Plastic bags gone???

Actual research has shown that the elimination of plastic bags is not the all-good situation it looks like at first. It probably is an environmental benefit overall, but not the slam dunk it looks like at first blush.

mrblanche said:

Actual research has shown that the elimination of plastic bags is not the all-good situation it looks like at first. It probably is an environmental benefit overall, but not the slam dunk it looks like at first blush.

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How is it not all good if it benefits the environment??

One thing I can think of, looking at my reusable bags (just the cheap ones, I haven't sprung for the nice cloth ones yet) is that these bags are made of some kind of plastic. And manufacturing them is certain to add some kind of burden to the environment (I don't know how that compares to manufacturing dispoable plastic bags). Even cloth has an environmental burden (pesticides, fuel, topsoil loss, etc.). The reusable bags don't last forever; I've had to throw one away for getting holes and another one's handles are starting to fall off. So how many disposable bags does it take to equal one reusable bag? How many uses do I need to get out of a woven polypropylene bag before it's "worth it"? How many uses from a cloth bag? I have no idea :dk:.

Baggers seem to feel that "re-usuable" bags must be packed to the very hilt. I cannot carry a standard size reusable shopping bag that has been filled by a bagger. I tried, just once. I had to unpack it from the cart into my trunk, I couldn't even lift it into the trunk. Then I had to carry things into the house individually.

Customers are not encouraged to bag their own groceries here. And, even using plastic bags provided by the store, I ask that the bagger not pack them too heavy. The result? Always packed too heavy. The fact is, after I check out I usually grab a couple more bags, and stop and repack the bags in my cart before I leave the store. Because they are ALWAYS packed too heavy.

As for the yuck factor: sure there are germs everywhere. Which, in my opinion, is a good reason to avoid what you can, since most, you can't :lol3:. It is my own personal feeling that reusing shopping bags for groceries without washing in between uses is gross. And I have enough to do, without worrying about washing my grocery bags. And of course frequent washing will wear them out quickly, so you have to get new ones. Where is the benefit or savings in all that work?

AND, like millions of other people, I utilize grocery bags for other purposes. Which, I might add, could be considered beneficial to the environment (and my budget), since I do not purchase additional plastic garbage bags, which, incidentally are packed in cardboard making even more trash.

otto said:

Customers are not encouraged to bag their own groceries here. And, even using plastic bags provided by the store, I ask that the bagger not pack them too heavy. The result? Always packed too heavy. The fact is, after I check out I usually grab a couple more bags, and stop and repack the bags in my cart before I leave the store. Because they are ALWAYS packed too heavy.
 

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I'm glad that here the stores do encourage you to pack your own bags.  I pack them pretty well but never too heavy.  Also if the items are heavy I double bag them, they have never stopped me from doing that so I take advantage of that. 

otto said:

Reusable "cloth" grocery bags are unsanitary, unless you wash them after every single use.
That's not very environmentally friendly, is it?

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I wash mine in with my normal clothes washing once a week, it's very simple. 

Because of sanitary reasons, the grocery stores here put packages of meat in plastic bags before putting them in the cloth (or woven plastic) bags. I'm not sure how that saves anything.

It still results in less plastic in the garbage than what would end up there if all groceries were sent home in plastic bags.

StealthKitty said:

It still results in less plastic in the garbage than what would end up there if all groceries were sent home in plastic bags.

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I don't think it does result in less plastic in the garbage. If I (and apparently a lot of other people) don't get the plastic bag free from the store I will have to buy some to use. The same amount of bags are still going in the garbage, only difference is now they aren't free.

I was replying to SwampWitch's post about wrapping packages of meat in plastic bags before placing them in reusable bags. If only a portion of your groceries are sent home in plastic (in this case, the meat), less plastic is getting thrown out than if all of your groceries were sent home in disposable plastic bags.

If you are paying money for plastic bags, you might think about investing in reusable ones instead. Isn't that the point of making people pay for the plastic ones? So they think twice about how many they use?

Personally, we reuse the biodegradable plastic bags we get from the stores to line our garbage bins. So in our case, if the stores stopped providing them, we'd have to buy plastic bags to use as liners. But that's just our personal situation. Many other people just throw them away after one use. Other posters here have made it clear that we have to look at the bigger picture when determining if an action results in environmental benefit.

StealthKitty said:

I was replying to SwampWitch's post about wrapping packages of meat in plastic bags before placing them in reusable bags. If only a portion of your groceries are sent home in plastic (in this case, the meat), less plastic is getting thrown out than if all of your groceries were sent home in disposable plastic bags.

If you are paying money for plastic bags, you might thing about investing in reusable ones instead. Isn't that the point of making people pay for the plastic ones? So they think twice about how many they use?

Personally, we reuse the biodegradable plastic bags we get from the stores to line our garbage bins. So in our case, if the stores stopped providing them, we'd have to buy plastic bags to use as liners. But that's just our personal situation. Many other people just throw them away after one use. Other posters here have made it clear that we have to look at the bigger picture when determining if an action results in environmental benefit.

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Less plastic is not getting thrown out, because I will have to use purchased plastic bags to throw out trash that would have gone in the free store bags. Same amount of bags end up in trash can regardless.

I'm not paying money YET for the store bags. Paying for them won't make a difference in how many I use because I use them for litter. I won't store poop and urine in my house to save a nickel waiting for the bag to fill up. I care about the environment but I also want a clean house without bags of waste material collecting in it.

I'm saying the same thing you are in your last paragraph. If the stores stopped providing them, I'd have to buy plastic bags to use.

The point I'm trying to make is this: There is a certain number of bags in my trash can each week. The number will be the same whether they're free or purchased. Environmentally it makes no difference as the amount of bags in the trash is the same.

As far as looking at the bigger picture, I can only give my opinion. I don't know what effect this will have on others. I thought that was the point of a forum like this. Someone brings up a topic and we share our opinions.

smitten4kittens said:

Less plastic is not getting thrown out, because I will have to use purchased plastic bags to throw out trash that would have gone in the free store bags. Same amount of bags end up in trash can regardless.
I'm not paying money YET for the store bags. Paying for them won't make a difference in how many I use because I use them for litter. I won't store poop and urine in my house to save a nickel waiting for the bag to fill up. I care about the environment but I also want a clean house without bags of waste material collecting in it.
I'm saying the same thing you are in your last paragraph. If the stores stopped providing them, I'd have to buy plastic bags to use.
The point I'm trying to make is this: There is a certain number of bags in my trash can each week. The number will be the same whether they're free or purchased. Environmentally it makes no difference as the amount of bags in the trash is the same.

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Stores that are charging for or doing away with plastic grocery bags aren't interested in being environmentally friendly. They are interested in the bottom line. I'm sure the price of groceries has always included mark up to cover such overhead expenses as the bags provided. Some stores have simply decided they are no longer going to provide that service because they can make more money if they don't. Don't look for the price of the groceries to drop in those stores however.

We agree on at least one point: charging for bags will not change how many bags are used in certain cases. Having to pay for bags to use as bin liners or poop bags could be an annoying inconvenience, I completely understand that; but I have yet to see any points here that prove that it doesn't reduce the overall amount of bags that end up in the trash without being reused.

We are absolutely entitled to hold different opinions; and yes, the point of this forum is to debate, share opinions, and even to vent and whine. I thought that's what we were doing. I'm open to being swayed in my opinion, and by countering I am not in any way preventing someone from expressing theirs.

As far as having to buy one's own garbage/litter bags, there are biodegradable bags that cost about the same price as the regular plastic ones.

Like i said before, unless you like spending more money, if you start being charged for bags, it's inevitable that you will be more careful about how many you use. You will fit as many groceries as possible and you will fill each bag up with more litter before throwing it out.


I also went to the store yesterday to do my shopping, and I decided to show how much can fit in just one cloth bag

Stealthkitty, When I was talking about opinions I just meant that I can't give the opinion of the bigger picture. All I can give is my own. People were responding by telling me not everyone has a cat. I know that, but I do and I can only answer for myself and how this would impact me. This is a cat site after all.

What king of bio-degradable pet bags do you use? Last time I checked they were pricey here in the U.S.

I think you mentioned in another thread that you were looking for a new kitty. Do you have one picked out yet?

Minka, I had 2 major abdominal sugeries in 7 months. I can only carry very light bags. But I do appreciate the suggestions. I do use some cloth bags but I also use some plastic ones that I will re-use for litter.

I see where you're coming from.

No, I don't have a cat yet but when we do get one I'm planning on using these. Or perhaps something similar. They cost less than 3 cents apiece. I thought about using our regular grocery bags for tossing the litter, but we bring home so few of them that they are all dedicated to lining the garbage bins.

That's a great deal. Thanks for the tip.

You're welcome.

Minka said:

Like i said before, unless you like spending more money, if you start being charged for bags, it's inevitable that you will be more careful about how many you use. You will fit as many groceries as possible and you will fill each bag up with more litter before throwing it out.
I also went to the store yesterday to do my shopping, and I decided to show how much can fit in just one cloth bag

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As I mentioned earlier, I cannot carry heavy bags. Even when I ask the bagger not to pack them too heavy, I have to stop, grab a few extra bags and repack them before leaving the store.

And since I reuse the bags, and do not purchase trash bags EVER, for those two reasons, it is not likely I will ever want to use fewer grocery bags. If they start to charge for them, I'll take even more of my business to Amazon, including buying bags there as will many other people. Stores want to put themselves out of business, it seems. Even in the sticks, we have other options.