click to expand...

So true. The support here is phenomenal.

My cat likes egg yolk (no toppers needed), but she won't eat more than 1/3 yolk at a time. I don't know why, maybe it's too rich and sticky??? I don't give her a whole yolk anymore. I just give her some of my yolk when I'm fixing it for myself (a little less yolk is probably better for me too).