Must kittens have their vaccination before moving to a new home ??

I am picking up the kittens on 21st December, at which date they will be 2 months and 3 weeks old. I have booked their first vet appointment on 28th December, where they will be checked, have their first vaccination and be micro chipped.

Now a pedigree cat breeder I know tells me that kittens must be vaccinated 2 weeks before they move to a new home ????  She says that their immune defense system will be affected by the vaccinations, and the stress of moving from their old home will make them more vulnerable to catching virusses etc.

HELP !!!! 

When they arrive here, they will not be let outdoor. I will have my house well heated, will give them the best food and soft kittybeds. Also I don't have small children in the house, dogs or any other "stressors".  Our neighbour's cat Futte will not be allowed to come in and visit for at leat the first week or so. And if he insists we will be watching carefully that he behaves himself towards the little ones.

We will give the kittens plenty of calm, keep them in a confined area for the first days, then gradually open up the house, so that they feel secure about exploring.

I mean......... is the vaccination issue really that critical ????  The kittymom I am buying them from will think I am nuts, if I start arguing that she must take them to the vet to have them vaccinated.  I don't really want to do that.

Pariscat said:

Now a pedigree cat breeder I know tells me that kittens must be vaccinated 2 weeks before they move to a new home ????  She says that their immune defense system will be affected by the vaccinations, and the stress of moving from their old home will make them more vulnerable to catching virusses etc.

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Breeders operate at a higher standard, while shelters like to move cats along to make room. 

If you've got no other cats it won't matter so much, otherwise just keep them quarantined to begin with as many shelter cats do have slight URI's.

My cats are not shelter cats, they are from a nice lady who breeds kittens as a hobby.  She has raised 239 kittens until now - she keeps a record of when they were born and where they went to live.

Pariscat said:

My cats are not shelter cats, they are from a nice lady who breeds kittens as a hobby.  She has raised 239 kittens until now - she keeps a record of when they were born and where they went to live.

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All breeders do it as a hobby. Is she registered or breeding moggies? Please don't support a BYB if they're moggies, go to a shelter instead. 

What is a moggy ?????    Lena owns a very nice female cat, Sofie-Yvonne, who is allowed to have kittens, as Nature decides it. 

My kittens are the orange ones.  Of course the 239 kittens are not from the same mother !!!! Goodness, if that were the case !!

I have visited them twice. It's a nice, clean home in the countryside  (lot cleaner and nicer than my own.......

Moggie is an affectionate term for a non-pedigree cat, and this woman sounds like a BYB breeder as she is letting moggies breed randomly.  Keeping the kittens to 10 weeks does put her at the better end, but she is still a BYB. 

And unfortunately that's 239 kittens she has let be born that have taken a home that could have gone to a shelter cat or kitten. 

Out of curiosity, does she charge?

What is a BYB ?? Sorry for not knowing the lingo. I would not want an abandoned shelter cat, sorry to sound harsh. Cats that get handed in to shelters have more often than not been neglected, maltreated or have been in accidents.

My kittymom does not " run" a cattery. Yes I have paid 500 DKK for the pair of them, which was actually the reason for choosing her. Charging money for kittens keep away those buyers who are not seriously ready to accept the expenses that go with owning a pet. Also to me charging money means that it is not just a question of "getting rid of" the kittens.

Pariscat said:

 I would not want an abandoned shelter cat, sorry to sound harsh. Cats that get handed in to shelters have more often than not been neglected, maltreated or have been in accidents.
My kittymom does not " run" a cattery. Yes I have paid 500 DKK for the pair of them, which was actually the reason for choosing her. Charging money for kittens keep away those buyers who are not seriously ready to accept the expenses that go with owning a pet. .

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Although I agree with Oriental about not supporting Back Yard Breeders, your answer is a beautiful illustration  some private litters are OK, and even desirable.

You probably dont want to pay 5000 DKK (danish crowns) apiece for a purebred,

and you dont want to have cat from shelter or adopted homeless.

And I understand it. Although adopting homeless cats is usually VERY rewarding, it is perhaps not to recommend for the first cat.

But perhaps your next cat, you will want to do a good deed - etc...

For you, a shelter cat is no alternative as now.  But perhaps in a couple of years.

So, some of private litters, and even decent BYB like here, dont take away places from the cats in need, but quite opposite - do builds up more places, in the years to come.

The appetite comes when you get the taste of good food, no??  

500 danish crowns, is about 80 dollars, for two cats, 10 weeks.  Affordable and even low.

A serious breeder would have them vet checked, vaccined, and perhaps even spayed, before delivery., but would also charge 5000 apiece...

Dont forget, your next cat from a shelter or adopt a homeless...  OR buy a purebred...  If you dont afford, you can buy a adult who seeks new home, they are much cheaper.

Welcome to our Forums!

Good luck!

Pariscat said:

What is a BYB ?? Sorry for not knowing the lingo. I would not want an abandoned shelter cat, sorry to sound harsh. Cats that get handed in to shelters have more often than not been neglected, maltreated or have been in accidents.<snip>

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You are being very unfair to rescue cats.  Most of them are healthy and have not been neglected etc. - at least that's the case in the UK.

There are also a lot of beautiful kittens in late spring and the summer.  I know - I have fostered several litters for various rescues, and especially the last lot were beautiful healthy kittens.  Their photos are on my website (Jasmine was the name the rescue had given the mother):

http://shunracats.wordpress.com/jasmine/

The price is also going to mean that the kitten ends up costing you more than a rescue kitten would in the UK...  The kittens I fostered had been vet checked, wormed, microchipped, had their first vaccination and had vouchers for the 2nd and neutering when they went to their new homes.  If I add up just the cost of basic vaccinations, neutering and a chip it's going to be more than they asked for their adoption fee.  You still have all those costs to bear.

I don't know what the shelter situation is in Denmark. Perhaps there really isn't any overpopulation and only troubled cats are in shelters there (certainly not the case in the U.S.! Around here most cats in shelters/rescue are quite innocent). In which case I wouldn't be against responsible people breeding moggies. But if she's deliberately allowing moggies to breed, she should be giving them at least one vaccine and providing other appropriate health care before rehoming the kittens. What are you paying for if not vet care? It's very irresponsible of her if she doesn't provide proper health care.

That's not how is works, Willowy. Kittens are not such a big fuss here. I would never expect to have them delivered with vaccination and microchips etc. without paying for those expenses.

I did ask her about the worm treatment, but she claims that worm treatments should only be given after having their poo-poo analysed (?) - but I rather suspect this is a misunderstanding, coming from the fact that Lena also has a horse and with horses you have to have their droppings analysed, before you treat them for worms.

However, I didn't want to raise an argument over something not that critical. The veterinarian at the clinic I am going to use, says that the worm-thingy gets transferred with the breastmilk from the mom-cat, so he always recommends a worm treatment of kittens as a routine measure.  So I am getting the pills to give them, once they have properly recovered from their vaccination. 

The 90 USD I paid is not for a concrete delivery, I don't see it that way. They are more like a token of me being a serious kitten buyer and her being a responsible kitten caretaker. I paid the money gladly, although there were LOTS of kittens to be had for 10 USD each on the internet - and even more for free (on the site that is our equivalent of your "Craig's List").

Lena only has one female cat, so it's really not how you perhaps imagine. She and her husband are totally respectable citizens, there is nothing seedy about it at all  !!! (well, he has to respectable - since he's a police officer...)    Personally I would at some point have a female cat spayed after a number of litters, to give the cat a rest from the strain of pregnancy and births, but then again there is nothing "unnatural" about cats being into heat regularly and becoming pregnant.

I may be prejudiced against animals in shelters, but there are many troubled, formerly maltreated, lost and unwanted animals there. Of course you can get good, healthy cats there as well, but I wouldn't want to risk it.

Pariscat said:

Lena only has one female cat, so it's really not how you perhaps imagine. She and her husband are totally respectable citizens, there is nothing seedy about it at all  !!! (well, he has to respectable - since he's a police officer...)    Personally I would at some point have a female cat spayed after a number of litters, to give the cat a rest from the strain of pregnancy and births, but then again there is nothing "unnatural" about cats being into heat regularly and becoming pregnant.

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So they're genetically tested then? To ensure healthy kittens? Who is the cat mated to, is he tested also? Or do you just open the door and let her go to whomever gets her first?

And there is no reason for a domestic to have kittens at all, there are great health risks with cycling in and out of heat including Pyo which is deadly if not caught in time, and closed Pyo being more toxic than open. 

Genetically tested ?????    Hardly !!!  (can't help laughing, sorry........)   I don't even think we do genetic tests on human babies !!! 

As I said, kittens are not such a big fuss here, as they appear to be at your place.  

OK, perhaps we should consider this debate as satisfactorily rounded off. I do not want to cause offense with any of you good kittymoms  - and I am truly sorry if I did.

Pariscat said:

Genetically tested ?????

   Hardly !!!  (can't help laughing, sorry........)   I don't even think we do genetic tests on human babies !!! 



As I said, kittens are not such a big fuss here, as they appear to be at your place.  



OK, perhaps we should consider this debate as satisfactorily rounded off. I do not want to cause offense with any of you good kittymoms  - and I am truly sorry if I did.

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Breeding, done responsibly even with domestics means health testing to ensure you're not passing on genetic disease or illness

At a minimum, fiv and felv. And since you don't know the genes involved PKD, PRA, PK-Def, HCM & HK to begin with

missymotus said:

Breeding, done responsibly even with domestics means health testing to ensure you're not passing on genetic disease or illness
At a minimum, fiv and felv. And since you don't know the genes involved PKD, PRA, PK-Def, HCM & HK to begin with

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True, but here IS a "budgetversion" of a BYB.  As she is apparently no real breeder.

Taking 45 dollars apiece for more or less healhy, homeraised kittens, 10 weeks, clean home...  Is very OK from a small BYB.

It were differently if  she said this is some sort of breed mix and demanded  say, 150 dollars apiece (its cheaper than a purebred).

Which the most typical BYBs do...

Like ParisCat says, lets end this part of discussion here.   

Pariscat said:

 The veterinarian at the clinic I am going to use, says that the worm-thingy gets transferred with the breastmilk from the mom-cat, so he always recommends a worm treatment of kittens as a routine measure.  So I am getting the pills to give them, once they have properly recovered from their vaccination. 

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Yes, round worms do go from mom to the kittens. So the deworming of round worms is usually a must.

Tape worms they get from prey (mices, rats) or fleas.  So if the mom nor kitten doesnt has fleas, deworming for tapeworms is usually not necessary.

You can discuss, if a pure indoors mom and her kittens must be dewormed for round worms. I have seen heat debates about this.

But if the mom does go out, you must count she has round worms, and thus, both she and kittens should be dewormed.

If unsure - do deworm the kittens.  Precisely like your vet recommends.  

Later on, if your cats are pure indoors, and healthy,  deworm them  only if needy. It means, in many cases they never needs to be dewormed again.

StefanZ said:

Taking 45 dollars apiece for more or less healhy, homeraised kittens, 10 weeks, clean home... 

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Maybe it's different where you live and where the OP lives, but here in the UK you can get equally happy healthy kittens from the rescues.  Mostly mothers with kittens are fostered out so they are home rasied, and they have also been vet checked etc. and in the end cost less than $45 to a BYB for a kitten that hasn't been wormed, chipped, vaccinated, got a neutering voucher...

I'm sorry, I can't imagine it being responsible anywhere for anybody to allow their cat to breed and then not provide proper medical care (at minimum, first shots and de-worming), and then, after not spending anything to care for the kittens, to have the nerve to charge money for them! When I raise orphan kittens I always do regular de-worming and first shots, maybe second if they're with me long enough, and FeLV/FIV testing. Kittens are certainly "no big fuss" here either (people kill them regularly), but it's the responsible thing to do, and people who get my kittens know they're healthy.

Sorry to say that I don't think your chances of getting healthy kittens from this litter are any higher than your chances of getting healthy kittens from a shelter or the "free kitten" ads. If kittens are "no big fuss" there, then it's likely they are overpopulated and this lady is simply adding to the misery. I wouldn't pay her money to do so, and certainly not to sell unvetted kittens for a profit..

Welcome to our forums ParisCat. 

StefanZ said:

Like ParisCat says, lets end this part of discussion here.   

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Yes; let us close the discussion here as the OP has suggested. 

Willowy said:

I'm sorry, I can't imagine it being responsible anywhere for anybody to allow their cat to breed and then not provide proper medical care (at minimum, first shots and de-worming), and then, after not spending anything to care for the kittens, to have the nerve to charge money for them! When I raise orphan kittens I always do regular de-worming and first shots, maybe second if they're with me long enough, and FeLV/FIV testing. Kittens are certainly "no big fuss" here either (people kill them regularly), but it's the responsible thing to do, and people who get my kittens know they're healthy.
Sorry to say that I don't think your chances of getting healthy kittens from this litter are any higher than your chances of getting healthy kittens from a shelter or the "free kitten" ads. If kittens are "no big fuss" there, then it's likely they are overpopulated and this lady is simply adding to the misery. I wouldn't pay her money to do so, and certainly not to sell unvetted kittens for a profit..

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I personally believe that shots, in the very least should be the responsibility of the new owners, after all that is part of owning a pet, most of the time when a so called BYB asks for a re-homing fee for kittens, they aren't making a "profit" that money to insure those kittens go to good homes often goes right back into the food those kittens have eaten in the weeks that the person has cared for them. worming and de-flea are easy things to do, and can be done at home, but taking an entire litter of kittens in for shots can be rather costly depending on where you live, because most vets do NOT give discounts for that sort of thing.

when it comes time to re-home my cats kittens, I will ask for a re-homing fee, because I believe people who are willing to pay money for an animal are serious about taking care of it. guess where that money will go? straight back into feeding my other cats, so I will not be making a "profit" nor was that ever my intention. I will not, however be getting them vaccinated most likely, because I simply cannot afford what most of the vet clinics around here are asking for 6 kittens.  IF I can manage to, by some fate of hand come up with *atleast* 400$ in the next month/ month and a half I will have them vaccinated, otherwise they've already been to the vet for check ups, and while they were too young for shots at 6 weeks, they all checked out healthy.

point is, not all BYB can be grouped together, there are some who are well meaning and who truely love the cats they raise (like myself) and there are those who do it just because.

to the OP the kittens you are getting are very cute, I love ginger kitties