Pointed Russian Blue

duckdodgers

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My oldest cat, Alafair, is a Russian Blue.  Unlike most Russian Blues though, she is a blue pointed kitty with blue eyes instead of having the blue coat with green eyes.  My father found a breeder at a cat show we went to when I was a child, and surprised me with baby Alafair some time later from said breeder.  Being a person that was curious about my cat's origins I looked into the breed, but haven't ever been able to find pictures of cat similar to her. 

I was told by my dad (and have heard elsewhere) that quite some time ago the breed nearly died out and cross breeding with siamese cats was done to preserve them, and occasionally you'll get the throwback pointed cat like Alafair.  How common are these kittens?  We have a picture of Alafair as a kitten at the breeder's home sitting next to her mother (a normal looking Russian Blue) and her brother (another pointed kitten).  A number of years later I went to the same cat show and found a breeder (perhaps Alafair's) with two kittens- one pointed and one blue.  I assumed that since my dad had purchased a purebred cat she had come with registration papers, but he told me that since she is not correctly colored she was not able to be registered- is this true of these cats?  Keep in mind that this was about 17 years ago, but if this is the case, are people actively trying to avoid breeding them?  I understand that it's a recessive trait, but I believe that this breeder has produced pointed kittens on multiple separate occasions.  How common is the pointed gene in the breed?  How often do these kittens show up in litters?

Here is the polaroid picture of Alafair and her kitty family from the breeder.  Obviously, she is the one on the left.  Mommy's in the middle, her brother is on the right, and there appears to be another little misfit kitty hiding behind the arm of the couch :p


Alafair nowadays.  She's grown up to be a very lovely and beautiful cat (if she likes you.  She likes very few people) despite not being the "ideal" Russian Blue



And Alafair and Stella just cause they're cute!

 

missymotus

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I know they were out crossed but haven't seen any CP kittens, these days breeders would test for CP carriers and not mate carrier to carrier to breed it out of their lines

Here they'd be registered with pet papers (our papers are pet, show neuter & breeding) and with most neutering before sale pets being bred from becomes a non issue
 

callista

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Seventeen years ago, though... A lot can change in that time. Maybe back then they were still using cats that weren't quite ideal, just for the sake of genetic diversity. I bet if you talked to somebody who has been breeding Russian Blues for a long time, they would know.
 

missymotus

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Seventeen years ago, though... A lot can change in that time. Maybe back then they were still using cats that weren't quite ideal, just for the sake of genetic diversity. I bet if you talked to somebody who has been breeding Russian Blues for a long time, they would know.
 I did say "[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]these days" and it's already been said Siamese were a legitimate outcross.[/color]
 

callista

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Heh, sorry, I think I haven't been paying attention to anything today. I swear, my brain just refuses to work for a week after finals are over.
 

mani

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I can't find any reference to Alafair's father.    It looks to me as though the father must have been a Siamese, Tonkinese or other breed with blue points.  I think it's incredibly unlikely that both parents were Russians.  A breeder I know who has been breeding RBs for over 10 years agrees. 

But who knows?  17 years is a while.
 

missymotus

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 I think it's incredibly unlikely that both parents were Russians.  
Because the CP gene is recessive, and carried forever - only showing up when meeting with another carrier both parents can be Russians, just carrying the gene from outcrossing somewhere down the line. 
 
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duckdodgers

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I can't find any reference to Alafair's father.    It looks to me as though the father must have been a Siamese, Tonkinese or other breed with blue points.  I think it's incredibly unlikely that both parents were Russians.  A breeder I know who has been breeding RBs for over 10 years agrees. 

But who knows?  17 years is a while.
I know nothing about her father.  I just have a picture of her mother and what my dad has told me about her.  I was about four years old when we got her, so I was not really concerned with her origins!  Obviously the mother must have been carrying the gene, but we don't know what the daddy looked like.
 

StefanZ

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If she had multiple points kittens, it sounds as the breeder wanted them to be produced.

Otherwise he would try to find a stud without known CP gene.

The father may have been another RUS with CP gene.  Or some similiar cat, not rus. Perhaps a balinese (longhaired siamese).

So the breeder was some sort of inofficial byb, although he did participated in shows and had surely a registry...

This your kitten dont getting her papers...  In Sweden they do get papers if you wish and pay, although the papers is not RUS variant, but XSH  Xshorthair, ie essentially saying they are a moggie.

They are not used in breeding either, and as I understand, not showed, not officially.  The trick is they are to the show hall as  companion to their pal who IS participating in the show (they are allowed to be two in the cage if you wish. Some cats prefer to have a companion).

And this way - they can be showed. Not to the judges, but to the people, afficionados and other breeders.

How common? Is a good question. 

It has become clear several of the most wellknown swedish breeders had CP gene in their best queens...  One of them who got two such kittens got severely mocked by another swedish show winner and breeder. But after some time it become clear, thanks to these modern gene tests, his leading queen, all time show winner, was herself a bearer....  After this, there was no more mocking...

There was during a longer period a hysch-hysch. Some talked even it could happen born Points were immediately pts. Others were quietly given away to friends as pets. 

This proudly showing them off as a nice trait of nature is quite new, the last 10 years.

In the time there also matured some genetical insight. Breeders try to hunt down bad genes for different sickednesses or deformities, by not using known bearers in breeding. Well and swell. But this is also a heavy burden on the gene poole, as a big part of the possible breeding animals thus cant be used for  breeding.  (and as we all know, not all purebreds are suitable for breeding. Other, suitable are becoming family pets).  The point gene, CP, although not wished, is not harmful by itself. There is healthywise, nothing wrong with the born individuals.  So, medically speaking, there is no need to hunt down the CP gene...   In breeds with a very big gene pool, like Sibirian, with thousands and thousands of healthy breeding animals as base, they can afford to hunt down also the CP gene. Which they do scropolously even 20 generations back.

In the much smaller genetic base of Russian Blue, we do not.  We merely abstain to breed known bearers with each others. As the new, official policy is.

I think the same idea is also quitetly accepted among the swedish breeders of Sibirian cats, as the base is very small here in Sweden.  Of course, born pointed Sibirians can prob be registered as Neva Masquerade. Neva Masquerade IS essentially pointed sibirians.

B.t.w. Once upon a time, in the 50´ties, born CP Rus could be registered as Siamese.  I presume they were neutered, not to bring havoc into the Siameses gene pool... Them being really russians, not siameses, inside.    :)

But it was 50, when all siameses were "siameses old type", thus  a mirror of our CP Rus.    :)

Nowadays 99% of siameses are modern siameses with these long faces.

CP Rus, with their lookish  siamese old type, are no longer their mirror...    :(
 

StefanZ

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If she had multiple points kittens, it sounds as the breeder wanted them to be produced.
There ARE some who wants to produce such pointed rus - a look alike old type siamese.

So for example, there are some breeders in Poland, who try to start a breeding programme and register a new breed with Fife, the big European association.

The problem is, they are rather amateurish. They also want to call their breed for Archangelsk Cat.

ARC.

Problem is, archangelsk cat (a city in northest russia) is the legendary place where russian blue took their beginning.  It is also the old synonyme for blue cats...

I suggested the breeder to call them for say, Murmansk Cat, or White Sea cat (city and sea in immediate vicinity to Archangelsk).  Nay, she said. Archangelsk is not yet a registered trademark, and "it fancy me to call them for Archangelsk".

It is like if I began to use MissyMotus as my signature, because it fancied me, and the nick wasnt not registered with the proper judge...

Queek!
 
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maryanna

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Alafair is truly gorgeous,but looks like Russian Blue x Siamese
 
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zuki

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Alafair is a beautiful cat! She is the first cat I've come across on this site which looks like
My new kitten Zuki. Zuki is a russian blue/ragdoll mix. If anyone can point me to a link or forum with similar mixes would be appreciated thanks!

Ps. Sorry for hijacking your thread;)
 

missymotus

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Alafair is a beautiful cat! She is the first cat I've come across on this site which looks like
My new kitten Zuki. Zuki is a russian blue/ragdoll mix. If anyone can point me to a link or forum with similar mixes would be appreciated thanks!
Ps. Sorry for hijacking your thread;)
Mixed breeding is not encouraged, or even allowed by most registering bodies, so hopefully there are not forums around for Russian x Ragdolls.

The major difference between your kitten and the OP's is that the Siamese was a legitimate outcross for the breed.  
 

zuki

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Mixed breeding is not encouraged, or even allowed by most registering bodies, so hopefully there are not forums around for Russian x Ragdolls.

The major difference between your kitten and the OP's is that the Siamese was a legitimate outcross for the breed.  
Thanks I just learnt something new. New to cats
 

mani

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Thanks I just learnt something new. New to cats
Zuki looks absolutely gorgeous... what a little stunner!  Love his/her colouring
 
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