Flea Prevention

What's the best flea prevention out there? I always used Advantage (the stuff you put on the back of their necks every month), but it's just ... expensive. And I've heard that it has a lot of nasty chemicals that you really wouldn't want to put into your body (meaning I wouldn't want to put it into my cat's body). I just get the feeling that there's a better method.

I never had a flea problem because my cats were always indoor cats. The only time I had a really bad flea problem ever was when we took in a cat and he had a VERY VERY VERY bad case of fleas and worms, which then quickly spread to my current cat.

Considering that, I don't really feel the need to worry. However, if I can, I want to walk my cat. And if I can, I want to be able to do it often enough that he would be going out at least twice a week. That said, I'm concerned about fleas.

Would bathing him after a walk be enough? Also vacuuming and grooming. I once was told by a vet that most flea shampoos are dangerous (???) but my dad manages a company that makes super natural pet products that I always used on my dog and I loved them. The shampoo and conditioner made his coat softer and silkier than my own hair (and I have naturally SOFT hair). And it smells great and is made from all natural ingredients. Same with the flea and tick shampoo that we have.

I can provide the ingredients later.

So if I could get some ideas or tips about this, that would be great. I really want to avoid any flea problems if possible, but don't want to dish out a ton for prevention. I mean Advantage is only 50$ but that's every month. And I'm still concerned about dangerous chemicals.

Thanks!

Are there fleas in your outdoor area? If not you don't really have to use flea treatments. My cats go out at least once a week on their harnesses, only on my property where there are no fleas and have never been flea treated or had fleas. I'm not a fan of using chemicals anywhere it isn't necessary. 

Be very, very careful with 'natural' products and shampoos.  Some that are harmless or good for us (tea tree oil for example) are dangerous to cats.

I'm not entirely sure but do you have a cat you take for walks outside?  If so the spot-ons from the vet are the thing to use.  The chemicals in Advantage and so on work by interfering with the metabolic pathways in fleas, which are very different to the ones in mammels which means these are relatively safe products. 

You only have to bring back one flea to get the start of an infestation.  The flea lays lots of eggs, they drop into your house and off you go...

My own cats never get treated as they only go out in my garden and don't meet other cats, but my friend who runs a cattery has had plenty of experience of 'cats without fleas' coming in and leaving flea dirt all over the place.

I just treated my cats (totally ondoor, not once have they ever been out) 2 weeks ago with Comfortis that I got from the vet (not sold in stores). It is a pill thats can be chewed (beef flavor). I crushed each of their pills up and mixed it in a little bit of wet food and they ate it right up. You have to give it with something to eat though for it to work best because of the way the body metabolizes it. The fleas started dieing off them in just a few hours.

I tried Frontline Plus first because that was what worked in the past but it failed. My vet sales Advantage 11 but he said it doesnt work as well as comfortis and comfortis cost less too ($10 a month per cat, it comes out the same wether you by monthly or a 6 month supply at my vet).

You need to make sure at the same time you claen thourohly the enviroment too.

missymotus said:

Are there fleas in your outdoor area? If not you don't really have to use flea treatments. My cats go out at least once a week on their harnesses, only on my property where there are no fleas and have never been flea treated or had fleas. I'm not a fan of using chemicals anywhere it isn't necessary. 

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How would you know if there are fleas or not ..? Seems like something that would be generally tough to keep track of. I wanted to walk him more than just outside of my apartment, but even around the black or something. So how would I know?

I'm not a fan of chemicals either, believe me. I like to reduce the amount of stuff we use to protect ourselves, especially chemicals or any pesticide type solutions.

OrientalSlave said:

Be very, very careful with 'natural' products and shampoos.  Some that are harmless or good for us (tea tree oil for example) are dangerous to cats.

I'm not entirely sure but do you have a cat you take for walks outside?  If so the spot-ons from the vet are the thing to use.  The chemicals in Advantage and so on work by interfering with the metabolic pathways in fleas, which are very different to the ones in mammels which means these are relatively safe products. 

You only have to bring back one flea to get the start of an infestation.  The flea lays lots of eggs, they drop into your house and off you go...

My own cats never get treated as they only go out in my garden and don't meet other cats, but my friend who runs a cattery has had plenty of experience of 'cats without fleas' coming in and leaving flea dirt all over the place.

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Here's the ingredients:

Regular Shampoo:

Purified Deionized Soft Water, Green Tea Extract, Cleavers, Sodium Myreth Sulfate, Garlic, Poke Root, Echinacea, Oatstraw, Wild Indigo, Yellow Dock, Marigold, Comfrey, Avocadamide MEA, Elder Flower, St John's Wort, Witch Hazel, Aloe Vera, Fresh Extract of Orange, Tangerine, and Mango.

Flea & Tick Shampoo:

Collodial Oatmeal at 3.8%, Purified Deionized Soft Water, Green Tea Extract, Sodium Myreth Sulfate, Camphor Crystals, Menthol Crystals, Aloe Vera, American Cranes Bill, Chickweed, Comfrey, Elder Flower Berries, Goldenseal, Horse Tail, Irish Moss, Marigold Flower, Marsh Mallow Root, Slippery Elm, Witch Hazel, Garlic, Woodword, and Thyme.

I know that some plants, oils, etc. can be dangerous to animals when consumed, but isn't it different if they're being exposed to the skin rather than ingested? I might be wrong, of course. All of these products worked well on my dog, and my dad's company also made a natural herbal remedy for epilepsy which completely stopped all seizures in my dog while he was alive. So I do feel confident in these products, but dogs are different from cats and also, what do I know when it comes down to the chemistry of these products and stuff. 

That's why I would like to ask an opinion on them. 

CatTreats said:

How would you know if there are fleas or not ..? Seems like something that would be generally tough to keep track of. I wanted to walk him more than just outside of my apartment, but even around the black or something. So how would I know?

I'm not a fan of chemicals either, believe me. I like to reduce the amount of stuff we use to protect ourselves, especially chemicals or any pesticide type solutions.


Here's the ingredients:

Regular Shampoo:

Purified Deionized Soft Water, Green Tea Extract, Cleavers, Sodium Myreth Sulfate, Garlic, Poke Root, Echinacea, Oatstraw, Wild Indigo, Yellow Dock, Marigold, Comfrey, Avocadamide MEA, Elder Flower, St John's Wort, Witch Hazel, Aloe Vera, Fresh Extract of Orange, Tangerine, and Mango.

Flea & Tick Shampoo:

Collodial Oatmeal at 3.8%, Purified Deionized Soft Water, Green Tea Extract, Sodium Myreth Sulfate, Camphor Crystals, Menthol Crystals, Aloe Vera, American Cranes Bill, Chickweed, Comfrey, Elder Flower Berries, Goldenseal, Horse Tail, Irish Moss, Marigold Flower, Marsh Mallow Root, Slippery Elm, Witch Hazel, Garlic, Woodword, and Thyme.

I know that some plants, oils, etc. can be dangerous to animals when consumed, but isn't it different if they're being exposed to the skin rather than ingested? I might be wrong, of course. All of these products worked well on my dog, and my dad's company also made a natural herbal remedy for epilepsy which completely stopped all seizures in my dog while he was alive. So I do feel confident in these products, but dogs are different from cats and also, what do I know when it comes down to the chemistry of these products and stuff. 

That's why I would like to ask an opinion on them. 

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Actually, I was looking at the wrong one. This is the flea & tick shampoo:

Purified Water, Oil of Citronella, Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate, Aloe Vera Leaf Juice, Eucalyptus Oil, Pelargonium Graveolens Flower Oil, Black Walnut Shell Extract, Myrrh Extract, Chomomilla Recutita Extract, Pennyroyal Oil, Jojoba Seed Oil, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Cocamide DEA, Ammonium Chloride, Lecithin, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitiman A Palmitate, Fragrance, Glycerin, Alcohol, Citric Acid, Biotin (Vitamin B7), Yellow 6 and Yellow 5.

You are worrying about 'chemicals' in known safe flea treatments but you are prepared to bath your cats in all those chemicals?

Modern flea treatments are NOT blanket insecticides.  They are specific to fleas because fleas have specific metabolic pathways which is what they interfer with. 

I completely understand and agree with you now using Hartz and similar which have awful safety records, but Frontline, Advantage, Revolution and so on are effective and safe.

In my view there is no way that bathing a cat after each walk will be adequate flea control, plus I suspect the cat might find it very stressful.

OrientalSlave said:

You are worrying about 'chemicals' in known safe flea treatments but you are prepared to bath your cats in all those chemicals?

Modern flea treatments are NOT blanket insecticides.  They are specific to fleas because fleas have specific metabolic pathways which is what they interfer with. 

I completely understand and agree with you now using Hartz and similar which have awful safety records, but Frontline, Advantage, Revolution and so on are effective and safe.

In my view there is no way that bathing a cat after each walk will be adequate flea control, plus I suspect the cat might find it very stressful.

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Wait ... I never said that I wanted to bathe a cat in chemicals. In that list of ingredients, I believe that those were natural things like extracts, etc. Unless I'm wrong. But I don't really like being accused of something like that. I made this thread to avoid any use of chemicals/pesticides. I don't like the idea of advantage because I've read about tons of chemicals in it. I was looking for a natural way to prevent fleas, so what exactly gave you the idea that I wanted to bathe a cat in chemicals? I posted that list of ingredients for a reason.

Also I never mentioned using Hartz ? I've never even heard of that. I only really specified about Advantage because that's the most recommended by locals vets. Frontline as well, but it's even more expensive. And I mentioned Doc Ackerman's Pet Products because my dad manages it, can get those products for us, and I personally do like the quality. But because I've only used them on dogs, I wanted to get an opinion on the safety for use on a cat.

I know a lot of people that bathe cats, and unless your cat really does have a freak out everytime, I don't really see the problem. I've bathed my cat and she was fine ...

Although the ingredients are 'natural' they contain chemicals - because they are natural ones rather than man-made ones doesn't make them safe and/or effective.  And that was my point - don't think that natural means safe or effective.  Tea tree oil, for example, is a natural product and is toxic to cats:

http://www.messybeast.com/teatree.htm

And from further down:

Essential oils which contain phenols are particularly toxic to cats and cause liver damage. These include Oregano, Thyme, Eucalyptus, Clove, Cinnamon, Bay Leaf, Parsley and Savory

Essential oils which contain ketones cause neurological symptoms. These include: Cedar Leaf*, Sage*, Hyssop*, Cyprus*, Lavender, Eucalyptus, Mint ,Caraway*, Citronella ,Clove*, Ginger*, Chamomile, Thyme and Rosemary (those marked * give particular cause for concern).

Cedar Oil, also marketed as a flea treatment, is also highly toxic to cats. It has been found to be toxic orally, when absorbed through the skin and an irritant if the fumes are inhaled (if the fumes are concentrated enough it may be absorbed through the lining of the lungs in toxic quantities).

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The products from the vet have been tested and found to be safe and effective - in the UK for example Frontline started out as POM - prescription only.  It's now generally available from pharmacies.

The many 'natural' shampoos and so on have not.  There is one obvious ingredient in the list you posted which is known to be harmful to cats - garlic.  I have no idea if the product you want to use contains enough of it to be a problem, but personally I wouldn't risk it with my own cats.

On the subject of bathing cats, you are right, quite a few people do this.  However most cats never *need* bathing unless they get something on their coat that must be removed.  Some longhair cats do need bathing as part of keeping their coat in good condition, and show cats often get bathed before a show.  My own view is to not bath them unless there is a compelling reason.  Repeated frequent bathing in my view could lead to skin & coat problems.

A UK page but it takes you through all the ins & outs of flea control:

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/fleas/info.html

OrientalSlave said:

Although the ingredients are 'natural' they contain chemicals - because they are natural ones rather than man-made ones doesn't make them safe and/or effective.  And that was my point - don't think that natural means safe or effective.  Tea tree oil, for example, is a natural product and is toxic to cats:

http://www.messybeast.com/teatree.htm

And from further down:

The products from the vet have been tested and found to be safe and effective - in the UK for example Frontline started out as POM - prescription only.  It's now generally available from pharmacies.

The many 'natural' shampoos and so on have not.  There is one obvious ingredient in the list you posted which is known to be harmful to cats - garlic.  I have no idea if the product you want to use contains enough of it to be a problem, but personally I wouldn't risk it with my own cats.

On the subject of bathing cats, you are right, quite a few people do this.  However most cats never *need* bathing unless they get something on their coat that must be removed.  Some longhair cats do need bathing as part of keeping their coat in good condition, and show cats often get bathed before a show.  My own view is to not bath them unless there is a compelling reason.  Repeated frequent bathing in my view could lead to skin & coat problems.

A UK page but it takes you through all the ins & outs of flea control:

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/fleas/info.html

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Well that's precisely the reason that I posted this thread in the first place. I'm fully aware of the dangers of tea tree oil (which is not present in this shampoo or I wouldn't have even considered it), and garlic for dogs (didn't know it was as severe in cats). I also know that there's differences in exposure to the skin versus fully ingesting something for it to be dangerous. Again, this is the point of the thread. The mere fact that I am posting about this before just going for it should mean something, rather than attacking me (if you aren't, then just know that it does feel like you are).

I understand that highly popular flea prevention methods like advantage and frontline have been tested and confirmed to be safe, but that is not always convincing for me. They have always done studies on pet foods like Royal Canin and Science Diet and vets will swear that they have the perfect balance of nutrients for your pet, when in fact, taking the time to look into it yourself will prove otherwise. I don't know your position on commercial food versus raw diet, but the raw diet has proven to be a superior way of feeding, but veterinarians will highly discourage you from it. 

Basically what I'm trying to say is that just because a vet tells me that it's the best method, I'm not going to just follow it. I've been given many different tips from vets that I knew were completely wrong. I wanted to post the ingredients of this product, which I've used on my dogs and seen beneficial results, and hoped to get a solid opinion or at least some facts about whether or not it's safe for cats. I know that just because something is great for dogs, it may not be as good, or even can be deadly for cats, which is why I'm taking the time to ask.

I really just want to know - Is this shampoo safe or not. I only plan to wash my cat maybe once a week tops because I want to walk him. Even if he doesn't get dirty, I don't walk in my house with shoes on, and would like to wash my cat so that he's not walking around with dirty paws. That's just my preference, and I don't need to be told if washing a cat is "necessary or not." I'm not being defensive or anything, I just want to keep this thread on the point, which is just about that product. Please.   I do appreciate your concern.

No-one can say if the shampoo is safe without it being tested, and none of us are about to do that.  There might be annectotal evidence that it's safe, but then there is annectotal evidence that Hartz is safe (after all it doesn't damage every cat it's used on) but we know it has killed some cats and kittens.

I suspect the shampoo you want to use also hasn't been tested for effectiveness against fleas so we can't say if it will be effective against them either.

To control them and prevent an infestation in your house it would have to be effective at killing fleas for the whole of the week which I doubt it is - after all the last stage of bathing a cat is washing the shampoo out of it's coat.

You just need to bring in one flea on your cat and she will lay eggs (50 a day) and start an infestation.

Really, truely, I would stick with the known products.

Do I treat my own cats?  No.  They don't go into any areas where other cats or dogs go - they live in my house and in my back garden that they can't get out of.  But when I had free-range cats I used Frontline.  I also used it on the cats & kittens I used to foster - I would take a pump-action with me when I collected them and treat them before coming home with them.

Unfortunately I don't think that just bathing your cat after a walk would be sufficient flea protection. Just one flea hiding in an ear (or somewhere else) is enough to cause an infestation. I have 2 dogs and 2 cats who are treated year round. I like to use Revolution as it provides protection from fleas, tics, earmites and many worms. Yes, it is expensive but worth it in the long run! My cats are indoor only, but my dogs obviously go.outside and I live in a heavily wooded area full.of raccoons, squirrels etc which carry lots of nasties. My pets have had no ill affects of long term use. Good luck!_

Did flea preventatives go up in price? I haven't used it in years because my cat is indoor only and we haven't had any issues but I remember Revolution being around $15/month. Is that really considered expensive? (Sorry if it sounds judgmental in text, I'm honestly just curious)

I know there is a natural flea preventative in Dr. Pitcairn’s Complete Guide To Natural Health For Dogs and Cats but I think it's for long term preventative. You can't just start giving it today and be 100%.

IMO I would rather give a topical treatment once a month rather than use a flea shampoo on a regular basis, natural or not.

I think you're about right. It costs be about $100 tax inxluded for a 6 mnth pkg of Revolution. It varies dependant upon the weight of your cat but not a significant amount. I once had a $140lb lab cross and his Revolution cost much more than my $10lb shih tzu lol. I once purchased a single dose of Revolution for $18. It dors get to be an expensive vet visit when you're treating several pets but sooo worth it in the long run. I'm in Canada so I'm not sure where the OP is located.

Advantage is about 60$ for a months worth, unless I misread. Frontline is even more expensive. When you're pretty tight on money to begin with, that does dent the wallet. Especially if I get two kittens.

My cat(s) would always be indoors unless I do happen to walk him, which would probably be once a week possibly two if I have a lot of days off from work. It's just for the enjoyment, and would probably be around my apartment building property. I'm just concerned about fleas in general because of how bad they are.

I've had purely indoor cats (only sniffed outside from the door, never went out) that never got treated for fleas, and never had them at all. I wouldn't be concerned about fleas at all if I weren't planning to walk them outside once in a while. I'd rather be overly concerned than not worry about it. But spending 60$+ a month for each would be very expensive when they go outdoors 3-5 times a month. So I was just looking for a cheaper method that would still work. On top of that, I still feel iffy over popular products that use any type of chemicals or pesticides. Yes, the shampoo that I listed might have chemicals, but either way, I'd rather have "natural" chemicals over man-made chemicals, as was said above.

That might just be me. I don't really need people attacking me for it. I want the best for my pets and I would surely like to avoid anything harmful like chemicals or processed things, as I do for myself as well.

Please re-check the price of Advantage. Each pkg either contains 4 or 6 doses. Each dose lasts one full month. I understand you just want what's best for your pet sorry if my post was offensive, just wanted to.provide info on what I know works well. Good luck

Alicemama said:

Please re-check the price of Advantage. Each pkg either contains 4 or 6 doses. Each dose lasts one full month.

I understand you just want what's best for your pet sorry if my post was offensive, just wanted to.provide info on what I know works well. Good luck

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You're right, heh. It does contain 4 or 6 doses. Still, I'm concerned about any chemicals used in it, so I wish I could get more advice on the subject.

I didn't outright think you were offensive, I just felt like everyone was upset that I wanted to bathe a cat. Bathing isn't harmful, and I really just wanted to find out if the shampoo is actually dangerous. I still haven't really gotten any definite answers, though. 

Everyone? I said I wouldn't do it. Not sure how that can be taken as an attack or that I was upset.

CatTreats said:

How would you know if there are fleas or not ..? Seems like something that would be generally tough to keep track of. I wanted to walk him more than just outside of my apartment, but even around the black or something. So how would I know?

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I have friends that have fleas in their gardens, they can be seen and jump on humans along with pets. 

If you're going further afield than just your garden, then you'd have to use a monthly treatment I guess. Just weigh up the dangers of your cat suddenly getting spooked, a spooked cat is like trying to hold water. 

I wouldn't use that shampoo, eucalyptus is toxic to cats for one, and like tea tree oil it's not recommended to use even in a shampoo that will be washed off.

Washing the cat isn't really an issue, many don't mind a bath but a flea shampoo would be harsher on the coat and skin that a regular cat shampoo I'd think. 

CatTreats said:

Still, I'm concerned about any chemicals used in it, so I wish I could get more advice on the subject.

...

I really just wanted to find out if the shampoo is actually dangerous. I still haven't really gotten any definite answers, though. 

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There are no definite answers about the shampoo as both it and it's many ingredients won't have been tested either for safety or for effectiveness.  Also with that many ingredients there might be an interfaction between some of them that's dangerous - that makes otherwise safe ingredients dangerous.

With the aid of Google I found (some?) of the ingredients in Advantage.  I don't have any myself so I can't read the packing:

Each vial contains 0.8 ml (80 mg imidacloprid) and 0.1% butylated hydroxytoluene (E321) as a preservative.

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http://www.vetuk.co.uk/advantage-fl...873/advantage-80-large-cats-and-rabbits-p-229

It contains a type of alcohol as well:

http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=2022001

and

http://www.animalmedic.com/msds/7063205M.PDF

(we often use the word 'alcohol' for ethyl alcohol, the type in alcoholic drinks, but there is a whole family of alcohols)

It's also approved for use on pregnant and nursing queens, on rabbits, and on very young kittens:

http://www.bayeranimal.com.au/default.aspx?Page=50&ItemId=39

In the end only you can decide if it's safe enough for your cat.  I would happily use it.