Mickey's not eating and I don't know what to do till morning....

mickeys mom · Jan 17, 2013

Mickey has lost his appetite and I have a call into the vet's office. This happened once before when he was on the Methimazole pills for 3 or 4 days and now he's been on the Methimazole gel that goes on his ear for 4 days and it's happening again. The last time this happened the vet put fluid's under his skin with vitamin B. I'm just waiting for a call back from the vet to see what they suggest and the doctor has already left for the day. When I spoke with the vet earlier today, (she had called me while I was at work). She said, that she would note his chart to have a technician do the procedure of putting fluids under his skin with some vitamin B. It seems like he's drinking water and he did eat some food but not very much, just a small amount. When she put the fluids under his skin it seemed to help him get an appetite back.

Well, the technician just called and said that they can't do it unless it was requested by the doctor, I told her that the doctor mentioned to me that she would note Mickey's chart to say it was okay for them to do this. So I guess since it's evening and so close to their closing time the technician was only making excuses why they can't do it tonight cause she wants to go home...she didn't come right out and say that but I got the feeling that's what she meant. This procedure only takes about 5 to 10 minutes but I wasn't going to argue with her. So I told her "I understand that it's late and you want to go home so I will call tomorrow". She said "no that's not it but it's that I can't keep the hospital open till after 7:00". I've been there another time till after 7:00 so I really don't understand her saying that. I'm sorry for rambling on I'm just unset right now, and in tears cause I don't know what to do for Mickey till morning when I can bring him to the vet. He doesn't appear to be stressing about it just lying down on the bed with his head up like everything is just peachy. I'm just so concerned about him, but I will leave some canned food out for him in case he gets an urge to go eat during the night.

In the morning when I get Mickey to the vet's, I'm going to ask them to teach me how to inject the fluid under Mickey's skin myself. It'll be a lot easier than having to get him to the hospital for this procedure. Their not far from me less than 5 miles, but it'll be better than going through another night like this.

I'm sorry, this is all my own fault, I got out of work at 5:30 and I needed to go to the pet store to get some more canned cat food since I gave the last of it to Mickey this morning. So by the time I got home from the store and fed Mickey and watched him a bit to see if he would eat than it was close to 6:30 by the time I called the vet. Than by the time they called me back it was 6:45 and than it was too late to bring him in to the vet hospital. My big mistake was letting the food run down so low, this has never happened before, I've always made sure to have plenty on hand. So this is all my own fault.

raintyger · Jan 17, 2013

Cats can get liver damage if they don't eat, some within 24 hours. If they don't eat it is sometimes necessary to syringe feed.

I bought a syringe to have on hand and the store help told me to water down the food and cut the tip off the syringe if necessary. I also watched the first two videos in a YouTube search:

http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...85.0.3137.16.8.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0...1ac.1.

mickeys mom · Jan 17, 2013

Oh by the way, my vet also suggested taking Mickey off the meds and giving him Hills Y/D canned or dry food. I looked it up on the Internet and the ingredients for both the dry and wet to me is garbage, I would not want my kitty eating this junk! It has corn gluten and by-products in this food and they call this a prescription food, not very satisfactory to me. Maybe I'm just too picky for what I give my kitty, but it just doesn't appeal enough to me to even try giving it to Mickey. My vet did say I could mix it in his regular canned food until he takes a liking to it, but I don' think I want to give it to him and I definitely can't see this food being healthy.

mickeys mom · Jan 17, 2013

Raintyger said:
Cats can get liver damage if they don't eat, some within 24 hours. If they don't eat it is sometimes necessary to syringe feed.

I bought a syringe to have on hand and the store help told me to water down the food and cut the tip off the syringe if necessary. I also watched the first two videos in a YouTube search:

http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...85.0.3137.16.8.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0...1ac.1.

Well I feel a little better, I finally got Mickey to eat a little of canned food and a bit of some raw chicken, at least he has something in his stomach now. He does seem to be drinking a lot of water, not sure what that means but I will mention it to my vet doctor tomorrow morning. I will also get a syringe tomorrow, thank you.

raintyger · Jan 17, 2013

Be sure to review those videos. The people in them had cats that they regularly syringe feed, so I'm sure the cats are used to it and don't put up a fight, but it looked a lot better than I had imagined.

mickeys mom · Jan 17, 2013

Raintyger said:
Be sure to review those videos. The people in them had cats that they regularly syringe feed, so I'm sure the cats are used to it and don't put up a fight, but it looked a lot better than I had imagined.

I did view the video's and you're right I also think the cats are use to it. I'm sure Mickey will put up a fight and I will need to restrain him quite a bit more than they are with their cats. I really hate to do that to him, but if it's needed than I'll do it, but it will not be any of the prescription food.

otto · Jan 17, 2013

You're right, that y/d is awful stuff. It does sound like Mickey has an intolerance to the methimazole, I am really sorry about that. SOME cats can adjust in time, but it's a very tricky thing, because it's so dangerous for cats to go without eating.

I am just...horrified that the tech wasn't willing to wait five minutes for you to bring Mickey over there for fluids. Chances are she would have been out of there by 7:00 anyway, since you are so close. She could have had it all set up for him, and done him as soon as you walked in the door. Be sure to mention this to the vet. Perhaps there is a rule in the clinic, but...I wonder.

Cats with CKD do drink a lot. I am glad you have decided to learn to do the fluids at home, it really is the best way to do it. You will get plenty of help here.

Keep offering Mickey small amounts of canned food every half hour or so. Just a teaspoon or so at a time. Try adding a little warm water to it and see how he likes that. The raw chicken is okay, too. I know you are working on a balanced raw diet for him, but for tonight, getting food, especially food containing moisture, into him, is the most important thing.

raintyger · Jan 17, 2013

Mickey's Mom,

Follow otto's advice -- some food, even unbalanced, is better than none, until you can get further instruction from the vet.

I applaud your determination not to feed Hill's Corn Crap. There are places that will tell you how to feed your cat with medical conditions if one of the forum members can't tell you.

The vet probably wants you to feed the Hill's because hyperthyroidism can mask kidney disease symptoms. In hyperthyroidism the kidneys get more blood, alleviating the condition a little. So if you don't treat the hyperthyroidism or at least not as aggressively, the kidney disease is held at bay longer.

Remember, if finding the right dietary treatment becomes overwhelming, you can feed the Hill's temporarily. Just don't let it carry on for months.

mickeys mom · Jan 17, 2013

otto said:
You're right, that y/d is awful stuff. It does sound like Mickey has an intolerance to the methimazole, I am really sorry about that. SOME cats can adjust in time, but it's a very tricky thing, because it's so dangerous for cats to go without eating.

I am just...horrified that the tech wasn't willing to wait five minutes for you to bring Mickey over there for fluids. Chances are she would have been out of there by 7:00 anyway, since you are so close. She could have had it all set up for him, and done him as soon as you walked in the door. Be sure to mention this to the vet. Perhaps there is a rule in the clinic, but...I wonder.

Cats with CKD do drink a lot. I am glad you have decided to learn to do the fluids at home, it really is the best way to do it. You will get plenty of help here.

Keep offering Mickey small amounts of canned food every half hour or so. Just a teaspoon or so at a time. Try adding a little warm water to it and see how he likes that. The raw chicken is okay, too. I know you are working on a balanced raw diet for him, but for tonight, getting food, especially food containing moisture, into him, is the most important thing.

Yes, I've been offering him a little bit of food every so often and each time I try he does eats a little bit. I'm so glad that there are others that feel the way I do about Hills Y/D cat food. All I did was read the first few ingredients and I knew right away that I couldn't give this to Mickey. It may be a food for his condition but I'm so afraid it would do more harm than good.

I was very angry with the technician this evening, but what could do, I just had to deal with it the best way I could. If I yelled and screamed at her as I wanted to than it would only make me feel bad about going back there.

Thank you to all of you here for the encouragement I get on this awesome site, I so appreciate everyone here, you all are the best medicine for Mickey and me!

mickeys mom · Jan 17, 2013

Raintyger said:
Mickey's Mom,

Follow otto's advice -- some food, even unbalanced, is better than none, until you can get further instruction from the vet.

I applaud your determination not to feed Hill's Corn Crap. There are places that will tell you how to feed your cat with medical conditions if one of the forum members can't tell you.

The vet probably wants you to feed the Hill's because hyperthyroidism can mask kidney disease symptoms. In hyperthyroidism the kidneys get more blood, alleviating the condition a little. So if you don't treat the hyperthyroidism or at least not as aggressively, the kidney disease is held at bay longer.

Remember, if finding the right dietary treatment becomes overwhelming, you can feed the Hill's temporarily. Just don't let it carry on for months.

When I asked the vet about Mickey's numbers from his blood test she did tell me the hyperthyroidism is in the very early stages, his level is at 4.3 and his kidney's are also very mild condition plus his calcium level is in the normal range AT 10.2. She actually thought that if we could treat Mickey with the pills or gel for the hyperthyroidism than the kidney's would heal. But, now that he can't take the pills or the gel than the only other option is a diet for his medical condition as you mentioned. I'll have to focus on that more until I get a good diet for him. Thank you so much for your advice and help. I do appreciate everyone here on this site.

otto · Jan 17, 2013

Kidneys don't heal. The disease can be managed, often for many years, but not cured. By the time kidney failure shows up in blood work the kidney function is about 75% gone. This does not mean that the cat is at death's door. Many cats have many years of happy excellent quality of life with CKD, with proper diet and home maintenance.

It's true though that the thyroid and kidney functions are very intertwined. The kidneys do rely on some thyroid function, this is why cats with CKD are not candidates for the I-131 cure (radioactive iodine therapy).

You're doing a great job with Mickey and it sound like your vet encourages client involvement and understanding.

I recommend starting a notebook for Mickey. Record what he eats, when, so you have an idea of patterns, and keep track of bowel movements. Write down any questions you have, when you think of them. Bring that notebook with you to Mickey's appointments, so you have your records and questions right handy. Write down the answers too, so you have a reference for later. It's impossible to remember everything, in such situations. Having those notes to refer to will save you a ton of stress.

No, you're right venting your frustration on the tech would not have served any useful purpose. But I do encourage you to mention it to the vet, just in case this tech is over-stepping. In a case like that, it's not just about you and Mickey, but who else may she be causing problems to, you know? If this is the same tech that told you raw food is bad for Mickey, I already have my back up against her, on your behalf! :lol3:

mickeys mom · Jan 18, 2013

I'm going to have to look for a very good diet for Mickey, since he can't take the meds because he looses his appetite with the meds and I don't want to give him the Hills Y/D food, cause that's not a very good food for him.

But, tonight he's back to eating without too much of a problem, except that he wants only the raw chicken with the FortiFlora on it. He ate just about 1 ounce of the raw chicken and he wanted more and I didn't want to give him more raw but I did give him some canned. He didn't like that so he started to cut up...in other words he started meowing loudly and running from one room to the next. I tell you he is so spoiled and when he wants his way he will run all over the house meowing and than come sit at my feet and hit me with his paw, he doesn't use his claws just hits me enough to let me know he means business and doesn't want that canned food. So I went back into the pantry and gave him a different canned food and that seemed to settle him down a bit. The most important thing is that he's eating, I'm very grateful for that.

I do love this little monster,

even when he's very angry with me!

Sometimes he's such a little brat! But, don't get me wrong I mean it in a good way!

mickeys mom · Jan 18, 2013

otto said:
Kidneys don't heal. The disease can be managed, often for many years, but not cured. By the time kidney failure shows up in blood work the kidney function is about 75% gone. This does not mean that the cat is at death's door. Many cats have many years of happy excellent quality of life with CKD, with proper diet and home maintenance.

It's true though that the thyroid and kidney functions are very intertwined. The kidneys do rely on some thyroid function, this is why cats with CKD are not candidates for the I-131 cure (radioactive iodine therapy).

You're doing a great job with Mickey and it sound like your vet encourages client involvement and understanding.

I recommend starting a notebook for Mickey. Record what he eats, when, so you have an idea of patterns, and keep track of bowel movements. Write down any questions you have, when you think of them. Bring that notebook with you to Mickey's appointments, so you have your records and questions right handy. Write down the answers too, so you have a reference for later. It's impossible to remember everything, in such situations. Having those notes to refer to will save you a ton of stress.

No, you're right venting your frustration on the tech would not have served any useful purpose. But I do encourage you to mention it to the vet, just in case this tech is over-stepping. In a case like that, it's not just about you and Mickey, but who else may she be causing problems to, you know? If this is the same tech that told you raw food is bad for Mickey, I already have my back up against her, on your behalf!

Well I didn't call the vet in the morning since Mickey decided he was hungry and wanted to eat at 4:00 in the morning.

So since he was crying so much at that time of the day I got up and fed him, he ate a little more than a half a plate of his food and than went to his water bowl and I went back to bed. At 6:00 when I got up again to get ready for work he ate some more so I was very pleased about that. I guess the meds had to wear off before his appetite could return, I'm really not sure I'm just glad he's eating! My vet had said, if I choose to give him the Hills Y/D food than after the transition from his current food to the Y/D food than he would have to be strictly on the Y/D for a full four weeks for it to do any good. But, I'm afraid if I give him the Y/D food that he will get crystals again from the corn and grains in this food. If he even like it which I don't think he will cause he never would eat the CD food. He had urinary tract blockage of crystals back when he was about 5 years old and that was about 12 years ago and I've always watched what he ate after that incident, and he never got it again. I never feed him anything with grains in it since he doesn't need it. I truly believe that a grain free food is better for him. Even though Mickey is a 17 and a half year old, sweet little old man...he's still my baby!

raintyger · Jan 18, 2013

Mickeys Mom said:
I'm going to have to look for a very good diet for Mickey, since he can't take the meds because he looses his appetite with the meds and I don't want to give him the Hills Y/D food, cause that's not a very good food for him.

But, tonight he's back to eating without too much of a problem, except that he wants only the raw chicken with the FortiFlora on it. He ate just about 1 ounce of the raw chicken and he wanted more and I didn't want to give him more raw but I did give him some canned. He didn't like that so he started to cut up...in other words he started meowing loudly and running from one room to the next. I tell you he is so spoiled and when he wants his way he will run all over the house meowing and than come sit at my feet and hit me with his paw, he doesn't use his claws just hits me enough to let me know he means business and doesn't want that canned food. So I went back into the pantry and gave him a different canned food and that seemed to settle him down a bit. The most important thing is that he's eating, I'm very grateful for that.

I do love this little monster,

even when he's very angry with me!

Sometimes he's such a little brat! But, don't get me wrong I mean it in a good way!

Good to hear Mickey's hungry!

There are places on the internet that will put together a raw diet for you (for a fee, of course), taking into consideration Mickey's medical history. When I originally read Lisa Pierson's site she did offer such services. You'd have to send copies of the medical records. I don't know if any forum members do raw feeding with CRF or hyperthyroidism, but you could try PM'ing a few.

Haha. I think the "brat" part is what makes some people like kitties more than dogs. With a cat it's more challenging. They don't give their loyalty and affection as easily, so when they do, we know we've earned it.

Does Mickey eat the raw chicken if it's not chunky? Have you considered grinding or food processing the chicken and mixing it up with the supplements gradually? In other words, make the supplement ratio small to start off with and then increase. You could add chicken chunks on top since he seems to like it that way. You'd have to make the raw portion a small part of his daily intake until the supplements are at proper levels.

mickeys mom · Jan 19, 2013

Raintyger said:
Good to hear Mickey's hungry!

There are places on the internet that will put together a raw diet for you (for a fee, of course), taking into consideration Mickey's medical history. When I originally read Lisa Pierson's site she did offer such services. You'd have to send copies of the medical records. I don't know if any forum members do raw feeding with CRF or hyperthyroidism, but you could try PM'ing a few.

Haha. I think the "brat" part is what makes some people like kitties more than dogs. With a cat it's more challenging. They don't give their loyalty and affection as easily, so when they do, we know we've earned it.

Does Mickey eat the raw chicken if it's not chunky? Have you considered grinding or food processing the chicken and mixing it up with the supplements gradually? In other words, make the supplement ratio small to start off with and then increase. You could add chicken chunks on top since he seems to like it that way. You'd have to make the raw portion a small part of his daily intake until the supplements are at proper levels.

As far as Mickey, liking raw chicken only in chunks, I really don't know if it was the form of the chicken or what was in it, but he didn't like Rad Cat and that is ground chicken which I offered to him 2 or 3 times before I had to get rid of it since after that length of time it wasn't any good. I also, tried giving him the Instinct Nature's Variety Raw and he didn't like that either. But, when I offer him the raw chicken in chunks with the FortiFlora sprinkled on it ~ he eats that up like it's his last meal.

I wish I could find the Alnutrin in a local store here, cause I'm still waiting for the samples to come in the mail, I believe it's coming from Arizona and I'm in New Hampshire so it may take a while. I'll be glad when it arrives, I really want to give that a try. Plus I think today I may call a butcher shop and see if I can get a small amount of chicken liver so that I can offer that to Mickey and see if he will like that. I could also get it in a large container at the supermarket and if he doesn't like it and could always give it to all to the feral cats outside. I always try to satisfy my little brat

, I know at times in his own little way he does appreciate it!

mrsgreenjeens · Jan 19, 2013

I emailed tham at [email protected] and asked for samples of everything they had, and they didn't require me to fill out their forms or anything. I had the samples in just 3 days time. Also, asked them if they sold in any stores, and they said "no". So I would try emailing them even though you have sent away for the samples. Explain your situation and say you are in a hurry.

Also, wonder if maybe whoever you spoke with at Wysong was new, because I just got samples last month. I can send you what I got, since mine don't like it. PM me with your address and I'll send them to you.

mickeys mom · Jan 19, 2013

mrsgreenjeens said:
I emailed tham at [email protected] and asked for samples of everything they had, and they didn't require me to fill out their forms or anything. I had the samples in just 3 days time. Also, asked them if they sold in any stores, and they said "no". So I would try emailing them even though you have sent away for the samples. Explain your situation and say you are in a hurry.

Also, wonder if maybe whoever you spoke with at Wysong was new, because I just got samples last month. I can send you what I got, since mine don't like it. PM me with your address and I'll send them to you.

Hi mrsgreenjeens ~

Thanks for suggesting that but I think you got your samples sooner cause you live in Arizona and that's where they are located, I live in New Hampshire so it would take a bit longer. They had asked for a self-address and post-paid envelope so that's what I did along with the request form. I'm sure I'll be getting the samples soon, maybe by the middle of next week. Oh and thank you for your kindness by offering to send me the Call of the Wild but, I was informed that there is dl-methionine in the ingredients and that it's not good for cats with a kidney issue so I don't want to try it, but thanks anyways. I appreciate you thoughtfulness.

Mickey's not eating and I don't know what to do till morning....

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Every Life Should Have Nine Cats

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