If we're going to go into that again, I'm still curious about this question that I posted above:
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Moistening Dry Food?
- Thread starter duckdodgers
- Start Date
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I'm not clear on why you think this? How is adding water to kibble any different than rehydrating a freeze dried food? :dk:
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I used to add water to our cats canned food all the time. :nod: Definitely ups the water intake!
Yea, I don't understand it either. If a can of wet contains half a cup of water, and you add that to the same amount of dry, what's the difference??
Water is water is water.
Yes, please!
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Freeze dried 'raw' is designed to have water added to it. It is, as you say re-hydrating. It is absorbed in minutes, turning the food into what is is meant to be.
Dry food is not made with the intent of having water added to it. It does not absorb the water in minutes, in fact it takes hours, if ever. Cats are designed to take moisture from their food, not with it.
Kibble is dry food. Adding water to it does not turn it into something else, it does not make it better. It is still going to sit like a lump in the stomach for hours, causing a stomach ache that the cat will never tell you she or he has.
The way you discover that the cat was not feeling her best on kibble, is by taking the cat off the kibble, and noticing the difference.
You can't add enough water to kibble, to create the proper hydration in a cat. Adding the water will most likely reduce the amount of water the cat drinks proportionately, so you will be no further ahead.
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Ah, l see your point. When l used to feed kibble, l occasionally added water in the hope it would make gravy, but you're right, it would probably take a long, long time for the whole kibbles to become saturated, which would be desirable. Much longer than l would want to leave it out and mixed. lf it isn't saturated, then it is still going to absorb (l think this is your point? Forgive me if l'm wrong), and the cat will not feel enough thirst drive to "feed" the kibble since it ate "wet" food.
Maybe if someone can't afford to feed canned, they could crush the kibbles so they have a chance to soak up the water to the point of saturation in a timely manner.
Maybe if someone can't afford to feed canned, they could crush the kibbles so they have a chance to soak up the water to the point of saturation in a timely manner.
I don't know. . .I tried the kibble/water/canned mixture and the kibble looked pretty saturated in about 5 minutes. I might have to do an experiment.
But anyway, why would a cat eating kibble with water added need to drink more water? If, say, a cat is eating 6 ounces of canned food a day , so is consuming 4.5 ounces of water (if the food is 75% moisture) and doesn't drink any extra (which we all say is fine), and a cat is eating 1/2 cup of kibble with 4.5 ounces of water added and not drinking any extra, what's the difference? Color me confused :lol3:.
But anyway, why would a cat eating kibble with water added need to drink more water? If, say, a cat is eating 6 ounces of canned food a day , so is consuming 4.5 ounces of water (if the food is 75% moisture) and doesn't drink any extra (which we all say is fine), and a cat is eating 1/2 cup of kibble with 4.5 ounces of water added and not drinking any extra, what's the difference? Color me confused :lol3:.
The body does not know the difference... Water + food /or/ food that contains water is all absorbed the same. Once everything is broken down, there aren't special cells for absorbing water from food and others for water by itself. As long as there is the SAME amount of water it makes no difference.
Also this. My cat on canned doesn't drink ANY water. So... if I gave him dry with the same amount of water added to it as he was getting on wet.. there would be no difference.
Now, would the food be any better for the cat? No. But we aren't talking about food quality, we are talking about water quantity.
Since l'm home, bored, and have kibble that l won't allow my cats to eat, l thought l'd experiment with this idea.
l counted out 80 kibbles into each of 3 dry bowls.
The front-left bowl l put 4 teaspoons of tepid water into. The bowl beside it, l crushed the kibble, and put in the same 4 teaspoons of tepid water.
The back bowl contained the dry 80-count kibble, covered from marauding cats.
View media item 142640
This was 12:31pm when the water was added (l laid the bowls flat again once l'd taken the picture):
View media item 142641View media item 142642
At 12:52, l checked to see how much had been absorbed:
View media item 142643The crushed kibble had absorbed all the water and still had dry spots that could potentially absorb more water.
The whole kibbles on the left had not yet absorbed all the water.
l decided to add 2 more teaspoons to each of the wet bowls for a total of 6 teaspoons each, and added 6 teaspoons to the dry kibble bowl for comparison.
View media item 142644 View media item 142645
The crushed kibble had just about managed to absorb all 6 teaspoons.
The 20+minute kibble had not absorbed 4 when l added the subsequent 2, so there was a fair amount of "gravy".
The back bowl (and back left in last pic) was just starting to absorb, so was sitting in about 6 teaspoons of water.
So, what l think the kibble-and-water intake point was, is that putting water onto kibble is still going to leave the kibbles unsaturated unless they're crushed.
Canned food's water gets ingested when the food is eaten, so unless the kitty is eating all the gravy from around the kibble as well as the sodden kibble, it is not eating enough for the food to be sodden, and therefore the kibble is still somewhat "absorbent" when ingested.
l've no idea what the ratio of food/weight to water/volume is, etc, l just thought it would be fun to see if there was any difference. Maybe 6 teaspoons is too much water for 80 kibbles, maybe not enough ...
The dog enjoyed it in any case.
l counted out 80 kibbles into each of 3 dry bowls.
The front-left bowl l put 4 teaspoons of tepid water into. The bowl beside it, l crushed the kibble, and put in the same 4 teaspoons of tepid water.
The back bowl contained the dry 80-count kibble, covered from marauding cats.
View media item 142640
This was 12:31pm when the water was added (l laid the bowls flat again once l'd taken the picture):
View media item 142641View media item 142642
At 12:52, l checked to see how much had been absorbed:
View media item 142643The crushed kibble had absorbed all the water and still had dry spots that could potentially absorb more water.
The whole kibbles on the left had not yet absorbed all the water.
l decided to add 2 more teaspoons to each of the wet bowls for a total of 6 teaspoons each, and added 6 teaspoons to the dry kibble bowl for comparison.
View media item 142644 View media item 142645
The crushed kibble had just about managed to absorb all 6 teaspoons.
The 20+minute kibble had not absorbed 4 when l added the subsequent 2, so there was a fair amount of "gravy".
The back bowl (and back left in last pic) was just starting to absorb, so was sitting in about 6 teaspoons of water.
So, what l think the kibble-and-water intake point was, is that putting water onto kibble is still going to leave the kibbles unsaturated unless they're crushed.
Canned food's water gets ingested when the food is eaten, so unless the kitty is eating all the gravy from around the kibble as well as the sodden kibble, it is not eating enough for the food to be sodden, and therefore the kibble is still somewhat "absorbent" when ingested.
l've no idea what the ratio of food/weight to water/volume is, etc, l just thought it would be fun to see if there was any difference. Maybe 6 teaspoons is too much water for 80 kibbles, maybe not enough ...
OK - so if going to moisten kibble, crush it first!
It would probably work better if the water were warmer, too. Hot, even. Like noodles or rice, you know? If you used hot enough water, you could even kill some bacteria. On the other hand, if you use warm water that isn't hot enough, you could speed bacteria growth. Then again, if it absorbs the water faster, you could feed it sooner.
So, I did the moisture analysis a few weeks ago and wrote down all my results, but I lost the sheet I put them on. I think my husband threw it out because he probably had no idea what it was. I remember what the results were, so I'll put that here. Also, my phone died, which is what I was going to take video with. What I can do, is make a video showing how to replicate this test at home. I think this would be more useful, because most people don't have access to an actual moisture analyser, but they are very simple machines. If you have a kitchen scale, an oven-safe container, and an oven (or toaster oven) you can do it. I did a moisture analysis of soil at school, and this is basically what we did there, just scales and ovens. Or you could buy a moisture analyser for 3 grand, lol.
The canned food I used was Merrick's "Before Grain" Chicken. The kibble was Taste of the Wild. The water I used was from the tap, as hot as it would go, which was 60°C (140°F) in this case. How hot your tap water gets depends on your water heater settings.
[font=arial, sans-serif]The results: [/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif]The canned food[/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif] =79% moisture[/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif]Whole kibbles with as much hot water as could be absorbed in 15 minutes[/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif] =62% moisture[/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif]Kibbles with water added, left for five minutes, then stirred with a spoon to break up the kibbles, and more water added. Process repeated until no more water was absorbed (3 times/20 minutes)[/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif] =83% moisture[/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif]Plain kibbles: This is the only one I can't remember the exact number, but it was ~10% moisture[/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif]I am interested to see if boiling water could be used for better absorption, and also if boiled water reduces bacterial counts. The second part would require some plating. These moisture contents seem pretty good to me, though. Aren't mice 60% moisture? [/font]
The canned food I used was Merrick's "Before Grain" Chicken. The kibble was Taste of the Wild. The water I used was from the tap, as hot as it would go, which was 60°C (140°F) in this case. How hot your tap water gets depends on your water heater settings.
[font=arial, sans-serif]The results: [/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif]The canned food[/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif] =79% moisture[/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif]Whole kibbles with as much hot water as could be absorbed in 15 minutes[/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif] =62% moisture[/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif]Kibbles with water added, left for five minutes, then stirred with a spoon to break up the kibbles, and more water added. Process repeated until no more water was absorbed (3 times/20 minutes)[/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif] =83% moisture[/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif]Plain kibbles: This is the only one I can't remember the exact number, but it was ~10% moisture[/font]
[font=arial, sans-serif]I am interested to see if boiling water could be used for better absorption, and also if boiled water reduces bacterial counts. The second part would require some plating. These moisture contents seem pretty good to me, though. Aren't mice 60% moisture? [/font]
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Well, that has to be a tough one to nail down. On commercial food, my cats had bulky, moist stool. On raw, they have hard dry stool that is mostly hair inside with a "poop crust" on the outside, and the amount of calcium in the diet affects the consistency (meaning the moisture content).
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I'll leave that one up to you, but you could find out the same way we find out soil moisture content- weigh poop directly from cat, bake in oven, weigh baked poop to see how much weight it has lost.
Yeah, that basically is what the moisture analyser is, except that it weighs the sample continuously as it dries, therefore it knows when it has dried as much as it's going to. That makes it faster and easier to get accurate results, in other words, you know more easily that there's no more moisture left. The soil I tested was baked for several days in a moisture-controlled oven, so using a toaster oven wouldn't be exactly accurate... especially if you live in an area with high humidity.
Baking poo sounds like an outside job.
Knowing the moisture content difference between cats on different diets would, in itself, be very interesting. If cats are expelling more moisture through their bowel movements on certain diets, then you have to give them more moisture to compensate for that. For instance, even if you have a canned food with the same moisture content as a mouse, it only has the same benefit if the moisture is effectively absorbed in the large intestine.
Also, if you feed dry kibble, which I imagine would have a lower moisture content than stool, the food is actually stealing moisture from the body on its way out.
Baking poo sounds like an outside job.
Knowing the moisture content difference between cats on different diets would, in itself, be very interesting. If cats are expelling more moisture through their bowel movements on certain diets, then you have to give them more moisture to compensate for that. For instance, even if you have a canned food with the same moisture content as a mouse, it only has the same benefit if the moisture is effectively absorbed in the large intestine.
Also, if you feed dry kibble, which I imagine would have a lower moisture content than stool, the food is actually stealing moisture from the body on its way out.
