Need advice - meeting of house cat & feral

I have had Minja, my Tortie, about 3 months. On Sept 15th I had the opportunity to adopt a feral Burmese mix? that I could not pass up. The feral now roams her room freely with me in it. She rubs my legs, sleeps beside me when I am on the computer. She interactively plays and eats out of my hand. I just can't touch her. Minja sleeps with me, plays, and is a perfect little lady. When Hershey Rose (my feral) came home, I kept her in the office with me. Minja and she "know" each other through the door (my doors are about 2" from the floor). They met in the hall 2 days ago, HR just looked at her and went back into the office, Minja went back to her bed. Today I put Minja in a carrier (for her protection) and brought her into the office. I set her down beside me. I expected HR to start hissing, but she came out of her cube and started to walk over to Minja to say hi. Minja, my sweet domesticated lady, turned into Ms. Hyde. After an hour and a half of listening to Minja hiss and watching HR waiting for her to stop so she could come over, I let Minja out. Minja just sat by me and hissed and growled at HR. HR looked so sad. She was just wanting to greet Minja so badly, but Minja would not allow it. Finally, I let Minja out of the room. Hershey Rose was perfectly calm the entire time. Minja went right back to normal once out of the room. What did I do wrong?

Just a guess but probably having Minja in the carrier made her feel vulnerable and trapped as HR approached her.  I think usually people do it the opposite way, bring the new cat or kittens in a carrier into the other cat's territory.   I know that wouldn't be very practical with HR!   Do you have the option to get any kind of baby gates you could set up in the doorway so they could see eachother but not hurt eachother?  Or maybe even crack the door open just enough so they can interact but not actually go in or out, and use doorstops to jam the door in position securely.    It was a great  sign that when HR and Minja went in the hallway that things went well though.   There's a book called Cat vs. Cat I've been meaning to read that's supposed to be very good for this kind of thing.

My reaction is, you should let them meet in a neutral place both knew and both felt fairly safe into.

Here, you let resident meet in burmas safe place, where SHE resident felt unsafe...

You yourself tells their first meeting, in the neutral hall, went OK...  Proceed so.

Good luck!

I don't have a gate, but maybe I can find one second hand. The problem is that HR can jump 6' straight up - a gate would be a breeze for her to fly over. I was trying to think of something they could see and smell through that would cover the entire doorway, but I am in and out of this room constantly, so it would have to be something I could easily remove as removing the computer system from this room is not do-able. Using a door stop is a problem as it has to be put under the door from inside the room, trapping me inside, although I may be able to work my hand behnd the door from the hallway.And I agree, Bastfriend, I did not want to put Minja in the carrier, but I was afraid HR would be the agreesive one and wanted to protect her. Maybe I should just leave the door open when I am in here, allowing Minja access, but then it also allows HR to get out, and since she can't be handled yet I may not get her back in. This is a concern because Minja is a food monger and any food put out would create an instant fight. I am safe right now because HR eats in this room, Minja eats in the kitchen. I'm stuck!

 As to known territory, StefanZ, both cats have been in this room. Minja hung out in it before I got HR, but it is the safest room for the feral so it became hers. Minja gets plenty of attention in the other rooms.

I use a plexi-glass and slide it back and forth so I can enter and leave my foster room. The cats from day one can see each other but cannot smell or interact other than visually. I have a thread about it somewhere describing how I set it up but it was from the old platform. I have to load the new pictures! Some people use a screen door as well. Easy to install and take down.

I think the problem was that you brought Minja into HR's territory in a crate. That was the opposite of what should have been done. Crate HR and bring her into Minja's territory. OR let Minja come into HR's room to sniff around first and let HR into the other part of the house to sniff around at the same time. It could potentially take quite some time for Minja to accept HR. Good to know that HR was standing down and not returning hissing. Don't feel bad for HR. Try to see things from her point of view. Minja is most likely going to be top cat and HR seems to be willing to accept that. That is great news. I have also in the past set up a large dog crate in the family room and would take the feral cat from her safe room and put her in the large dog crate for a few hours each night while we watch TV. This way the other cats can inspect and interact with her freely as they wish. Just some options for you to mull over and an article with some possible things to try that you have not already. http://www.thecatsite.com/a/introducing-cats-to-cats

Feralvr said:

I have also in the past set up a large dog crate in the family room and would take the feral cat from her safe room and put her in the large dog crate for a few hours each night while we watch TV.

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Okay how on earth did you manage that???  I ask for myself but maybe it will help HR's Mom too.   I have a seven year indoor feral cat and there has been no putting her anywhere....she's a wily beast.   I feel like I need to take a course somewhere on how to man-handle your feral cat.

HM, just realized you might find the story of Patches helpful.   True I can't manhandle her at all, but her introduction to my other cats worked out very well.   She spent about six weeks living in my bathroom at first and there was a gap under the door.   Through that gap my two regular cats were able to interact with her, sniff, and play with paws.   I just went for it when the time felt right and let her out and it actually went quite well.   There was a little bit of hiss and posture here and there, but she settled in quite quickly.   There was no struggle for dominance because the two fully tame cats felt confident and she was still fearful because of not being socialized and slipped into being a beta cat, under the sofa a lot of the time.

So long story short, even a gap under a door for a month or so may provide enough exchange of scents and interaction for Minja and HR.   Good luck!

Right, I may buy the best was to meet in Burmas safe territory, which also was OK for Resident.

But in such a case, take Burma somewhere for a while, let Resident snuff out the room  and renew the feeling for the room.  One hour perhaps?

AFTER that - let them meet, in the room where both feel safe with now.

So are for example doing stud owners with visiting ladies. Works fine.

Crated, in a room with Burmas smells - not safe = defensive standing.  Even if the crate gives some feeling of security.

Bastfriend said:

Okay how on earth did you manage that???  I ask for myself but maybe it will help HR's Mom too.   I have a seven year indoor feral cat and there has been no putting her anywhere....she's a wily beast.   I feel like I need to take a course somewhere on how to man-handle your feral cat.

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:lol3: Oh when I have a feral cat in my foster room, I feed him only in a large dog crate that I have already set up in that room. Which was his orginal "home" when he was brought into my foster room. I always leave the crate set up with the door propped open when I allow them the next level of socialization. When I want the others to be able to come in for a sniffing around, I feed the feral cat in the crate and he goes in to eat and then I close the door to the dog crate. Easy - the feral is then in a dog crate. That is what I am suggesting for Hershey's Mom. Put HR in a crate with something inside so she can hide if she so decides then let Minja in her room if she will come in. OR carefully slide the crate out into the LR for an hour or two. Works for me anyway!!!

Feralvr said:

Oh when I have a feral cat in my foster room, I feed him only in a large dog crate that I have already set up in that room. Which was his orginal "home" when he was brought into my foster room. I always leave the crate set up with the door propped open when I allow them the next level of socialization. When I want the others to be able to come in for a sniffing around, I feed the feral cat in the crate and he goes in to eat and then I close the door to the dog crate. Easy - the feral is then in a dog crate.

That is what I am suggesting for Hershey's Mom. Put HR in a crate with something inside so she can hide if she so decides then let Minja in her room if she will come in. OR carefully slide the crate out into the LR for an hour or two. Works for me anyway!!!

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Please bear with me....   I can see how this would work one time, but are you saying that your cats will let you trap in them in this same way over and over?   I ask because my Patches is impossibly suspicious.  I need to start a new thread about her sometime!

Feralvr, Hershey Rose is not at the point where she can be handled or crated without drugging her first. Therefore, it was easier for me to crate Minja (for her own protection). I was shocked when HR was not the agressor. Right now I am trying to figure out a way to put latice up (mom had some extra pieces I could borrow temporarity) in the doorway. Since I live in a mobile home, I could only slide a door from the outside of the room, and I am in and out of HRs room constantly. I am going to borrow another piece and tie it together with the one I have so it covers the entire doorway, but I have to figure out how to put it in so I can open it easily from either inside the room or outside. I would love to crate HR and bring her into the living room, but I need my fingers to type! Not to mention I like my arms too. I realize it would probably be best to wait until HR can be handled until I introduce the cats, but I want HR to "see" there is more to the house than just the tiny room she is in. On the other hand, if the opening makes her anxious, it will go away very quickly. I also thought leaving the latice in place just a few hours a day might be better than 24/7. Opinions, anyone?

Hi Bastfriend. Minja has already extended her long legs under the door. They look at each other under the door. I have been chicken to let HR out of the room as she can't be handled or petted and I think it is too soon for her have the freedom of the house. Also, Minja is a food monger, and will inhale her food just to be able to get at HRs, so they would still have to be fed in separate rooms. Minja gulps food, HR is a very slow eater. I can see the fights now..........

As for a large dog crate mentioned, I have a small house, and it could be a problem spacewise. Of course, getting HR into it would be an even bigger problem.......

Latice door is now up. HR is sticking her head (or trying to) out of one of the holes. Minja's reaction to watching me put the door up was to cry for attention, then, when I sat down with her to play 5 minutes later, to use my hand as a chew toy! So HR is getting a glimpse of a bigger world now. When I had half a door, she was anxious. The full door does not seem to bother her. The latice is plastic so neither can get hurt, and the holes are not big enough for them to get through. Now I just have to sit here and see what Minja does - she has walked by once and totally ignored HR and the room, but I don't think that will last long. I think eventually Minja's curiosity will get the better of her. HR is now playing with her toys all over the room, so the door is no longer bothering her. Or maybe she is trying to get Minja to come and see what all the noise is about.

Another reason for the door was that the heater vent in this room does not work well. Colder weather is coming now, and I want HR to have heat. When I am in the room, we have an electric heater (cat safe), but I won't leave it on when I am not here or overnight. With the latice door, when the heat comes on during the night, the hot air from the vent 3' from the door will come into this room, and HR will be nice and warm. Yes, she has a cube and 2 beds, complete with blankets, but getting her to use the blanket is a different story. Blankets are for chewing, not keeping warm. Minja's bed is for ripping apart, not for sleeping, so she sleeps on my bed. Cats! You gotta love 'em.

Hi, hope things are working out for you. With 14 cats I have carried out many introductions with domestic and feral cats. I have found that after they have been home a couple of weeks and everyone smells the same introductions have been pretty easy. There are always some hissy, spitty growly goings on but nothing nasty. Ferals are usually really good when introduced as they usually are born into coloneys so well used to other cats. Anyway I would just let them get on with it and just be in the house with them to make sure the growley hissy spitty thing doesnt get nasty.

Enjoy!

Mandy and gang

Hi Mandy,

Hershey Rose got out yesterday and started to investigate the house. I was in her room and never saw her open the latice door! Next thing I know, Minja is chasing her all over the house, hissing and growling. I came out of the room, managed to step between the two cats, told Minja to go into the living room (she actually listened to me this time!) and then held the latice door wide open and HR ran into her "safe" room.  HR can't be handled yet. She will eat treats out of my hand and I can hand feed her pieces of meat (if I don't feed them fast enough or if she goes to take it and misses I get bit), but cannot touch her. If she gets "stuck" somewhere in the house, I won't be able to get her out and still have fingers. Also, there is the food issue with Minja, who will not let HR eat as Minja is a food monger and will eat both their meals. I suppose I could put her in the bathroom while HR eats, but do you think I should put the kibble away if I leave the house so there will be no food war? Both cats are used to having kibble all day. HR isa  Burmese, and eats a little at a time (either wet or dry food), Minja is a Tortie who eats constantly, thus gets less food as she is already over a pound overweight. Right now HR is in her own room so the food thing is not an issue, but when put together, I don't want HR going hungry because I have to hide the food so Minja does not over eat. Another question I have is the litter box thing. Right now Minja has her own covered litter box (she's had it since I adopted her), and HR is using a temporary open one, the bottom of a storage box actually. I only want one cat box in the house. Will there be a problem with getting Minja to share hers? If you have 14 cats, Bast love you, you must have the patience of a saint, and a ton of knowledge. Hope you don't mind my picking your brain for help.

Blessed be

Lei Ann

With litterboxes the general rule is one per cat plus one which means in your case 3!! Not great I understand but a possible necessary evil whilst we get used to each other!! We only have 9 litterboxes to 14 cats but these are cleaned constantly! Is HR "done" as this hissy spittyness can be a hormonal thing?? I once had a really bad falling out wth my alpha queen and a tom cat and had to resort to cat tactics to sort it, this meant when Chester challenged Weds I would "pin" him as a mum would do with a kitten (just holding him gently and stopping him chasing her saying "no"). I don't know if this helped or if Weds secretly kicked the crap out of him while we were at work but no blood was spilt

Feedin in seperate rooms is a good idea, while our lot are given dry add lib, breakfast and supper are fed in lots of different locations in the house!!

Good luck and stick with it!!

Mandy (and the furry ones)

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Bastfriend said:

Please bear with me....   I can see how this would work one time, but are you saying that your cats will let you trap in them in this same way over and over?   I ask because my Patches is impossibly suspicious.  I need to start a new thread about her sometime!

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No, not all of them for sure. Only IF they are to the point of feeling secure in the environment and trusting completely of me do I begin this next step. There are so many options to start intros with feral cats to resident cats. What works for some feral cats will not work for others. It is trial and error on my part too. :lol3:

You would know better about your sweet HR as to whether the crate intro would work or not. It won't work for every feral cat for sure. The lattice door was a great idea! I guess you have to find a way to "HR proof" it so she can't open the door. I honestly would keep them separate right now since Minja just recently chased her all over the place. I don't think I would leave them alone together while you are gone. Minja could really torment HR and that would really set back any hope for a good, solid friendship. The slower the better, IMO. What I have done also is when a feral cat is completely trusting of me and I am already allowed to pet them, I will allow them some time out of their room if they so wish. Most feral cats will only venture out a foot or so and then run back to their rooms. And some won't even come out! :lol3: It is just a good way to start. The problem though is Minja. She is just not ready to have HR loose, so it sounds. Good luck!!!! I think you are doing great and little by little things will improve.

Thanks Feralvr. The latice door was tied to the hinges of the existing door, then I made a "hook" to tie the top of the other side, and place a 20 lb. cauldron a friend gave me at the bottom. When I am in the room, I leave the door ajar. Minja has come into the room about a foot, turned and walked out. Hershey Rose has stuck her head out, but that is about it. When I leave the room, even for a minute, I secure it behind me. HR is now feeling perfectly safe in this room and walks around freely. Today she was introduced to her permanent potty. I was going to try to eventuall get them to use the same potty, but MadCatLady said they should have their own. When she had to go, she came crying to me (I was, at this point, supposed to read her mind and know what was wrong). It took me about 3 second to realize she didn't recognize the potty, even without the top. Her first one was a large tray, this one is an igloo shape, but so as not to confuse her I left the top off. Still, the other was clear and this one is turquoise. I tapped the potty and called her over, but that didn't work. So I took the scoop and "tossed" the litter (some is new, some is her litter from the old box to keep her scent). That worked. She smelled her scent and hopped in. In a few days I hope to put the lid on (she can toss litter across the room when she digs). The next step will be to slowly inch it across the room to its permanent place (it's a small room). So we have peace in the house, Minja seems content to surrender this room to HR, just peeks in now and then. I think she has come to realize HR is not going away. The thing that surprised me the most was that HR ran from Minja instead of confronting her. Perhaps it was because the house she was fostered in had 2 cats already, and she ignored them. I was very happy to see that there was no actual physical confrontation. So for now, until HR can be petted and stops biting without provocation, she will stay in this room. Not sure if I mentioned it in a prior post, but the latice also allows the heat to come into her room as the heater vent in here does not have good air flow, and the temperature is starting to dip at night so I am leaving the heat set to 67 overnight. She loves her window seat (she is sleeping on it now), and has now made her "cube" on the cat tree her second home. I think she is slowly adapting to being inside, and is finally realizing I am not the mean human she thought I was. I am now the provider of a clean litter box, food, water, toys and a playmate. She has a toy that hangs from a rod, like a fishing pole that we play with. When we do, I gently run the stick part over her back and top of her head. At first she tried to bite it, then she started to accept it, and now is used to it. So when we play with the toy, and she has the toy in her mouth, while she is still standing, I run my hand over her back. So far I have been able to "pet" her three times before she realizes it is not the stick and gives me the "you're about to get bit" look. But it's a start. Any suggestions you can give me as to how you were able to get your babies to let you pet them?

Bastfriend said:

Please bear with me....   I can see how this would work one time, but are you saying that your cats will let you trap in them in this same way over and over?   I ask because my Patches is impossibly suspicious.  I need to start a new thread about her sometime!

Click to expand...

When we are trapping colony cats to have them neutered we have to toss cats out of traps all of the time. The ones that had been in traps already know a couple of things. First, there is something good to eat inside them. Second, nothing bad happens while you are in it. Third, they are going to be turned loose soon. They keep going in them My husband has to rig the traps where he controls when they shut. That way he can wait for the cats that we want to trap.

This may not hold true for all colony cats. Most of ours are so soialized that I have actually been able to just pick up the cat that needs to go and drop him in the trap. Wish it was that easy with all of them!