HALP! Lucy will not stop peeing outside her litter.... we're at our wits' end....

Ok, for starters the back story.

We bought our house brand new in 2003. At the time, we had two cats, a male and a female. In late spring last year (2012) both cats passed away. My wife and I were fairly certain we were not going to take in any more cats, so we threw out their litter pan, toys, etc... anything that reminded us of them.

A couple months later, friends of ours packed up and moved very far away, to a place they knew they could not take their two cats (both female). They're both sweet cats, about 7 years old, seemed low maintenance, so we opted to take them in, since they were also good with kids.

We got them a fresh litter pan, and started using the litter they had always used from their prior owners. We put the litter pan in the same spot in the basement where our prior two cats had always gone with no issues.

Fast forward a couple months to about September. One of the cats took to peeing in inappropriate places. We know which cat it is, because we've seen her do it. She peed upstairs on the hardwood kitchen floor. We used Nature's Miracle to clean it up. She peed again. We cleaned it up again, and set up a Feliway cannister there. She peed again. We cleaned it up again, set down tin foil, and eventually carpet runners (spike side up) in the spot to discourage the behavior. She peed on the carpet runner. So we hauled her into the vet. Lo and behold, she had a slight UTI. So we treated her for the UTI. She kept peeing in the kitchen.

Then she started peeing on the living room carpet next -- down one of the HVAC ducts, in one case. We replaced the HVAC ducting, cleaned up the mess, and hauled her back into the vet. UTI test came out clean. No sign of diabetes on a sugar panel. We did an extended bacterial (10 day) culture. Clean, but still peeing where she shouldn't pee.

So we crated her for about a month to break the behavior. While crated, she peed dutifully in the litter.

We started letting her out of the crate, but left the cage and litter pan in place. No issues. We moved the litter pan to the base of the stairwell. No issues. We moved the litter pan to the basement. And she started peeing at the base of the stairwell.

So we put the litter pan back to the base of the stairwell. There were times that she peed on the carpet next to the litter pan. We hauled her back to the vet. UTI/bacteriological still clear, still no sign of diabetes. The vet's last line of defense was kitty prozac. She's been on it two weeks, and still every so often she's peeing right next to the litter pan at the base of the stairwell. We've put down tin foil all around the base of the stairwell, and we're expecting she's going to start going somewhere else next.

We're at our wits' end. She's a sweet cat, very loving and cuddly and good with the kids and a great lapcat. But neither my wife nor I can tolerate our house continuing to smell of cat pee -- we're both embarassed and don't want guests over. The kids have already had to go through the loss of two cats they had grown up with, and now we're quickly getting to the place that this cat is going to need to go... plus the pair of cats have always been together, and separating the two may be traumatic for the one left behind.

Please help. Are we just at that point of irreconcilable differences?

I see you said you cleaned up all the areas she is peeing on with a Natures Miracle, but several people here have not had much luck with that particular product...although some have.    I have heard Nok Out and Stink Free recommended by different people.)   If there is even the slightest smell (to HER nose, not yours, she will continue to use those spots.  You may need to get a black light to make sure you have completely gotten up all the spots. 

Otherwise, have you tried Cat Attract?  It's a special litter made to lure a cat back to their litter box.  I don't know quite how it works, but I've heard that it does! 

Plus, on the Prozac, did your Vet tell you how long it might take to take effect?  I thought it was something like 6 - 8 weeks to fully take effect, rather than just 2. 

Good luck with this issue...I'm can understand how very frustrating it must be

How frustrating this must be for you. Especially since you've put SO much effort into fixing the problem.
I think the best solution would be to keep a litter box upstairs. I know it's nice to have it downstairs and out of the way, but if she pees nicely when one is upstairs and not when one isn't, I think that would be the fastest way to save your house. You could buy one of those ones that's hidden inside of a piece of furniture.
:nod:

I would also consider adding a third litter box. Some cats are just super picky about where they pee.
*hugs*

Have you taken the cat for a vet check?  Sometimes peeing all over the place is a symptom of a UTI.

Otherwise, just one litter tray for 4 cats sounds rather mean to me.  I'd put at least one more down, and see how it goes.

You also need to clean everywhere really well each and every time the cat pees there.  A warm solution of biological / enzyme laundry liquid or powder works as well as all the speciality products and is a lot, lot cheaper.  If at all possible also wipe the surface with surgical spirits on cotton wool as well, though some surfaces won't take this treatment.  Anything that can be washed, do so again with a biological / enzyme product.

If you try to deter her from her favourite pee spots she may well simply move on to another one.

You could also consider consulting a cat shrink - a cat behaviourist.  In the UK there is a professional body for them, and theiur qualification is a CCAB - Certified Clinical Animal Behaviourist.  Here they need a referal from one's vet and I'm sure it is all very similar in the US or wherever you are - you don't saw.

OrientalSlave said:

Have you taken the cat for a vet check?  Sometimes peeing all over the place is a symptom of a UTI.

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It says she took her cat to the vet like three times in her first post.

I do not think it is a behavior issue. Although the usual diagnosis for health like UTI, etc. have been ruled out, is it possible she may be having issues of old age? Maybe Lucy is beginning to have arthritis and may be in pain. Or she may have problems with sight, smell or hearing? 

She just doesn't like her litter box. One of my cats long time ago wouldn't go to his litter box and was all stressed out. It continued for about 3 months and than we saw him on a toilet. He toilet trained himself. That was the end of litter box problems.
So when we've got my other cat, we toilet trained her within 3 months with our prototype seat. We don't have any problems with her either.

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome and ideas! It's been reassuring that the Mrs. and I haven't overlooked anything obvious, and that we're on the right track. Let me try and address everyone's comments so far.

First, we only have two cats, not four -- Moose and Grace passed away last spring, before we adopted Lucy and Sarah... sorry if that was confusing.

Lucy's last trip to the vet came back completely healthy on all fronts. She even stayed over night to get a good urine sample. Believe me, I'd dearly LOVE for this to be something biological that we can treat in short order.

We've got an LED blacklight to look for the stains, and we've been pretty successful in getting them cleaned up. We're continuing with the cleaning battle -- I'll definitely add a powder based enzyme to the arsenal, thanks for the suggestion @OrientalSlave.

I agree, if we run her off the one spot, she may go elsewhere. Honestly, given the choices of where she could pee on the floor... where she's going could be a LOT worse. The rug at the base of the stairwell is a lot easier to repair than the hardwood floor in the kitchen!

We switched to Cat Attract when we crated her last fall at the recommendation of our vet.

Unfortunately, upstairs does not lend itself to a litter box. I suspect this may be part of the problem though... that Lucy is being lazy and not wanting to go up and downstairs. She doesn't act like she's having trouble with sight, smell, or hearing. Arthritis... maybe... she seems a bit young, but it is possible. I'm more inclined to believe she's finicky about having a clean litter pan.

A third litter pan may be an option. @Veronika, you're right, she could be rebelling against the pan. When we crated her, she didn't have any issues with it though... but then, the Mrs. was scooping the litter every night.

The vet did say it could take 4 weeks or so on the Kitty Prozac. We're also trying some good old fashioned positive reinforcement, treats when we see her peeing in the pan, etc.

Getting a behaviourist/shrink for the fuzzball may need to be in the future... just to help sort out what Lucy wants that we're missing.


Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement. We'll get through this-- she really is a wonderful addition to the family, if we can get this one issue sorted out. Please keep the ideas coming!

M00se said:

A third litter pan may be an option. @Veronika, you're right, she could be rebelling against the pan. When we crated her, she didn't have any issues with it though... but then, the Mrs. was scooping the litter every night.

 

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You do need to scoop at least once a day. A third box and keeping all the boxes clean may just be the solution to your problems with Lucy. 

yayi said:

M00se said:

A third litter pan may be an option. @Veronika, you're right, she could be rebelling against the pan. When we crated her, she didn't have any issues with it though... but then, the Mrs. was scooping the litter every night.

 

Click to expand...

You do need to scoop at least once a day. A third box and keeping all the boxes clean may just be the solution to your problems with Lucy. 

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  We scoop all our boxes twice a day, once in the morning and once again right before bedtime. And one of our furballs is usually waiting for us to finish scooping.  As soon as we're done, he jumps right in to dirty it up again .  He likes a perfectly clean,unused litter box, apparently.   That could be your issue right there!   When you say "upstairs does not lend itself to a litter box",  what do you mean?  Is there absolutely no where you could place one?  They even make furniture now that disguises litter boxes.  We actually have one litter box in a bathtub.  Needless to say, we don't use that tub .  And I am seriously thinking when they get too old to easily go upstairs (since two boxes are upstairs), I might make a short screen to fit under our Parson's Table in the entry way so I can put a litter box there and hide it behind a screen.

If you think the cleanliness is part of the issue; my husband and I invested in an electronic box years ago and its been worth every penny.  We have 2 cats and back then we were in a smaller place so having only one box was helpful for us.  We recently replaced it for another after a good 6 years of use.  Maybe closer to 7.  With our two the tray still needs emptying every other day; sometimes every day so we check it every day.  DH usually empties it when he takes out the trash.  

Thanks everyone -- after a couple days really sizing things up, we're seeing a few things that may have happened all at once that just had Lucy a little rattled.

The holiday season is wrapping up, and so there's lots of boxes that have been moved around, things getting packed and unpacked, etc. The last time Lucy saw that, she ended up getting unceremoniously moved to a new house with new humans and new kids. So that may have gotten her a little spooked.

The other thing we've noticed is she's somewhat nervous going downstairs, and seems a little more easily spooked once down there. We usually only keep one light on in the basement, which means the bulk of the basement is very dark, especially in winter (it's a walkout basement). While cats generally have good night vision, the odd noises from upstairs (water running, kids being kids, HVAC) coupled with the dark may have her a little more spooked about being down there.

When we first adopted the pair of cats, Sarah tended to stay downstairs, and Lucy upstairs. While Sarah eventually made her way upstairs (which is where we spend most of our time as a family), Lucy never really gravitated towards the basement. So... we've turned on a couple extra lights throughout the basement, over by the litter as well, just so it's not quite so likely to set her off. Add to that some closer diligence in keeping the boxes cleaned out, and we might just be all right

@MoochNNoodles: thanks for the idea on the electronic litter pan. We used to have one when we first moved from California back to the East coast. We got a motorized litter pan just for convenience sake, and it went great for a couple months. Then Gracie started peeing on the spare bed. To discourage her, we covered the bed in plastic. She crawled under the plastic to pee on the bed. After a few weeks and trying different things to discourage her, we were quickly running out of options.

We were just about ready to get rid of her, when one night we happened to be in the room when the litter pan kicked on and cleaned itself. Both cats were glaring at the pan, ears down, clearly distressed. The nearest thing we can figure is the unit kicked on and happened to catch one or both of them in the pan by mistake. We got a traditional litter pan and put it in the same room with the motorized unit. The cats never used the electronic one again. We listened to what they were telling us and got rid of it

You need four litter boxes and at least one upstairs, that's a given. :nod:

I have some cats who like a clean box. But when I am in training, I leave a little in for inspiration. So they know that the box is the correct place to go.

MOOse, glad to hear things may be back on the right track