They had it for 41 cents a can the other day at PetSmart. They honor competitor coupons as well so w/ a Petco 20% off, I stocked up.
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Matt's refusing all wet food but cheap brands.......and can eat corn now????
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But why would you WANT to follow that recommendation? If you know about what cats need everything should be screaming to stay away. Dental kibble is Not going to solve Matt's dental issues.
It depends upon what the dental kibble is treated with
Dental kibble is crap.
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Matt's teeth get worse with every month, and the vet swears dental kibble will help...could even avoid him having to go in for a cleaning......
Sassy Died last February when I took her in for a cleaning...the aenesthatic stopped her heart......and I'm TERRIFIED to let another cat go under aenesthetic for anything short of an emergency. I don't want to lose him too...........I'll do anything to help his teeth-even feed kibble
I'm so sorry. :heart2: 
But if you're already brushing his teeth, the dental kibble would be such a tiny incremental thing with all the health risks of feeding a low quality, species-inappropriate diet, no? :dk:
Nothing can replace annual dentals - nothing. (Again, I'm so sorry! ).
What about using one or some of the various oral treatments for cats? There are various sprays and gels you rub on his teeth and gums to help prevent the build-up of bacteria (which is what becomes plaque/tartar).
To my knowledge, there is nothing that will REMOVE existing plaque/tartar OTHER than a dental, done under anesthesia. It's only once their teeth have been cleaned that we can slow the progress of build-up....
But if you're already brushing his teeth, the dental kibble would be such a tiny incremental thing with all the health risks of feeding a low quality, species-inappropriate diet, no? :dk:
Nothing can replace annual dentals - nothing. (Again, I'm so sorry!
).What about using one or some of the various oral treatments for cats? There are various sprays and gels you rub on his teeth and gums to help prevent the build-up of bacteria (which is what becomes plaque/tartar).
To my knowledge, there is nothing that will REMOVE existing plaque/tartar OTHER than a dental, done under anesthesia. It's only once their teeth have been cleaned that we can slow the progress of build-up....
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I don't think the cleaning necessarily needs to be done under anesthesia, does it? It just takes a long time and the cats don't stay still. Maybe if you had a tooth scaler, you could do it yourself a little at a time, if the vet shows you how. I've never done it, but I know of people doing this with their dogs, anyway.
The nutritional value doesn't change with a dental coating. Low quality food is low quality food. Whatever it's coated with can be applied some other way or some other method of teeth-cleaning can be used instead. I don't see how it could possibly hold a candle to tooth brushing in either case.
The nutritional value doesn't change with a dental coating. Low quality food is low quality food. Whatever it's coated with can be applied some other way or some other method of teeth-cleaning can be used instead. I don't see how it could possibly hold a candle to tooth brushing in either case.
It really does have to be done under anesthetic. . .they can't get up under the gum line unless the cat is out, and the polishing. . .forget it. There really is no substitute for a thorough dental cleaning.
Maybe if you find a vet who only uses inhalant anesthetic? It's WAY safer than injected drugs and if you also have pre-op bloodwork done I think you couldn't get much safer.
I believe dental kibble does have its place. I cannot prove this theory with a study any more then then people that are against it.
I know that my cats breath has gotten significantly worse and that was before AND after a dental. His teeth were never like that on kibble... you do the math.
I know that my cats breath has gotten significantly worse and that was before AND after a dental. His teeth were never like that on kibble... you do the math.
They do non-anesthetic dentals for cats, and I do NOT recommend it. They're trained in how to settle cats, that is not the issue. Our recently rescued feral Chumley, who we still couldn't even pet with our hands, was a perfect patient. It's quick, and his teeth looked great after it was done.
BUT
When he had his next dental - a regular anesthetic dental - he had to have three teeth removed. The vet said there is no possible way the rotten teeth developed after his non-anesthetic dental, the problems were clearly there at the time of the non-anesthetic dental. But because they can't "get up" under there to see what's going on, they didn't identify the problem. His teeth may or may not have needed to be removed at the time of his non-anesthetic dental, there's no way to know, just as there's no way to know if a proper cleaning could have prevented the need to have his teeth removed. I DO know that he was in horrible pain for the ENTIRE time between his non-anesthetic dental and his regular dental, because those problems with his teeth were painful. But at the time he was a 3 or 4 year old feral cat, trained to not show any pain, and eat for survival.
Please - have dentals done properly under anesthesia and regularly.
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Sorry if this has been mentioned, but I am too short on time to read all 30 posts...
although I personally LOVE the taste of corn,
I have almost completely quit eating it because
over 90%of American corn is now Genetically Modified.
Much of that is being sprayed directly with glyphosate.
Other varieties have pesticide included in the DNA.
(And, you can rest assured that few pet food companies are going to pay extra for Organic corn!)
Search "GMO Corn Dangers" on the web for many sobering studies
showing the effects that Genetically modified corn has on animals who eat it.
(Then substitute the word "soy" for "corn" and search again.)
NO WAY will I ever allow my Kitties to eat corn.
although I personally LOVE the taste of corn,
I have almost completely quit eating it because
over 90%of American corn is now Genetically Modified.
Much of that is being sprayed directly with glyphosate.
Other varieties have pesticide included in the DNA.
(And, you can rest assured that few pet food companies are going to pay extra for Organic corn!)
Search "GMO Corn Dangers" on the web for many sobering studies
showing the effects that Genetically modified corn has on animals who eat it.
(Then substitute the word "soy" for "corn" and search again.)
NO WAY will I ever allow my Kitties to eat corn.
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I call coincidence.
After so many years of good dental health, Bo finally developed dental issues. Some cats get lucky like that. But when you think about the fact that the majority of cats eat kibble, and thousands of cats need dentals each year.. How could the kibble possibly be helping?
In my experience, it's only those feeding frankenprey that see consistently cleaner teeth on their cats. :nod:
I believe my cat has a true celiac condition embedded in her IBD. She can eat corn until it's coming out of her ears, (no pun intended), but I have given her wheat, barley and oatmeal (in wet food!), that has thrown her into a tailspin (again, no pun intended). Corn may be genetically modified, but what isn't, tomatoes, lettuce, spinach, everything is. This is why not only our cats, but we, have such an increase with all these intestinal problems. I can't go one hour of TV without seeing an ad for indigestion. Why did they start putting grain in cat food in the first place? That is a question I ask myself every day. My cat eats Friskies Fancy Feast, pate only. But, I will give her the Friskies big can if she won't eat. There is no grain in that. Maybe more than I would like, but if she eats it, she gets it. Another way to look at the corn: the man at the end of my street raises beef cattle. He grows feed corn for them. He has a colony of cats that "take care" of the mice eating the corn. Cat eats mice, cat gets corn, nature. The reason my Angel gets dry food with corn, is because dry is her favorite, favorite! She could be starving to death, I open fourteen cans of different food, and she'll hold out for the kibble. I do what I can. She will not eat expensive food, tried IT ALL! She actually would prefer the "junk" to the expensive, fresh or "people" food.
As far as the teeth issue, do get them cleaned and checked out! I was terrified of anesthesia for my Charlie too, but he just underwent radiation therapy this last year, and was forced to be anesthetized a total of 17 times. 12 of them were quickies, put out, revive. But, if you trust your vet, you should be OK.
As far as the teeth issue, do get them cleaned and checked out! I was terrified of anesthesia for my Charlie too, but he just underwent radiation therapy this last year, and was forced to be anesthetized a total of 17 times. 12 of them were quickies, put out, revive. But, if you trust your vet, you should be OK.
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I dont think its coincidence (jmo). Mia has only been on canned for 1 week and her breath is getting bad. Before on just kibble, I never noticed bad breath ( and I kiss her on the nose everymorning so I would have noticed). lolI call coincidence.
After so many years of good dental health, Bo finally developed dental issues. Some cats get lucky like that. But when you think about the fact that the majority of cats eat kibble, and thousands of cats need dentals each year.. How could the kibble possibly be helping?
In my experience, it's only those feeding frankenprey that see consistently cleaner teeth on their cats.
Yes, this ^
It's not that I'm advocating kibble. I don't like it anymore then members on here BUT my cat did start to get REALLY stinky break on wet. Maybe I'll take him in for another dental...? Maybe they didn't catch something?
Just to be accurate, cat eats mice, cat gets nutrition from the grain the mouse ate from its muscles, bones, and organs. The stomach content is a very small portion. From a study of feral cat diets around the world:
"As described above, the cat’s metabolism has adapted to a carnivorous lifestyle with many of the known adaptations relating to the protein, carbohydrate and vitamin component of the diet. Almost all the metabolic adaptations related to the carbohydrate component of the diet indicate the lack of this nutrient in the evolutionary diet. It could be argued that the shift from an obligatory meat-based natural diet to a meat-based and grain-based pet food rich in carbohydrates may place the cat’s metabolism under stress, and might have unwanted negative health effects in the long run. Although dietary carbohydrate intake could not directly be determined in the present study, the NFE content was calculated. The fraction consists of components such as sugars, starches, mono and disaccharides, but also water-soluble vitamins. Animal tissue itself contains small amounts of glucose, glycogen, glycoproteins, glycolipid and pentose but does not contain starch. However, when consuming whole prey, the digesta of prey items may contain some starch. These carbohydrate sources may be the reason why cats have retained a limited ability to digest starch. The starch content of prey species is difficult to assess, as it is primarily based on the diet consumed. However, as an example, the following calculation provides an indication of the magnitude of starch ingestion by feral cats. The starch content of the digesta of captive young rabbits can be up to 130 g/kg DM, depending on the starch source(55). Assuming that the mean starch content of the digesta is approximately 100 g/kg DM, digesta moisture content 80%(56) and the digesta mass of rabbits 10%(57), the calculated starch content of a rabbit weighing 1·5 kg is 3·0 g (0·2% body weight). Wild rabbits forage primarily on grasses and leafy weeds, with high contents of fibre and relatively low contents of starch, making the latter a large overestimate. Prey species consumed by cats show considerable differences in digestive tract anatomy, with the digesta mass of rabbits being as high as 10% of body mass(57), while omnivorous species such as the rat have a digesta mass of 0·5–2% of body weight(58). The ability of cats to secrete pancreatic amylase may be beneficial in utilising the glycogen content of prey. Based on the above calculations, it can be concluded that the NFE content reported in the present study contains little starch and as such is composed of other fibrous material..."
NFE = Nitrogen-free extract (meaning non-protein related, so carbs/starch/sugars/water soluble vitamins).
The carb/starch/sugar content ("NFE") of the feral cat diets on a dry matter basis was just 2.8%, and as the study states, "it can be concluded that the NFE content reported in the present study contains little starch." Corn is 70% starch. http://www.corn.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/CornRefiningProcess.pdf
Now, corn is rarely used whole - it's primarily used as corn gluten meal (the protein). No surprise, the corn gluten meal isn't as digestible to the cat as meat meal or chicken meal:
From a study discussion:
"Not only the quantity but also the quality of protein in diets is important for maintaining the health of cats, because the quality affects the utilization of nutrients including protein. Our previous study revealed that cats fed a dry diet containing MM exhibited higher digestibility and utilization of nutrients than those fed a diet containing CGM, suggesting the superiority of MM as a protein source for dry cat food (5). However, inclusion of MM in cat food has been prohibited since the occurrence of bovine spongiform encephalopathy in Japan in 2001. Hence, protein sources that are safe and nutritionally equivalent to MM are required for the production of commercial dry cat food. In the present study, the nutritional value of CM was compared with that of MM and CGM using adult cats. The results showed that dry-matter digestibility and N utilization of CM are intermediate, as compared with those of MM and CGM. These results suggest that CM is superior to CGM and may be an appropriate substitute for MM, as a protein source of dry food for adult cats."
MM = meat meal
CM = chicken meal
CGM = corn gluten meal
The feral cat diet study: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8404219
Plantinga et al 2011. Estimation of the dietary nutrient profile of free-roaming feral cats: possible implications for nutrition of domestic cats; British Journal of Nutrition / Volume 106 / Supplement S1 / October 2011, pp S35-S48
The meat meal/chicken meal/corn gluten meal study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1250243/
Funaba et al 2005. Evaluation of meat meal, chicken meal, and corn gluten meal as dietary sources of protein in dry cat food; Can J Vet Res. 2005 October; 69(4): 299–304.
Because commercial cat food was adapted from commercial dog food - and it's cheaper.
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I won't refuse a dental if the vet says he needs it....I'm just terribly afraid. Matt's teeth were not that bad when I got him, the tartar build-up began in earnest when I put him on wet food(yes I know wet food is better, that's why I put him on it) I know one thing, I'll be paying extra for a full work-up on his blood to make sure there's nothing underlying that might crop up at his appointment........it doesn't make any sense for Sassy's heart to stop like it did, she was only7.....and so happy, and sleek when I dropped her off. Not even the vet knows why she died....
Because the first cat foods were dry, and dry food needed a binder to keep it together, aka, grains, potatoes, etc. That's the reason you never see a dry food Without any kind of plant material; it has to have some to keep it together. And from spoiling.
:nod:
She likes the junk because it tastes better. A fruit loops vs raisin brand kind of deal.
This discussion is very interesting. I admit to not knowing that much about feline dental health. No vet has ever recommended I brush my cats` teeth nor have they ever recommended a cleaning. They examine the cats' teeth during the check-up and say they look fine. I just took a look at all my cats' teeth myself, though, and the two kittens have nice white teeth (as expected) and 7-year-old Hester has yellow molars! Now I wonder if the vets I've seen just say fine because her teeth aren't rotten or causing pain. Maybe I should request a dental cleaning.
I only recently started playing around with my cats' mouths and rubbing their teeth with the idea of working up to brushing their teeth. I'd like to keep the kittens' teeth nice and pearly white.
I only recently started playing around with my cats' mouths and rubbing their teeth with the idea of working up to brushing their teeth. I'd like to keep the kittens' teeth nice and pearly white.
Kitties can have all the same issues people do with their teeth and gums. A large part of it is genetic - though just like with people, diet and dental hygiene play a role.
All of our vets (we work with three vets at three different practices) recommend annual dentals. We haven't kept up with it for all 8 cats, but we do try to have dentals done for everyone at least once every two years, and for two cats that have dental issues, every year or six months, depending on the what the vet sees and recommends.
Here's a short article on the relationship between oral health and overall health: http://www.webmd.com/oral-health/gum-disease-health
It discusses the issue in people, but it's the same for animals - better overall health if good oral health.
All of our vets (we work with three vets at three different practices) recommend annual dentals. We haven't kept up with it for all 8 cats, but we do try to have dentals done for everyone at least once every two years, and for two cats that have dental issues, every year or six months, depending on the what the vet sees and recommends.
Here's a short article on the relationship between oral health and overall health: http://www.webmd.com/oral-health/gum-disease-health
It discusses the issue in people, but it's the same for animals - better overall health if good oral health.
