TotW venison and salmon

bastfriend · Jan 7, 2013

Hi all, I'd like to get some of your thoughts about this food. I got it because I read so many raves about it here and I wanted to get a high protein, grain free moderate cost food for my feral Hercules. I offered samples of it to my two indoor cats and they made it clear they weren't very interested in it. I put some in a corner of Hercules' bowl next to most his old kibble and checking an hour later it looked like he'd hardly touched the TotW. So now I wonder did I buy the wrong flavor? I cannot watch Herc's poops to see how it agrees with him and I'm nervous now to switch over since nobody seems enthusiastic. Oh part of my reason for considering the switch is that I'd like for him to have a food that fuels him with less volume eaten - that will reduce the amount of time he spends at the food bowl and increase his safety/security as I don't have a really private place to feed him. Oh his current food is Purina One Beyond chicken & oat.

minka · Jan 7, 2013

Flavor shouldn't really be a factor in what food you buy, so much as the ingredients. :nod:

Also comparing something that tastes like McDonalds to something that tastes like salad probably isn't fair either.

I would stick with it because A it's grain-free and B it's soy free.

ldg · Jan 7, 2013

To take Minka's point one step further, think of food for cats as you would feeding a child. A kid that's been eating Fruit Loops for breakfast every morning isn't necessarily going to like salad instead. Given a choice between the two, the child is going to choose the fruit loops. But if you want your child eating salad, you have to work at it. It'll probably take a lot of bacon bits, cheese, and salad dressing at first.

Feeding our kitties isn't much different. If we find that the food we've been feeding them isn't very healthy for them and want to change it, and they don't like it, we have to outsmart them.

Here's information that will help you understand how to choose foods: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods

And for general feline nutritional info: http://www.catinfo.org

The bottom line? Cats are obligate carnivores, and do best on a diet that is high protein and low carbohydrate - where the protein comes from animal-based sources. Fish tends to be high in minerals, which can be a problem for bladder health - it also tends to get them addicted to the strong flavor. Another issue is that it is high in histamines, and can create or result in allergies. I would still use the ToTW over the Purina, because grains and soy are both things I feel very strongly about avoiding at all cost in cat food. :rub:

THAT said... IMO, feeding ferals is different. The way I look at it, unlike my indoor cats, the ferals are only using the food I provide to supplement their diet. They are otherwise hunting, eating what they should be, so overall, their diet is pretty healthy. I use both canned and dry in winter, because the canned freezes. (In summer, I provide them with only canned food). For the dry in winter, I use a mix of a high protein, no grain food, VERY low carb dry food (EVO) and a medium-carb food with some grains (4Health, sold at Tractor Supply).

cat person · Jan 7, 2013

Bastfriend said:
Hi all, I'd like to get some of your thoughts about this food.   I got it because I read so many raves about it here and I wanted to get a high protein, grain free moderate cost food for my feral Hercules.    I offered samples of it to my two indoor cats and they made it clear they weren't very interested in it.

I used to feed TOTW to my domestics and hybrid exotic cats. However, it gave the hybrids HORRIBLE GI issues. Having said that, these are foundation (F series) cats. The only dry food that works for them and my domestics is Evo. Specifically, the Turkey and Chicken formula. However, I also feed ALL my cats, whole live prey twice daily.

I put some in a corner of Hercules' bowl next to most his old kibble and checking an hour later it looked like he'd hardly touched the TotW.   So now I wonder did I buy the wrong flavor?

I used to feed this version of TOTW: http://www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com/products/cats/dry_food/rocky_mountain_feline_formula/

I cannot watch Herc's poops to see how it agrees with him and I'm nervous now to switch over since nobody seems enthusiastic.     Oh part of my reason for considering the switch is that I'd like for him to have a food that fuels him with less volume eaten - that will reduce the amount of time he spends at the food bowl and increase his safety/security as I don't have a really private place to feed him.   Oh his current food is Purina One Beyond chicken & oat.

Just my

, I think that TOTW is better then the prior food. I also must commend you, for, spending your time and money feeding a feral cat

.

bastfriend · Jan 7, 2013

A quick reply for now....

- I was concerned by the lack of enthusiasm because so many have posted that their cats LOVE TotW....wondering where's the love? Do I have a bad bag of it? I don't want to risk GI issues because I have no way to tell if he has them, is there a safer food one would recommend?

- Herc isn't a typical feral - he was fed daily from kittenhood by my former neighbor until a couple months ago. It breaks my heart she never took him or tamed him. He eats 3/4 to an entire cup of dry a day - he's huge. I'm sure he hunts because I've seen him out there stalking things, but I'd be surprised if he puts his back into it!

sevenwonders · Jan 7, 2013

Slightly less expensive than TOTW, you could try 4Health (Tractor Supply.)

I used to feed that to my Ferals (along with Friskies Poultry Platter wet)

but I switched to Evolve (WalMart or PetFoodDirect) as the ingredients and price are similar,

but for whatever reason the Evolve smells really "good" to me

while the 4Health stinks like a cheap grocery store brand.

That might not be significant, but I decided to stop feeding 4Health when I noticed the smell.

BTW, neither of these contain corn, wheat or soy.

minka · Jan 7, 2013

I don't think you have a bad bag. Like was said, the only reason he doesn't love it is probably because his previous food tastes better because it's sprayed with more animal fat or whatever, and so he doesn't appreciate the more nutritious TOTW.
Just give it some time ^^

bastfriend · Jan 8, 2013

Thanks Sevenwonders and Minka. I still am going to try him on a few other brands, maybe Indigo Moon or Nature's Variety Instinct as my pet store has a generous return policy. I'm also wondering if it ain't broke maybe I shouldn't fix it? The ingredients on the Purina One Beyond don''t look that bad.....I'd love to hear your thoughts on these:

http://www.purinaone.com/products/c...ole-oat-meal-recipe#ingredients-and-nutrition

INGREDIENTS: Chicken, chicken meal, whole brown rice, soybean meal, whole barley, whole oat meal, soy protein isolate, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), dried yeast, dried egg product, natural flavor, dried beet pulp, fish oil, phosphoric acid, caramel color, dried carrots, salt, calcium carbonate, dried sweet potatoes, dried apples, potassium chloride, taurine, choline chloride, Vitamin E supplement, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, niacin, manganese sulfate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite. B-4260

minka · Jan 8, 2013

Like was said, grain and soy are both things we think you should avoid and that food has both. Grains are hard to digest and soy can cause thyroid issues.
It also has a measly 37% protein (most of which is probably from the grains too..) and a whopping 38% carbohydrates.
The other ingredients that are questionable are: chicken meal (if you are worried about rendered meats [aka might have 4D animals]), whole brown rice, soybean meal, whole barley, whole oat meal, soy protein isolate, natural flavor, dried beet pulp, caramel color, dried carrots (cats cant convert beta-carotene into vitamin A, so it's just another source of carbs), salt and menadione sodium bisulfite (controversial but not proven)
In conclusion: No, I would not say the ingredients don't look bad.

However, like LDG said, if this is only used to supplement the diet of a feral cat that is eating wildlife as well, it's probably fine.
If you think you will take him in eventually/try to domesticate him, I would get him acclimated to better foods now.
:nod:

bastfriend · Jan 8, 2013

Thanks Minka for your analysis - I had a feeling you'd find some issues with the ingredients! Where are you looking for protein and carb percentages? On the link I gave you it says 33% protein (granted even worse than 37) and I see no mention of carb percentage. How do you know what percentage of the protein comes from the meat?

About the Totw I'm sure it is overall a better food but I'm not willing to force a cat to eat a food they won't touch at all. And that's what happened with all three of them which is why I wonder if I got a bad bag. One of my cats is very adventurous and eat crazy things so it was odd he wouldn't try it. Anyway, I'm not giving up on getting a higher quality food in the mix just want one that they like a tiny bit.

minka · Jan 8, 2013

Bastfriend said:
Thanks Minka for your analysis - I had a feeling you'd find some issues with the ingredients! Where are you looking for protein and carb percentages? On the link I gave you it says 33% protein (granted even worse than 37) and I see no mention of carb percentage. How do you know what percentage of the protein comes from the meat?

I converted protein to Dry Matter Basis, so that's why it looks different. Basically you take the amount of protein (33%) divided by the amount of dry matter in the food (100 - 12% moisture = 88%) and that gives you 37% which is what the food actually has.
For carbs, you basically take 100 and minus the protein, fat, fiber, moisture and ash (if it doesn't list that, I just use 3%) and then use the dry matter equation. ^^

About the Totw I'm sure it is overall a better food but I'm not willing to force a cat to eat a food they won't touch at all. And that's what happened with all three of them which is why I wonder if I got a bad bag. One of my cats is very adventurous and eat crazy things so it was odd he wouldn't try it. Anyway, I'm not giving up on getting a higher quality food in the mix just want one that they like a tiny bit.

Here's two ways to look at it:
1.If your vet said 'you must feed this food or your cat will die', you wouldn't stop to consider whether your cat liked it. You would just feed it.
2. If your kid didn't like veggies, you wouldn't just say 'oh well' and never feed him any.

It's all fine and dandy to want something your cats enjoy, but many, many, Many of us have had cats that look at the brand new healthy food we put down in front of them and turn away. But that doesn't mean we should give up. If you are truly worried about flavor, you can always add toppers: freeze dried meat, fortiflora or other tasty treats, until Hercules gets the idea.
:nod:

I just don't want you to go around buying 12 different bags of food, just to find out that he only wants his Purina back. :lol3: :hugs:

bastfriend · Jan 8, 2013

Aha, that's some fancy math there Minka! Good to know. They really should put that information on the packages - I know there's a similar calculation needed to get the phosphorous amount in the food I'd like to learn to do. So clearly the Purina Beyond would like to appear a healthy holistic food but isn't quite there.... As for trying at least one other food than TotW I'm sticking to my guns on that one. My Big Guy (indoor taste tester) has eaten Wellness, Blue Buffalo, Organix, Wysong, Orijen, and Nature's Variety Instinct without turning up his nose in the past. While I wouldn't go out and buy 12 different kinds of food to compare to the Purina, one or two isn't beyond reason in my book especially when I've got some good brands I know are more palatable from the past. In any case thank you for your help!!!

minka · Jan 8, 2013

All of those other brands are great, go with one of those!

TotW venison and salmon

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