Advice for a friend of mine on a cat with kittens, and a protective tomcat

I wasn't going to ask this here, but *shrugs*

a friend of mine called me last night (I had actually forgotten her cat had kittens about  2 week before Emry did) and yes, they were actually gearing up to have her spayed (she's about a 1 1/2) and she slipped out the door, was gone for 3 days, 6 weeks later started showing pregnant)

anyways, so her cats kittens are around 6 weeks old, and recently, for almost the last week , the mother cat has started acting aggressively towards them, particularly around the food, now as they are starting to wean, but if the kittens are just playing, the mother will smack and hiss at them, not just once, but enough to make them cry, one kitten even ended up with a scratch above his eye because of it, the kittens are acting terrified of their mother at this point, BUT she still wants them to nurse. if my friend is around while the mother is acting aggressive she does repremand her by shooing her away.

now here's the other part of the story, they have a tomcat, who is 4 years old, and is nuetered, he has pretty much stolen the kittens, they follow him around, he grooms and plays gently with them, and if they see their mother while they are around him, the kittens will puff up and hiss, to which the tomcat attacks the mother and drives her away. He only started doing this AFTER the mother started acting aggressively.

they wanted to let the kittens stay until atleast 10 weeks (even though i suggested 3 months), but they don;t want the kittens own mother to harm them, nor do they want Maggie or Guss to kill each other, I guess they got into a horrific fight over the kittens last night as well, a screeching, rolling fight that Guss started when Maggie swatted a kitten and made it cry.

any ideas as to what they can do? should they seperate the kittens from their mother early, and leave them with Guss? or do you think Guss is somehow the cause all of a sudden?

(noted that the kittens ARE still nursing infact that's the only time Maggie seems to tolerate them)


Maggie the momma


the three kittens, all males


and Guss

I have no advice, I'm too inexperienced I'm sorry. Your post makes me wonder though. Is there any possibility that she is pregnant again? I've heard that a pregnant mama might become aggressive with kittens. I've also read that they can get annoyed with kittens if they're going into heat. Just things I have read so I'm not sure. Best of luck to your friend and her cats.

I thought of that too, but they said she's had no interest in going outside, nor has she been in heat since the kittens were born.

I wondered if Guss might have been the problem, but Guss is a gentle soul, and even when the kittens were smaller would lay outside the room where they were and Maggie never had much of a problem with him being there.

I'm at a loss, I've never had a mother act aggressively towards kittens so small.
 

Aww he sounds like a sweet cat who loves the kittens too. I hope someone can give you some advice

It's fairly common for neutered males to become a surrogate mama to kittens, and also fairly common for mama cats to drive their kittens away at a certain age. . .but not usually so young. Maybe she just isn't cut out for motherhood. Personally, I'd keep the babies together until 10-12 weeks, but let the mama cat have her space, maybe keep her in another room if she's agreeable (possibly let the kittens nurse once or twice a day if she doesn't mind, although they are old enough to wean if necessary), and let the male take over the mothering duties. I can't think it's good for them to be smacked around like that; it could make them fearful of other cats in the future.

Hopefully, my brother will tell you tales about "Mama" Sterling.  Sterling is a surrogate mother to all kittens they foster. He really loves them, but S&S were quite a pawfull to him, I gather.

Willowys solution is probably the best, if it can be done.  The kittens continuing to live with the friendly neutered male as their new ma.

The biological mother for herself.

And if possible, let them nurse  her 1- twice a day if she allows and is happy with it. - If not - proceed and wean them.

The moms love, care and protection they get from Guss is more important for them then the milk..

If somebody believes milk is important, try with goat milk or plain yoghurt.

It could be hormones?  She could be going into heat again.  Common for mothers with kittens starting to wean.  Plus she may not be a good mama.  I had a mama cat, her first litter, she fed to our dogs!  It was horrible!!  She lured them over, knowing the dogs would grab them!  Have mama kitty spayed and just follow Willowy's advice is my best thinking, too.  If Guss wants them, let him have them.  I've known a lot of males to take over with kittens, neutered and intact.  It's strange but contrary to popular belief, males don't always want to harm kittens.  Usually, it's if they're orphaned kittens but still....

I don't have any advice either, as I have no experience w/ this, but agree w/ what the others are saying, for the saftey of the kittens.

Also just wanted to say what a sweet boy Gus is!!

The male needs to not have access to the mother if he's attacking her, even if the kittens like to play with him. Glad that he's a neuter and not a tomcat as stated in the title too. The kittens need their mother right now, not the male.

The female could be coming into heat, have mastitis or anything else wrong with her - since the male is going after her, that often happens when a cat is ill. Are there enough plates of food being put down? As you mention it happens around food, I'd be putting out more plates around the room. 

missymotus said:

The male needs to not have access to the mother if he's attacking her, even if the kittens like to play with him. Glad that he's a neuter and not a tomcat as stated in the title too. The kittens need their mother right now, not the male.

The female could be coming into heat, have mastitis or anything else wrong with her - since the male is going after her, that often happens when a cat is ill. Are there enough plates of food being put down? As you mention it happens around food, I'd be putting out more plates around the room. 

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I believe they are going to take Maggie to the vet tomorrow morning, they are thinking she may be coming down with a cold, as she's apparently gone off her food since I posted this this morning.

P3 and The King said:

  If Guss wants them, let him have them.  I've known a lot of males to take over with kittens, neutered and intact.  It's strange but contrary to popular belief, males don't always want to harm kittens.  Usually, it's if they're orphaned kittens but still....

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We had a farm tom like this who's name was Kalka, but we affectionately called him "big momdad", he would babysit kittens when the mothers left and all the queens loved him, they would rub on him and cuddle with him even out of heat cycles, oddly enough we got him nuetered after he started having issues with his kidneys and his babysitting stopped and he turned into a grouchy old thing he actually killed a kitten not long after being neutered, and had to be put to sleep from kidney failure a year or so later =(

Gibbly said:

We had a farm tom like this who's name was Kalka, but we affectionately called him "big momdad", he would babysit kittens when the mothers left and all the queens loved him, they would rub on him and cuddle with him even out of heat cycles, oddly enough we got him nuetered after he started having issues with his kidneys and his babysitting stopped and he turned into a grouchy old thing

he actually killed a kitten not long after being neutered, and had to be put to sleep from kidney failure a year or so later =(

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My guess is he proceed to have troubles and pains from his kidneys.  Cats with pains dont have the same patience as otherwise, and are giving "lessons for free", either these is need for them or not.

So I think his change in behaviour wasnt oddly, just a symptom.   Poor guy..

I'm on the side of let the kittens stay with the boy cat and only see the mom for feedings and start weaning them. :nod:

StefanZ said:

  Cats with pains dont have the same patience as otherwise, and are giving "lessons for free", either these is need for them or not.

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Btw, now when MissyMotus mentions it, it strikes me the mom may have some problem, and this is why she overdoes her lessons.

Another possibility is, she wasnt great friend with Guss already before, and now, feeling the smell of Guss on the kittens, he is "teaching" Guss if not in practice so in theory so to speak....

Good they are taking the mom to the vet for a check up.

Anyway, if it doesnt works out with the mom, they do have the plausible alternative with Guss. As long as the adults dont meet, it should work out either way.

Jack has raised several kittens when momma got tired. He partly raised Zab and TIppy and Tipply's now gone brother. All three of them loved kittens, and would tolerate anything they did within reason. The three remaining boys will wash, teach and warm kittens, teach them to eat real food, and anything the kittens need to know, including manners. A neighbour's tom would live here in part of the time and he also loved kittens, he would let them crawl over him, try nursing and all he would do was purr and wash them.; Gimpy was not neutered either, just took on the baby raising responsibilities. Toms, neutered or not, taking care of older kittens isn't that unusual. Unfortunately for all of them, no more kittens and Jack's last kitten is a brat, my fault, not his, and he STILL treats her like a kitten, right down to pinning her when she does something offensive. One great benifit - not ONE of those cats scratch, bite or have many of the behaviours that so many find objectionable: no yowling, no fighting, no furniture clawing. the worst fault is they must be up high, so Jack taught them well.

I just heard back a bit ago, they took Maggie to the vet and apparently she's got a fever, and mastitis, the vet felt small hard bumps in several of her tits.

I can't remember the rest of what was said because i happened to be half asleep when she called xD
 

Great they took her to the vet, hopefully she starts to feel better soon

Things could have turned out horribly if you'd passed on the majority advice of just letting the male have the kittens. Mastitis can be quite toxic and require antibiotics

Gibbly said:

I just heard back a bit ago, they took Maggie to the vet and apparently she's got a fever, and mastitis, the vet felt small hard bumps in several of her tits.

I can't remember the rest of what was said because i happened to be half asleep when she called xD
 

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Aww, poor baby. No wonder she was acting that way. She didn't feel good, & was in pain! I'm surprised she let the kittens nurse at all having that. for Maggie.