6-month-old kitten ONLY 2.6 lbs!

I agree about the B12 shot. Print out my B12 page and give it to your vet if you have to! It's non toxic and there's no reason not to give it. 

Oh yes - add the "any vet worth their salt won't vaccinate a sick kitty" to the list. :nod:

This is a link to the B12 page on Lisa's IBDkitties.net website: http://www.ibdkitties.net/B12.html

They didn't seem to know a lot about his parasite testing, so I may take some samples in and suggest a re-test.  That's what I thought about the B12!  Glad you folks chimed in because I'm going to tell them about the B12.  Do you have a link to that page that I can print off?  I'll also cancel that vaccination as well!  Gosh, I'm so glad I joined this site in the midst of all of this.

I luckily found a holistic vet that does chinese medicine somewhat near me.  I'm going to call her tomorrow as well.

A holistic vet is a great idea! She may even have the B12 injections there. 

LDG said:

This is a link to the B12 page on Lisa's IBDkitties.net website: http://www.ibdkitties.net/B12.html

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Charlie91 said:

They didn't seem to know a lot about his parasite testing, so I may take some samples in and suggest a re-test.  That's what I thought about the B12!  Glad you folks chimed in because I'm going to tell them about the B12.  Do you have a link to that page that I can print off?  I'll also cancel that vaccination as well!  Gosh, I'm so glad I joined this site in the midst of all of this.

I luckily found a holistic vet that does chinese medicine somewhat near me.  I'm going to call her tomorrow as well.

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We were posting at the same time - there's the link to the B12 page.

If the holistic vet is a DVM, why not cancel the appointment with this vet, save the money, and go to the holistic DVM? She can run all the same normal tests as any regular vet - being a regular vet that just happens to have additional training.

Charlie91 said:

 Over the phone they CLAIM to have done fecal tests and came back negative for Coccida and Giardia.  Tomorrow I'll be doing quite the interrogation, since they don't seem to be too confident and appear to be taking this matter rather lightly... 

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We ran into the same problem with the vet we first took Livvy to- they seemed very dismissive about the whole thing, like her having all this diarrhea was just normal. Just one appointment with them and then we moved on to a vet who took it more seriously and really invested in finding out what was wrong. If you don't trust your vet completely it's time to find a new one. 

I'm so glad he is doing better on the all wet diet and I will also second looking into raw feeding. It wasn't the best choice for us (partly because we found something that worked for Livvy and were worried about changing again, and also because I don't live with my parents and my Mom is ill so raw feeding was just a little too much for my Dad to handle all alone). But, if you can, I really do think it's worth exploring. 

I'm so glad you are learning so much and are doing what is in Charlie's best interest. Nothing replaces a vet's expertise but it's equally important to do your own research. After all, you are the one who sees Charlie everyday and are the one speaking for him. While I'm a firm advocate of the full kitten series of shots, he is already past the prime vaccinating age and it's not going to help his belly any. In this particular situation I agree with the others that waiting is probably a smart move. 

Oh thank you for the link!  Sorry, I'm a little new to all of this.  This is actually somewhat of a first pet (on my own without my parents) and I'm not sure what a DVM is?  And I've done some research on this holistic vet in my area.  It'd be probably a 20-25 min. drive to get to this vet, but it's a particular town that my girlfriend and I truly enjoy visiting, one of a kind, so we wouldn't mind as long as we could find the time.  This particular vet practices: Acupuncture, Osteopathy, Chinese Herbal Medicine and Tui-Na.  Would this be a good option for me?

I'm going to visit and meet (for myself, Kelly has gone for all the vet visits) the veterinarian in person myself tomorrow.  So I'll be able to see the type of person, how knowledgeable he is, what type of advice he has, and his ambition towards getting Charlie to the best possible state of health.  I plan to at least call the holistic vet tomorrow to make an introduction and perhaps ask some questions.

I also thought of another question: the Innova EVO can states that you should feed an ADULT cat about 1/2 can per 6-8 lbs of body weight per day; and to feed a KITTEN up to twice the adult amount.  Then it also notes: GESTATION AND LACTATION: feed up to three times the normal adult amount (this is a 13.2 oz can).  With Charlie's age and size (6 months, 2.6 lbs) and his specific situation: what amount should we be feeding him?  Right now we've been feeding about a 1/2 can a day split into 3 meals (with a 1/2 packet of Fortiflora onto each meal).

Charlie91 said:

I also thought of another question: the Innova EVO can states that you should feed an ADULT cat about 1/2 can per 6-8 lbs of body weight per day; and to feed a KITTEN up to twice the adult amount.  Then it also notes: GESTATION AND LACTATION: feed up to three times the normal adult amount (this is a 13.2 oz can).  With Charlie's age and size (6 months, 2.6 lbs) and his specific situation: what amount should we be feeding him?  Right now we've been feeding about a 1/2 can a day split into 3 meals (with a 1/2 packet of Fortiflora onto each meal).

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Feed him as much as he will eat. You might be surprised how much he can eat. I have two who had a rough start and were about the same size your baby is and at that age they could chow down on some food. They ate anywhere from 6-10 oz of food a day. So based on that what you are feeding him is not bad, but if he wants more I would let him eat it.

DVM stand for a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine, aka, they have gone to veterinary school. 

My vet is a holistic vet who is also a DVM, and I love the combination. Like LDG was saying, a holistic vet who has also been to vet school can give you the best of both worlds, and oftentimes combines Western testing with both Western and Eastern treatments. I know there are some fantastic strictly holistic vets out there but be sure to ask about the vet's background and, if necessary, look into your location's licensing requirements. In some places holistic vets do not need to be licensed to practice so a few crummy ones can ruin it for the rest. It's worth looking into. 

It's very feasible that Charlie's troubles can be solved without Western medications (just by changing diet, supplements, ect) but you still need to be certain that things like parasites are completely ruled out. So, if the holistic vet does not offer that kind of testing but sure you see a "regular" DVM in addition for the time being. 

It sounds like you have kept the appointment for tomorrow which is good. Take a stool sample with you and have them re-test it and ask him/her all the questions you have. Also, it's a good idea to ask for a copy of Charlie's records so you can be sure of everything that has been done, and can take them with you if you decide to see the holistic vet or any other provider. 

As CatNamedPanda said, you should let him eat as much as he wants. Since he's only eating wet food several smaller meals throughout the day (as many as you can manage between your busy schedules) is going to be easier for him to digest than two big meals a day. Once you and Charlie get into a feeding routine you will be able to tell how much to put down at each feeding. Also remember wet food spoils quickly so don't leave it down for more than 30 minutes. If there is a lot left over you can cover it and put it in the refrigerator to be re-heated later. 

Oh my gosh this is perfect then! This holistic vet is a DVM. Went to Ohio State University and has been licensed since she graduated in 1988.

Yes, still have the appointment simply due to the fact that I, personally, want to see for myself how the vet is. And I'll grab our records while we're there. The stool doesn't have to be fresh fresh does it? And if this holistic vet is a DVM will she be able to do tests/vaccinations?

Yes, as a DVM with additional training in Chinese Medicine, she can do everything a traditional vet does... and more. . She can do all the same tests and vaccinations (or should be able to), but when it comes to treatment, she can choose either conventional or non-conventional, or a combination.

Our holistic vet uses both, does vaccinations, has all the same diagnostic capabilities, x-ray equipment, etc.

To chime in on the "fresh" question: when l took my kitten's stool sample for testing, l used a baggie inside out as a glove and pulled it into the baggie so l wasn't touching the sample with the scoop. l put it in the fridge until l went to the vet.

Okay, thank you all again.  Took Charlie to the vet, and I must say the frustration has just built on... Spent $250 on some blood work and fecal tests. (I took in 3 big piles in separate baggies).  The blood work came back and had results of low white blood cell counts, which the vet claims to be a sign of an infection possibly somewhere (and means MORE testing).  I've yet to get ANY answers which is really killing me and Kelly.  It's rough seeing Charlie in such a state with NO answers... They're doing a "GI Panel" tomorrow?  And I think I'm reading a "Fecal Culture"?  They also mentioned something like Toxoplasmosis?  FeLV and FIV have been ruled out (came back negative) and now they're also testing for FIP?  And there's a note on Coronavines?  It looks like.  Oh and SIBO (Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth).  I'm literally just reading Charlie's records from the vet.  The vet talked so fast and threw out so many medical terms I just simply could not keep up.  They claim that tomorrow will give us an answer for if he has EPI IBD and some of our other concerns.

ANY help or advice or input or ANYTHING is going to make me feel better (as long as it's positive of course, but don't hide any negatives from me!)  They gave him a pill (we give him 1/2 with 2 of his meals).  Hard to read doctor scribble but it appears to be "Clindamyun" and it's being used as an empirical treatment in CASE he has something specific (I couldn't tell you what she said).

Please bring me some good news!

The bacterial overgrowth is something I think I mentioned that goes with IBD. He sure did throw a lot at you!!!! Jeez! I'm sure he wants to rule some things out but I'm wondering at this point if it may be better to take him to that holistic vet. 

finnlacey said:

The bacterial overgrowth is something I think I mentioned that goes with IBD. He sure did throw a lot at you!!!! Jeez! I'm sure he wants to rule some things out but I'm wondering at this point if it may be better to take him to that holistic vet. 

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Get the test results, see what the vet has to say, and consider taking Charlie and his file to the holistic vet.

Here's info on Clindamycin: http://www.petcarerx.com/medications/guides/11249/clindamycin I'm not familiar with it, but one day of an oral antibiotic seems a little strange to me. :dk:

OK - another red flag for this vet. There IS no testing for FIP. FIP is a mutation of the coronavirus. The coronavirus is the same virus as the common cold. All they can do is a coronavirus titre count - and a high number does NOT mean FIP!!!! We went through this with our cats when we were first involved in rescue. Our regular vet was out of town, we saw a different vet at the practice, and due to his "concern" that the sick kitty we brought in might have FIP, we brought in ALL of our other cats - who were put in QUARANTINE at the vet hospital while they "tested" for FIP. The titres came back really high for a couple of cats, and low for others.... 10 years later, no one had FIP, and it cost us a pretty penny and a LOT of fear and worry - for nothing. When our regular vet came back from vacation, he basically apologized and explained... the tests mean NOTHING. Period. Here's a thread where someone else was scared by their vet, and discussion of how FIP actually gets diagnosed. It is ONLY a combination of symptoms that can lead to a diagnosis, and even then there's no way to be sure. http://www.thecatsite.com/t/253003/fip-test-results-im-terrified-please-help-me-figure-this-out He's eating? Playing? Is his belly visibly distended? Did they do an x-ray to look for fluid accumulation in his abdomen? If he's eating, playing, and they didn't do an x-ray... I'm thinking FIP is very, very unlikely.

So after all of that... no B12 shot?

Bottom line? You need the blood work results to know if there's any issue with diabetes or any of his organs (unlikely). You need the fecal test results to know if there's any nasty bacteria/parasites that need to be treated. Toxo can happen in a kitten with a compromised immune system, but most cats actually don't get sick from toxo: http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/toxo.html Bottom line - did your kitty have a fever? If not, it's unlikely the infection is toxo, IMO.

Personally, I suspect your kitty has bacterial overgrowth, or perhaps giardia, coccidia, or T. foetus. It MAY be IBD (food sensitivities).

I would still recommend the same things I did: DiaGel, the slippery elm bark/aloe vera juice/probiotic concoction 2x a day mixed in his wet food. Keep him on the high protein/no grain/low carb diet... and schedule an appointment with the holistic vet for later this week when you'd have all the test results in and can take a copy of Charlie's file WITH test results with you. Vibes for Charlie!

Laurie makes all great points and clarifies what I was thinking! She's better at articulating some of this stuff. Keep in mind that even if it's not IBD now, bacterial overgrowth and some of those parasites can cause IBD later if its not gotten under control now. 

The Clindamyacin is for 2 weeks.

YES!  They want to test for high titre amounts.  Should I tell them NOT to do this since it's pointless and reflects a common cold, which is CLEAR he has a much larger issue than a common cold...?  

YES!  His belly is visibly distended!  He had a lower temp before, but now today they claimed he was at a good temp.  I'm not sure about x-rays?  He plays and runs every so often, but after the vet today he's sleeping and seeping poo rapidly.  Though I think it's slowed down.

No B12's... Again... Should I request these?

I'm going to call to find out EXACTLY what they're testing for tomorrow and I'll post what I find out.

There's really no point in the "FIP test" as even if he has high titers for coronavirus it doesn't mean he has FIP. If they haven't charged you for it yet I think I'd cancel it. If it comes back high it'll just scare you unnecessarily. It doesn't mean anything. If it were FIP I don't think he'd have lasted this long. . .a distended belly can be caused by lots of things and usually a kitty with FIP is quite ill, not eating or playing, etc.

I think getting him to the holistic vet would probably be the most useful.

And I totally second this:

I would still recommend the same things I did: DiaGel, the slippery elm bark/aloe vera juice/probiotic concoction 2x a day mixed in his wet food. Keep him on the high protein/no grain/low carb diet... and schedule an appointment with the holistic vet for later this week when you'd have all the test results in and can take a copy of Charlie's file WITH test results with you.

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Now that he's on antibiotics the probiotics are especially important.

I would cancel the titre test, I see no point in paying for it personally.

And you would know if they did x-rays - they'd have told you, taken him from the room, and gone over the results with you. But his distended belly could easily be from bloat due to parasites or bacterial overgrowth.

And I agree - since the clindamycin is for 2 weeks, it is almost imperative that he be on probiotics. I wouldn't wait to order them online - stop at a health food store, and ask for their best human acidophilus or acidophilus+bifidus supplement. :nod: (And as long as you're there, ask for slippery elm bark powder - best if they sell it loose, and George's aloe vera juice. ). Just make sure that you give the probiotic at least 2 hours after (or before) the antibiotic.

I still find this toxo thing odd. Fever and loss of appetite are the two main signs of illness from infection.

And the poor baby... his diarrhea is likely worse from the antibiotic and the stress of the vet visit. :rub: