Moistening Dry Food?

This thread almost gave me a headache LOL! Everyone has had good arguments here. What it boils down to is that if a cat consumes 2oz. of water, it does not matter what the moisture was ingested from. I'm still not sure if that was the point of all this. I think Otto may have been trying to say that even if kibble absorbs water it does not make it a better food than say... wet food? Maybe not. I'm not exactly sure at this point :dk:

LDG said:

I believe this was otto's point, back on page 1:

Click to expand...

Sort of.  The statement that it "absorbs moisture all the way through" is inaccurate, because it absorbs a whole lot of moisture early in the digestive tract, but most is regained near the end.  ANY food whatsoever will have moisture added to it in the stomach and small intestine.  Stomach acids and digestive enzymes have to be mixed in or the food won't break down adequately.  This moisture isn't lost, though.  The primary purpose of the large intestine is to reabsorb moisture.  If the moisture weren't reabsorbed, feces would be extremely soupy, like the worst diarrhea imaginable.  So, it really only matters how much moisture leaves the body in the form of feces.   Ideally, the feces should have just enough moisture to pass and the rest should be retained.  

:lol3: You're as anal as I am! otto may not have stated the dynamics of the process correctly, but her point is the same. Without additional water in sufficient quantity, kibble, which is typically 10% moisture, is dehydrating, given that the stool coming out of a cat on a kibble diet is definitely more than 10% moisture.

socksy said:

Sort of.  The statement that it "absorbs moisture all the way through" is inaccurate, because it absorbs a whole lot of moisture early in the digestive tract, but most is regained near the end.  ANY food whatsoever will have moisture added to it in the stomach and small intestine.  Stomach acids and digestive enzymes have to be mixed in or the food won't break down adequately.  This moisture isn't lost, though.  The primary purpose of the large intestine is to reabsorb moisture.  If the moisture weren't reabsorbed, feces would be extremely soupy, like the worst diarrhea imaginable.  So, it really only matters how much moisture leaves the body in the form of feces.   Ideally, the feces should have just enough moisture to pass and the rest should be retained.  

Click to expand...

Wow.. never thought of it that way...

Thanks for that link Finnlacey

I have a hard time "holding those cards" (info)
to pass on in personal discussions

I love Nature's Variety. I feed it to my chihuahuas as well.

I have a question for you all.

Has anyone here ever adopted an older cat (say 8 yrs)
who is super addicted to dry food?
What do you do when they refuse to transition.
to canned food,or raw diet?

I have taken in an older girl I fell in love with, and she refuses all
canned food (from cheap and awful to the top of the line)

I really love her, and I firmly believe she will live longer and be healthier
long term if I could get her to transition to a better diet.
FYI, I DO feed her a good quality dry food (Life's Abundance)
but. I would prefer she ate a wet or RAW food like Nature's Variety.

THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ANY TIPS

DuckDodgers said:

As I said, so I have heard.  As I have also said, I can't seem to find a "poorer quality grain free wet food" that is cheaper than high quality dry. 

Click to expand...

I have not read all of the posts yet, but wanted to mention that there is an inexpensive GF* wet now.  

* They do not advertise it as Grain Free, but I see no grains listed unless there are some grains in "by products."

Grreat Choice Poultry Platter (sold at PetSmart - around 40 cents per 6 oz can - On Sale for 37 cents right now on their website.)

• Ingredients: turkey, poultry by-products, sufficient water for processing, meat by-products, animal liver, fish, salt, guar gum, potassium chloride, vitamin E supplement, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, biotin, folic acid, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper proteinate, manganous sulfate, sodium selenite, potassium iodide, choline chloride, carrageenan and taurine
• Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein (min) 10.0%, Crude Fat (min) 5.0%, Crude Fiber (max) 1.5%, Moisture (max) 78.0%, Ash (max) 3.5%, Taurine (min) 0.05%

Granted, this is not EVO, but decent food at this price. I feed it to my Ferals and they enjoy it, and their coats are thick and soft.

As far as adding warm water to their dry food, I cannot imagine any problem - as long as you only feed a small amount that they will finish within a few minutes. In that case, there is essentially no difference than if they were to eat dry food then drink water immediately afterward.

I do this once per day, and they have had no problem whatsoever.   

SevenWonders said:

I have not read all of the posts yet, but wanted to mention that there is an inexpensive GF* wet now.   :nod:
* They do not advertise it as Grain Free, but I see no grains listed unless there are some grains in "by products."

Grreat Choice Poultry Platter (sold at PetSmart - around 40 cents per 6 oz can - On Sale for 37 cents right now on their website.)

• Ingredients: turkey, poultry by-products, sufficient water for processing, meat by-products, animal liver, fish, salt, guar gum, potassium chloride, vitamin E supplement, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, biotin, folic acid, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper proteinate, manganous sulfate, sodium selenite, potassium iodide, choline chloride, carrageenan and taurine
• Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein (min) 10.0%, Crude Fat (min) 5.0%, Crude Fiber (max) 1.5%, Moisture (max) 78.0%, Ash (max) 3.5%, Taurine (min) 0.05%

Granted, this is not EVO, but decent food at this price. I feed it to my Ferals and they enjoy it, and their coats are thick and soft.

Click to expand...

This is actually really GREAT food. The only problem with this is the salt that I can see....

SevenWonders said:

I have not read all of the posts yet, but wanted to mention that there is an inexpensive GF* wet now.   :nod:
* They do not advertise it as Grain Free, but I see no grains listed unless there are some grains in "by products."

Grreat Choice Poultry Platter (sold at PetSmart - around 40 cents per 6 oz can - On Sale for 37 cents right now on their website.)

• Ingredients: turkey, poultry by-products, sufficient water for processing, meat by-products, animal liver, fish, salt, guar gum, potassium chloride, vitamin E supplement, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, biotin, folic acid, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper proteinate, manganous sulfate, sodium selenite, potassium iodide, choline chloride, carrageenan and taurine
• Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein (min) 10.0%, Crude Fat (min) 5.0%, Crude Fiber (max) 1.5%, Moisture (max) 78.0%, Ash (max) 3.5%, Taurine (min) 0.05%

Granted, this is not EVO, but decent food at this price. I feed it to my Ferals and they enjoy it, and their coats are thick and soft.

As far as adding warm water to their dry food, I cannot imagine any problem - as long as you only feed a small amount that they will finish within a few minutes. In that case, there is essentially no difference than if they were to eat dry food then drink water immediately afterward.
I do this once per day, and they have had no problem whatsoever.    :catguy:

Click to expand...

This is not a bad food by any stretch and about on par with Fancy Feast Classics IMO. It is relatively inexpensive. I actually sold some of this today to a customer that could not afford ANY of the premium wet foods including Nutro Max Cat. She could not afford FF either but could afford the GC. GC is a Petsmart brand I believe. This customer had to be guided through to get the most bang out of her budget and i think i helped her get it. Her cat is getting over a UTI and she's trying to get him off kibble completely. Hope this helps her :nod:

Minka said:

This is actually really GREAT food. The only problem with this is the salt that I can see....

Click to expand...

Why do people think salt is bad? All living creatures NEED salt. As in, will die without it. For a food to be balanced as a daily diet, it must contain proper amounts of salt.

Of course humans have different needs than cats, but there's a very interesting article in Reader's Digest about how new studies are showing how harmful low-salt diets are for humans.

Willowy said:

Why do people think salt is bad? All living creatures NEED salt. As in, will die without it. For a food to be balanced as a daily diet, it must contain proper amounts of salt.

Of course humans have different needs than cats, but there's a very interesting article in Reader's Digest about how new studies are showing how harmful low-salt diets are for humans.

Click to expand...

I think the issue is too much salt.  You're right, living creatures do need salt, which is why cats (who eat other living creatures) get salt in their diet.  The turkeys, fish, and whatever other animals going into that cat food will have salt in their bodies already, so that should be sufficient for the cats.  Added salt will generally put it over what a cat actually needs and can get into harmful territory.  

socksy said:

I think the issue is too much salt.  You're right, living creatures do need salt, which is why cats (who eat other living creatures) get salt in their diet.  The turkeys, fish, and whatever other animals going into that cat food will have salt in their bodies already, so that should be sufficient for the cats.  Added salt will generally put it over what a cat actually needs and can get into harmful territory.  

Click to expand...

Yup. The ideal diet for cats does not include any extra salt. Only what comes from their prey.
:nod:

NutroMike said:

This is not a bad food by any stretch and about on par with Fancy Feast Classics IMO. It is relatively inexpensive. I actually sold some of this today to a customer that could not afford ANY of the premium wet foods including Nutro Max Cat. She could not afford FF either but could afford the GC. GC is a Petsmart brand I believe. This customer had to be guided through to get the most bang out of her budget and i think i helped her get it. Her cat is getting over a UTI and she's trying to get him off kibble completely. Hope this helps her

Click to expand...

Nice job Mike.  

I know it must be a little strange for you to sell another company's product, but you did the right thing,

and IMO you showed her the best food for her budget.

Since the meat in pet food doesn't contain the blood (by-products can include blood but it can't be much or the finished product would be much darker in color), and most of the sodium is in the blood, I doubt there's enough sodium in the food without adding some :dk:. Pretty much all commercial foods have some added sodium (maybe all of them, idk).

Willowy said:

Since the meat in pet food doesn't contain the blood (by-products can include blood but it can't be much or the finished product would be much darker in color), and most of the sodium is in the blood, I doubt there's enough sodium in the food without adding some :dk:. Pretty much all commercial foods have some added sodium (maybe all of them, idk).

Click to expand...

If what you say is true, I wonder why then that salt is picked out as a bad ingredient? (By people like Dr Pierson, the lady from about.com and even aunty crazy, I think)

It's certainly something to pay attention to, because some foods have "excess" sodium to increase thirst.

But sodium in and of itself isn't a "bad" ingredient. Dr. Pierson and almost all ground raw recipes include salt.

Yes, Morton's Lite Salt specifically is added to the chicken thighs recipe but not the rabbit due to the blood coming with the meat.

For the OP, I'm also a student so I can empathize with your situation! My three are on homemade raw and due to watching sales and having a deep freezer it costs me about $0.33/cat/day. Cheaper than cheap grain-free canned and better for them. But as others have mentioned, regular feedings of any kind in a loving home beats the streets any day!

So, I am very curious about this as I have been taking the dry food and putting it in a Rubbermaid container, adding water and placing in the fridge.  After it has completely absorbed the water I use a potato masher and make it a pate' consistency and put it back into the fridge.

I only take out some to feed and place the rest in the fridge.  Now that I have read more on the bacteria stuff it frightens me!  If some can answer great, if not, thanks for taking the time to read

- Do you think I could reduce/eliminate the bacteria/mold count by either baking the kibble prior to adding water or cooking the moistened product and then refrigerating?

There must be a way to make this method safer.

I would also tend to think, if adding water to dry food can increase bacteria/mold then wouldn't the same happen after a cat eats the dry food  and it becomes moist within their stomach/intestines?  Especially after they take a drink of water.

Thanks again!!!

Hi Prez!

I can't answer your questions completely, but I have read a little about this subject and have learned that toxins produced by mold are also a problem when feeding dry food. Heat doesn't destroy toxins, so baking the food won't reduce that particular risk. Below is a link to a reputable site which nicely explains the ins and outs of feline nutrition. (This particular link goes directly to the section about dry food, but there is much more to explore.)

http://catinfo.org/#The_Safety_of_Dry_Food

My cat had problems with his kidneys, due to too much dry food,  all you need to do is make sure he has fresh water, and maybe just give him a little treat on a sunday with some meat, maybe your cats religious?

prez said:

So, I am very curious about this as I have been taking the dry food and putting it in a Rubbermaid container, adding water and placing in the fridge.  After it has completely absorbed the water I use a potato masher and make it a pate' consistency and put it back into the fridge.

I only take out some to feed and place the rest in the fridge.  Now that I have read more on the bacteria stuff it frightens me!  If some can answer great, if not, thanks for taking the time to read

- Do you think I could reduce/eliminate the bacteria/mold count by either baking the kibble prior to adding water or cooking the moistened product and then refrigerating?

There must be a way to make this method safer.

Click to expand...

As Peaches08 said, mold isn't destroyed by the heat, so baking won't help.

To make feeding your cat kibble mixed with water safer, the best thing to do is crush the amount of kibble you want to feed your cat at that meal, add water to it, let the crushed kibble absorb it, and then feed it to your cat. Don't store it. Make each batch fresh. That is probably the best way to minimize the risk of additional growth of bacteria or mold.

prez said:

I would also tend to think, if adding water to dry food can increase bacteria/mold then wouldn't the same happen after a cat eats the dry food  and it becomes moist within their stomach/intestines?  Especially after they take a drink of water.
Thanks again!!!

Click to expand...

The difference is that once in the stomach, the environment is so acidic that will inhibit the growth - and usually destroys the bacteria. The problem is when the bacterial load is so high (as sometimes happens with kibble), or specific molds - like aflatoxin.