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why did my vet give my cat orbax for URI?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 

4 days ago my cat Jazmine has a bad case of URI and they gave me orbax for it but orbax is a skin antibiotic not respiratory meds why did he give me it instead of amoxiclav?I think Jazmine needs Amoxiclav and now Thumper Marty her brother are acting sick too

 

i'm going to go to my previous vet and get amoxiclav from them i dont want to but i'm going to they don't know Jazmine Marty and Thumper but they know my last name so i'm going to ask my friend to take them in and do it for me under different names for the cats reason why different names because they know there names but don't know what they look like

post #2 of 15
Orbax is used to treat bacterial infections in cats. Read this link.


http://www.vetinfo.com/orbax-for-cats.html
post #3 of 15

IMO, you're quite properly questioning about this use of Orbax.

 

Yes, Orbax could be used for a URI.....BUT, it's licensed ONLY for specific infections: skin infections.

 

So, really, your Vet is the person to question on this.

 

Now, if you're wondering why he might have chosen that drug...that is to say it's conjecture you're looking for, that's a different story.

 

The appeal with Orbax is convenience - once a day dosing of a not unpleasant tasting drug - what could be easier?

 

THE PROBLEM with using off-label antibiotics like this is the issue of antibiotic resistance....but, many Vets take a what-the-hell attitude and prescribe the drugs of convenience for the ease of it all. Convenia (a single one-time injection antibiotic), licensed similarly for specific skin infections, is another over/improperly off-label prescribed one. Dr. Lisa Pierson has some strong opinion about all this here http://catinfo.org/?link=convenia

 

So, really, unless your Vet did a culture and ascertained that Orbax was the drug of choice.....perhaps consider a competent feline-only Vet.

post #4 of 15
Thread Starter 

Psst all my vet did was looked at her and said Orbax I think he likes orbax more because it cost more then the other Antibiotics and I don't care if I have to give Jazmine medicen twice a day to make her better in my opinion Orbax don't work on my cats Amoxiclav works better on my pets from experience,And I tried talking to him he try's to avoid the question.

post #5 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Shadow View Post

THE PROBLEM with using off-label antibiotics like this is the issue of antibiotic resistance....

 

And one of THE CAUSES of resistance is failure to complete the course, hence the popularity of injected long-lasting antibiotics - there's no way the course cannot get finished.  What we need are a bigger range of injectible long-lasting antibiotics so there are ones appropriate for a variety of types of infection.

post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrientalSlave View Post

 

And one of THE CAUSES of resistance is failure to complete the course, hence the popularity of injected long-lasting antibiotics - there's no way the course cannot get finished.  What we need are a bigger range of injectible long-lasting antibiotics so there are ones appropriate for a variety of types of infection.

true every time I get antibiotics for my pets or me I finish them off sometimes it don't work and my vet gave me orbax

post #7 of 15

My doctor prescribed the same.

 

I do preventitive urine screens for ph and crystals.

 

This doctors opinion was my cats bladder was very toxic.

 

I never had her retested.

 

Anyways, I wouldnt say the med is that easy to give.

I remember the retail Orbax having an oatmeal type consistency.

It was so bad, I had the pills prescribed, and had them compounded into a better liquid at a pharmacy.

(recommend this method for long term drugs, you can save money, and they might be easier to give)

post #8 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrientalSlave View Post

 

.....What we need are a bigger range of injectible long-lasting antibiotics....

 

Cannot agree with you there, OrientalSlave.....

 

Quote:

-

Cats are unique in their high susceptibility to tumors at vaccine injection sites. However, we have noticed that some cats develop inflammations identical to those that precede tumors when antibiotics or even sterile water are injected under their skin. One theory about cat fibrosarcomas is that hair is carried in with the injection causing an inflammation that can lead to tumors. Another is that cats that develop sarcoma tumors have a gene that makes them more susceptible to this form of cancer. As the theory goes, this gene remains “off” through most of the cat’s life and usually causes no problems. However, the gene can be turned “on” by inflammation or infections under the skin. So anything that causes an inflammation, could turn on that gene causing a sarcoma to form. http://www.2ndchance.info/fibrosarcoma.htm

 

Quote:
There are scattered anecdotal reports of other long-acting products
like lufenuron, long-acting penicillin, methylprednisolone, or even microchips triggering the
development of similar sarcomas. The credibility of such claims is hard to evaluate because in
none of those reports were the authors able to rule out the possibility of previous vaccination in
that same location. http://histovet.com/PDFs/HIS_PostVaccinal.pdf

 

I personally believe that the fewer injections - of anything - the best for our kitties.

post #9 of 15

Ok first I must appologize for not reading this thread, my cat had orbax for urinary issues.

I hope the doc there didnt mix up URI and UTI.

 

White Shaddow: I dont know if I missed some nuance here, but what is wrong with long lasting injections?

 

Do you know how traumatic it is to administer a cat medicine.

Im not talking pills here, Im talking liquid compounds.

 

Have you ever seen a cat foam at the mouth from meds?

 

Unless you are anti medication, I cant imagine an argument against more humane medication delivery systems.

 

My older cat Korina has congenital heart failure which she can live with.

When she needed her lasix, she would near foaming every time.

 

I long for those future movie style syringes which look like nail guns.

post #10 of 15
Thread Starter 

UPDATE Jazmine is steal sick but is getting better on orbax and 7 more of my cats got sick and got clavomax because it is cheaper just started that today

post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mewlittle View Post

UPDATE Jazmine is steal sick but is getting better on orbax and 7 more of my cats got sick and got clavomax because it is cheaper just started that today

 

Please let me advise and remind anyone who is prescribed meds and wants to save.

 

Drugs like Clavamox and Orbax EASILY compound into liquids (ask vets for local compound pharmacies)

 

They uses a machine that effectively suspends the med, reducing the need to shake and administer quickly.

 

If it is too thick, you can arrange for more dilution.

 

And in many cases, it costs the same or far less than a vet.

 

I had a cat with an abscess from a bite, she was on antibiotics for nearly 2 months (it kept coming back)

post #12 of 15

Orbax is a stronger antibiotic and is relevant to Baytril. I gave it to my sister's cat for awhile because she had a UTI several times and the Clavamox didn't work. Orbax helped at the time but it was the pills, not injection. 

post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by finnlacey View Post

Orbax is a stronger antibiotic and is relevant to Baytril. I gave it to my sister's cat for awhile because she had a UTI several times and the Clavamox didn't work. Orbax helped at the time but it was the pills, not injection. 

 

I will never for the life of me understand vets who give paients pills for cats?

Is it in the hope they will come back and by the liquid forumulation and spend more $$$?

 

Thats the only thing I can figure, as both Clavamox and Orbax are made in liquid by the pharma manufacturers (no special compounding needed).

 

I am sure there is 10 cats in America who will take a pill down, tip of the hat to you all.

 

I did get a few pills down my cats throat (emergency, she had heart failure and didnt want to wait the 3 days to get compound meds), but she was dying (she survived, 3 months later she is eating on her own, and no lasix heart med in 1.4 months)

 

Always ask doctors when its an exotic drug, like Plavix will make the cat foam at the mouth (drool) and throw up.

The cadiologist wouldnt write me a compound script for plavix as it was known to cause foaming,  the pill made her throw up, so I gave those back to my dad.

post #14 of 15
Was the cat diagnosed with an upper respiratory infection or urinary tract infection?
Seems there was some confusion as this thread continued, but I'm assuming since the OP wrote URI, it was the former.
Also, it wasn't mentioned if it was tablets or the liquid suspension that was prescribed.

URIs in cats can be very difficult to diagnose. UTIs are easier to by taking urine samples.

If this was a new vet for your cats, who knows why he/she prescribed what they did. If asking them didn't get you an answer, keep asking, or find another vet. It's been my experience that some vets are not good listeners and like to act superior to their clients. I've not returned to several vets for just this reason, and have complained to one 24 hour emergency practice about the rude behavior of first vet we saw there. That condescending vet assumed I didn't know what I was talking about when I told her what I had witnessed, because, by the time I got my cat into the emergency clinic, the seizure was over. The vet looked her over and then sent me home, saying it was likely just her leg that had fallen asleep (huh, NO!). The next time my cat seized was 10 days later, again late at night. We went back to the emergency clinic and this time I saw the owner vet of that clinic (at twice the cost of my regular vet's exam charge, btw). Again, the seizure was over by the time we got there. Anyway, I told him of the previous experience with the other vet, and he looked dumb founded by her diagnosis. He said it was highly likely that what I had seen both times was a full on epileptic seizure. I thought that this was odd as my cat is 13 years old and I'd never seen her seize before. However, he explained that just because I hadn't seen the seizures doesn't mean she hasn't been having them. Likely, she'd been having what's called petite mal seizures and and now she's having grand mal seizures. Epilepsy can get worse with age and no one really knows what causes it. After doing a lot of research on the subject, I have learned that all my cat's life she was having those petite mal seizures, and I just thought she was a high strung cat. Anyway, the male vet also sent me home after about an hour of checking my cat over and running some test, but he kept my cat for several hours more, just to observe her. When no more seizures happened, at least in his presence, he called me to come get her and said to try and film her the next time I saw a seizure coming on. He also told me what to look for in the aura stage, the pre-seizure behavior. Well, the next time I saw her have one was 2 weeks later, during a week day, luckily. I did notice the aura stage coming on, but by the time I found my camera, the seizure was over. The next time was about a week later, but I couldn't get the stupid camera to go into movie mode. So, I called my regular vet to tell them what was happening and how I'd been to the emergency clinic twice. Funny thing was, the emergency clinic never faxed over any record of my visits there to my regular vets' offices, despite them saying they would do so the following mornings. Anyway, luckily for me and my cat, the vet I spoke to happened to also be an epileptic man and I finally got her on some medication. Since then, no more seizures, and my cat is way more normal now than at any time in her previous 13 years of life. She's calmer, sweeter, and not a freaky girl anymore.

My point is, there is no reason why any vet shouldn't tell you why he/she prescribed one thing over another. As for taking your cats to another vet for a 2nd or 3rd opinion, that's always your right to do so. agree.gif

So, assuming it was a URI, the reason for the Orbax Rx may be because it has been shown to be very effective for a number of bacterial infections, not just skin infections. It's very easy to administer in the oral suspension as it's tastier to cats than Clavamox, doesn't need to be refrigerated like Clavamox suspension, and doesn't go bad as quickly. However, if giving any tablets or liquid hasn't been a problem for you or your cats in the past, then bring that up with the vet, and also let them know that cost is a factor too.

Generally, tablets are cheaper than liquid suspensions, but many owners find it difficult to pill their cats; so having liquid options are great. Also, some meds in tablets are too difficult to split into the dosage needed for smaller animals. So, it's great when they come in liquid forms to begin with. Yes, you can get the pills compounded into a liquid by a compounding pharmacy too, but that will add cost, though it might be cheaper than the original liquid form from the vet's office. I've had some issues with both my cats being allergic to some meds after they've been compounded, where as in tablet form, they were fine.

Also, if your cat can wait a day or so before going a medication, price it online. They are always cheaper than what my local vets charge.

Why the vet you saw prescribed Orbax over Clavamox could be for a variety of reasons. Resistance to antibiotics is one reason. Another could be cost, because yes, vets upcharge for all medications, sometimes by 2 or 3 times the price I find it online. Orbax is a newer medication and therefore pricer anyway.

Do your cats have any underlying long-term disease, such as FHV (feline herpes virus), or anything else?
Reason I ask is FHV is very, very common these days, and secondary bacterial infections are common to cats with FHV, and hard to get rid of because the virus eats away at the mucosa membranes, as can bacteria. Also, some strains of bacteria have become drug resistant, so they are more difficult to treat. Also, there is still no cure for feline herpes, or any herpes to my knowledge.

If all your cats were getting sick at the same time, then if one cat has FHV, it may have passed it to the other cats. However, there are other viral and bacteria infections that can easily pass from feline to feline too.

Often, if an infection doesn't resolve with one course of meds, there are 4 things that can be done:
1. Stay on the same medication for longer;
2. Up the dosage frequency;
3. Up the dosage strength;
4. Change medications.

Both my cats have FHV, and as such, tend to to have some FHV symptoms at times - stuffy noses, sneezing, weepy eyes, wheezing, and coughing. My cats are currently on Orbax for two reasons. Angie, nicknamed Sneezy-Wheezers (due to the FHV) has a UTI that didn't resolve after 10 days on the Orbax; so I'm doing another round of it for her. She did initially improve, but it came back a 2 weeks later, probably because she wasn't on the medication long enough. Her FHV induced wheezing has concurrently subsided too, as an added bonus.

The other cat, Tibby, is battling a secondary bacterial infection in her sinuses, which she often has, also due to the FHV clogging up her sinuses. Tibby is also the epileptic cat. Her nickname is just Sneezy, but she also has the weepy eyes almost all the time. Tibby is prone to the sinus issues and only doing long term antibacterial therapy (a month at least) will resolve her problem, at least for a few months anyway. I've dealt with this for many, many years, so I'm well versed on the subject. Orbax works for Tibby's sinus problems better than any other medications we tried and it's very easy to give in the oral suspension.

And just so all you readers know, my cats are not on any dry kibble. I only feed them very high quality, human grade, wet cat foods.
post #15 of 15

Foaming from medication: depends on the antibiotic.  Flagyl tends to do that in pill form. 
I really love the trandsdermal prep of medications for intractable cats.  We are lucky here to have two special pharmacies that preps for both human and animal specially flavored oral meds and transdermal usually in 24 hours or less.  There are ones that prep mail order, and ship FedEx very fast too.  Gives other options for you to choose.

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