socializing ferals - crate vs. room

Hi everybody, this is a hypothetical discussion I'd like to get going.   I might or might not be attempting this sometime in the forseeable future...    I've read a couple of different ways of socializing ferals.   Some people start them off in a small room like a bathroom and keep them there for weeks, even months working with them.   Some start them off in a large cage or crate and go from there to a room.   

My own experience with this is my indoor feral Patches who I kept in a bathroom for six weeks.    She wasn't/isn't a true feral - she was raised indoors and I suspect never properly socialized and was abused by her people, then she escaped and lived wild and had kittens for some time, and by the time I got to her was pretty feral.   But she accepted being in the bathroom right away because she remembered indoor life.   Still I never got her to the point of accepting being "handled"...petted yes, when relaxed, but never picked up or PUT anywhere.   Seven years later she's very affectionate but the rules are still pretty much the same.    And I wonder would it have gone down differently if I'd kept her in the bathroom longer, pushed her harder, done a crate first?

So I'd love to hear your ideas and preferences about this kind of thing....what leads to the best outcome?   

ETA:  And this about full adult ferals with big teeth and claws, kittens are an easier touch

my individual preference is to start off in a crate/cage and then use an isolated room as step two. however, i think it greatly depends on the specifics of the cat. what i mean by that is how feral is it? how long has the cat known you? has any progress (trust-wise) been made before the attempted socialization? how hard of a time has the cat had up til now?

i have a feral that i plan on being my next "project". i can not bring him in right now (long story) so i have been trying to work with him as much as i can at my colony. he has known me since he was roughly six months old and he has progressed to the point that he seeks out tummy rubs and will even climb onto my lap without hesitation. i currently have been working on getting him to feel comfortable with being held while i am standing - he is very confused with this but so far so good. when i am able to get him in i plan on bypassing a cage and having him in a room.

with pretty girl the cage was necessary in part due to the fact that i did the socializing at my work but also since she was; a) rather feral (she nearly killed the vet that altered her - silly vet did not listen to the warnings i gave), b) had only known me for roughly 5 months and was +/- 4 when she arrived, c) she had not developed any trust in me (well very, very little) and d) she had a pretty hard time in life before i trapped her.

the "how long in the cage/room" is so difficult to know. that was a question that i asked my "socializing a feral cat mentor" and she had no answer other than "you'll know, but if in doubt, wait a little longer". with pretty girl i waited almost five months before letting her out of the cage - keep in mind that since she is at a business i wanted to be extra safe, especially since there is not a room that i could use as a step two. in retrospect if i had socialized her at home i probably would have kept her in the cage for half that time and then had her in a room for at least a month or two.

Thanks Whaler this is great info!    It sounds like your new project feral kitty is already a big part of the way there. And if Pretty Girl could be socialized surely any of them can be.    It's amazing to me that it is possible for a feral to actually get fully tame - enough even to sit in a lap.  I'm not sure why Patches stalled at her current level.   I'm still in the deciding phase about what direction ultimately makes sense with Hercules - a few other life factors have to become clear too first.    He keeps a huge distance from me but faithfully shows up at feeding time, makes lots of eye contact and cases out my apartment door to see when I'll come out!   Getting TNR'd did set him back a bit though.  Based on your experience sounds like he'd need a long time in a cage first as his comfort zone distance right now is about fifty feet. 

Bastfriend said:

Thanks Whaler this is great info!    It sounds like your new project feral kitty is already a big part of the way there.

Click to expand...

yeah, he is. the thing is if you asked me 1-2 years ago i would have put money down that he would have not been able to be socialized. he was a very difficult one to trap - over a year of trying - and he would often disappear for days at a time. i sadly thought that he would have died or been killed before his third birthday. :dk:

And if Pretty Girl could be socialized surely any of them can be. It's amazing to me that it is possible for a feral to actually get fully tame - enough even to sit in a lap.

Click to expand...

i agree, it sometimes does boggle my mind how brave some of these cats really are. i don't feel that every feral can be socialized but i do believe that a majority can be - at least to a degree.

I'm not sure why Patches stalled at her current level.

Click to expand...

with so many variables and so many unknowns it is so difficult to even speculate. however, the bottom line is that you saved Patches life

I'm still in the deciding phase about what direction ultimately makes sense with Hercules - a few other life factors have to become clear too first.    He keeps a huge distance from me but faithfully shows up at feeding time, makes lots of eye contact and cases out my apartment door to see when I'll come out!   Getting TNR'd did set him back a bit though.  Based on your experience sounds like he'd need a long time in a cage first as his comfort zone distance right now is about fifty feet. 

Click to expand...

imo i think that it is easier to do a lot of the "groundwork" while they are still outside. i figure that it is due to the fact that they are in a known environment as well as that they have a sense of security since if they start to feel uncomfortable they can run. a lot of the progress i have made has been due to spending a lot of time at the colony just watching them, getting to know their personalities. this allowed me to try and focus on the one(s) that are more receptive. then, as i make some progress with one of them the more skittish ones are able to watch and see that "daddy ain't all that bad". i hope that makes a little sense.


ETA - the next projects name is blackie.

I sure hope Blackie will socialize well - he's a lucky cat!   Is he the black one in the winter picture you put up for the vote?   Very cool picture btw I voted for it.    And yep Patches is a sweet lady and the big picture matters most - she may never be a lap cat, but she definitely enjoys the indoor life (cushy beds and polar fleece blankets) and where I lived before she had pretty bleak options.   One of these days I'll get around to posting some pics.

thanks for the positive vibes! i only hope that i can start working on him sooner than later. at least in the meantime i can continue working with him.


yeah, he is the all black (i guess that is obvious lol ) one in that picture. that picture is from before i was able to trap him and that was as close to him as i could get.

We've never used a crate. It may speed up socialization... it just never felt "right" to us. :dk: We prefer the separate room, with hidey places set up. My ideal is a screen door on that room, so kitty can smell, see, hear everything going on, and watch interaction between us and other cats. In our experience, it's interaction with the other cats (and food LOL) that goes the farthest in helping a feral kitty become social. I'm a big believer in turning off the clock, and just letting kitty set the pace. I know it's different when people are actively rescuing, and need kitties social and adoptable as quickly as possible.

We've also spent more time living in an RV than in a house, so our feral kitty intros have never been normal, having no space to separate them in the RV. :lol3: The bathroom is too small for anything other than a really, really young kitten. And when we rescued Flowerbelle, she stayed in there all of a day.

Thanks LDG!  Just shows there's not just one way to do it.   I'm imagining an RV full of cats and a feral cat dashing about in there trying to figure out the rules from the regulars....    I think modeling off the tame kitties did help Patches relax quite a lot.

LDG said:

We've never used a crate. It may speed up socialization... it just never felt "right" to us. :dk: We prefer the separate room, with hidey places set up. My ideal is a screen door on that room, so kitty can smell, see, hear everything going on, and watch interaction between us and other cats. In our experience, it's interaction with the other cats (and food LOL) that goes the farthest in helping a feral kitty become social. I'm a big believer in turning off the clock, and just letting kitty set the pace. I know it's different when people are actively rescuing, and need kitties social and adoptable as quickly as possible.

We've also spent more time living in an RV than in a house, so our feral kitty intros have never been normal, having no space to separate them in the RV. :lol3: The bathroom is too small for anything other than a really, really young kitten. And when we rescued Flowerbelle, she stayed in there all of a day.

Click to expand...

This is so true, I did attempt to keep new ones separated (long time from that), but they did thought otherwise, but things did workout just fine.

Also finding food for that particular cat that is irresistible will help a lot and that seeing interaction with other cats is certainly big thing, they are creatures that learn by watching others, so seeing events is something that helps a lot.

There is no learning if cat is very scared, so having good place to hide where cat is not disturbed makes cat relaxed and then seeing interaction with others is helping a lot, but it does requires somewhat relaxed state of mind for them at least that is my understanding.
Surely they learn things that spook them, but while spooked I don't think they will learn at all, that is why for example yelling does not work, they learn that yelling gets them spooked, after that learning is switched off and they are just scared, their brain goes to something I call panic mode and only thing their brain is able to process then is self preservation, it can be so severe that they don't even recognize familiar person.

That is also reason why run away cat can't be approached in attempt of catching it as if in spooked state cat just runs away, only way is to go on knees and have familiar toy that makes familiar sounds or familiar good smelly food, then pretty much ignoring the cat just put food on bowl or play with toy like usually with cat, then cat will come or won't come, but that has higher chance for getting cat near and away from spooked mode than by attempting to approach a cat.

Their brain is incredible good for it's size, but size is not very large, so there are such limitations. Another limitation that I have observed is their ability to visualize 3 dimensional space, it is easily seen when cat tries to get treat that is in tube that is tiny bit over the floor, they constantly paw under the tube instead of putting paw into tube, they seem not to understand that tube is hanging from above when it is close to ground, also there is difficulties to understand that treat is inside of tube. Not sure if that information is much of use for socializing though, but something that just came to my mind.