Mazy cat's new record!

Gail, I know you don't want to add anything else to her routine.... But.... Have you thought about SEB? Slippery Elm Bark might really help her.... Usually used on the last meal, before going to bed. If bought in capsule, one capsule, mixed with 2Tbsp of hot water, let it gell up and cool before giving it to her. If you buy the powder, you mix 1/4 TSP to the same qty of water.

I started giving it to Bugsy. I make it for him with that "water" that's left from defrosting the meat - I make a gravy and just serve it to him with the meal. He LOVES it.
I give to him to help with hairballs in conjunction with lecithin.
For him, I will give it twice a week - that's how it is used for hairballs.
For reflux, or acid problems like Mazy's, they say to give it every day..... There is a lot of information out there.... It is really good stuff.
http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/
Anyways, just something to think about it..... might make a difference for her.....

Thank you Carolina I HAVE been thinking about slippery elm bark, so your reply is very helpful and timely. I've read it's a good anti-inflammatory, too. In fact I've already started giving her more of the Vets-Best hairball relief, which contains it, but also contains other things too.

So, slippery elm is the next thing to try. I am taking her off the Prozyme. I see no benefit and she's stopped playing almost entirely, since being on it for one month. All she does is sleep. I'll update the digestive enzyme thread, but not until I see if there are any changes after stopping it.

I didn't realize I hadn't updated this thread after perhaps finding a pattern, and Mazy's check up. Her check up went well, vet agrees with my decision to not have any diagnostic testing right now, she is the picture of perfect health, other than the regurgitation issue, though she questioned me closely about food and bowel habits. She wondered if there was still some constipation going on, but I assured her Mazy is having regular BMs and there is no correlation between the regurgitation and her bowels. We talked about food and I told her about my discovery (related below) and she agreed that possibly there was something in that one food that isn't in the others she eats, that may be indigestible to her.

I thought I might have found a pattern after endless searching and going over and over my records. It seemed that 24-36 hours after feeding her a certain canned food that is high in carbs, Mazy would regurgitate. It's a food she loves, but when I discovered how high in carbs it is I stopped feeding two meals (meals, not days) a week and dropped it to one meal every 7-10 days. So I thought I saw a pattern there. 24-36 hours after she had a meal (.75 ounces, 3/4 of an ounce) of that food, she would regurgitate in the morning.

I also was seeing that after a regurgitation she would jump in the litter box and have a big pee, so I wondered if her full bladder was making her uncomfortable enough that the food didn't settle. So I've trained her to come down with me when I scoop first thing in the morning, and pee. Mazy has always been very accommodating about peeing on command for me. She also tells me when she is going to to pee, because she knows I want to see her do it.

So all that and things seemed to be going extremely well, she did have a couple of urpy days here and there, and I gave a pepcid dose when I sensed she was having trouble and and she kept all her meals down. I was beginning to feel really really hopeful that she would make it past her record of 15 days.

Yesterday would have been 15 days. But late last night, up her last meal came, with the previous meal also. (chunks of turkey thigh) There was nothing to prepare me EXCEPT I was gone from home slightly over 8 hours. But she goes that long overnight without trouble. When I got home I tossed around the idea of giving her a pepcid dose but decided against it. I don't want to have to rely on those.

She hasn't had the food I was thinking might be the trigger, in almost 3 weeks. Her bladder was empty, her bowels were empty. I could see that last meal wasn't sitting right and I tried to distract her. I held her upright as long as she would tolerate it, then got on the floor with her and engaged her in play. Nothing worked, she was determined to empty her stomach.

So 15 days remains the record.

Would giving her the pepcid when I first got home had made a difference? I will never know. But I don't want to have to rely on that!

PS She is still taking the prozyme. but it hasn't made a bit of difference that I can see.

Mazy was still urpy earlier yesterday, after her regurgitation of the night before. That is the usual pattern, once she regurgitates, she feels urpy for up to three days more. She kept her meals down yesterday but I could tell she was uncomfortable, so I gave her the pepcid dose. She felt much better after that and there has been no signs of any trouble since. I don't know why she gets this acid build up periodically. I look and look for patterns but when I think I have found one, and make the applicable change, it doesn't make any difference, after all.

It is not caused by hairballs. The egg yolk lecithin has completely eradicated her chronic hairball problem. She passes the fur in her poop, every few days she has a poop that is mostly fur.

She's been on the digestive enzymes for 8 weeks now, and I am not seeing any differences, toward the claims that are made for giving cats this supplement, such as more energy, better coat and so on. Mazy is very active, her activity level picked up when I took her off the c/d (a year ago now), and increased even more after starting her on the raw diet (4 months), but there is no significant change since staring the digestive enzymes. Same with her coat quality, it improved with the diet improvements, but I don't see any difference since starting the Prozyme.

The ONLY change, in fact is in her stool, it looks more like a 100 % raw fed cat's poop than a can fed cat's poop though more of it, even though she only slightly over 1/3 raw fed, the rest canned.

So, I start counting again. Today is day two.

Aw..... I was so hopeful you'd found the link.

I guess a way to look at it is.... she isn't dependent on pepcid daily.

Thanks Laurie. Yes, I am learning the pattern well enough to recognize when I need to start the pepcid, and when I can stop it. What I learned from this last episode is, once I see that she needs that help, I should continue with it for three days, even if I don't want to, then when the episode passes, stop it until the next time.

So that's what I will try next time.

I always feel really bad on the day, but then start to feel better when a few days distance and Mazy getting back to normal gives me some perspective.


I have to remind myself:

It's going to take time for her body to heal, and it may never heal completely. It's been one year since I took her off the c/d

She's gone from regurgitating daily....

to every other day, then..

every three days, then..

every 6 or 7 days, then..

every 8 or 9 days...

and now the stretches are every 14 or 15 days.

When I look at it like that, I see a year of steady progress, I know it is, but I am impatient I guess and want her to be done with it, forever.

This morning I forgot to hurry down and clean the litter boxes first thing after Mazy's pre-meal. I have trained Mazy to come with me, and empty her bladder at that time. So this morning after she ate her pre-meal she went over and sat by the stairs waiting for me. I was distracted and every time I looked at her she said "prrt!" getting more and more emphatic, but it took a while for me to realize what she was waiting for. Finally I remembered, and it was with great relief that she hurried down ahead of me, then jumped into each box to show me where they needed to be cleaned, and finally, peeing in one of them. My funny clever girl.

Holly Molly, from once a day to once every 15 days is a tremendous progress!
I will not be surprised if she heals completely...... Give her time..... at the rate she is going..... I do think she will get there :nod:

What about SEB? Have you put some more thought into it?

Thanks for the suport Carolina! I would say the same thing to anyone else, but it's different when it's me, you know?

I'm still thinking about the slippery elm bark. She does get some, in the Vet's-Best hairball relief I use to dust some of her food, when she is slow to eat it. Vet's-Best has SEB, psyllium and marshmallow.

I read some info on SEB that gave me pause. I may have misunderstood the comment, and in fact I wrote to the vet who wrote the article, for clarification, and she answered, but I still am not sure I understood what she meant. The paragraph in the article led me to think that using SEB can be contraindicated in cats who form struvite crystals. My vet is mistrustful of 'herbal' remedies, so she had no opinion on it either way, except to tell me she doesn't like herbal remedies, which I already knew. :lol3:

I read that too much SEB can interfere with nutrient absorption, also. So, as you can see, I am still weighing the pros and cons. I have not ruled it out. I am just not ready to try it yet.

Oh hey, by the way. Suddenly Mazy's whiskers have BLOSSOMED. Mazy has always had rather short skimpy whiskers. Yesterday I noticed they have gotten really long and FULL. I'm wondering if this is a result of the Prozyme. If so, it is the only benefit I have seen so far, but, now that I see these new and improved whiskers, I think I will give the Prozyme a little more time :lol3:

PS I HAVE started her on the B complex supplement. So I'll see if that makes any difference.

....dddddrrrrruuummmmrrrrooolllllll.....Mazy cat has passed her record of 15 days regurgitation free yesterday!



Changes I have made since her last episode:

Back to one and only one canned food for her canned food portions. The By Nature Organic Turkey&Chicken seems to be the ONLY canned food she can tolerate. She still eats Rad Cat Raw and Prey Model Raw, 1.55 ounces of raw a day (out of 4.25 ounces food total)

A morning pepcid dose (1/4 of a 10 mg tablet of pepcid ac) every four days, regardless of whether she is acting like she needs it or not. Every four days, no exception.

Vitamin B complex supplement daily, which contains B-12 and folic acid, especially.

Egg yolk lecithin (for hairballs) daily. She is getting a whole capsule a day during shedding season, half in the morning, half in the evening, with her first meal that breaks the 7 hour span without food.

She is now having Stella&Chewy's freeze dried raw, the duck&goose, two meals a week. (replacing two canned meals) I am watching her urine pH closely to make sure the bone in the S&C and my hard well water doesn't cause her pee to go alkaline. (Mazy continues to tell me when she has to pee so I can go down with her, or comes down when I call her and pees, so I can test her urine)

I have stopped the digestive enzymes. I wasn't seeing any benefits after 3 months on it, and it seemed to me she wasn't playing as much. The ONLY physical change in her I saw was that her whiskers became very luxuriant. After stopping it, she seems much more active. I will watch her whiskers to see if they go back to their pre-digestive enzyme size and condition, just for curiosity sake. Not that they were poorly in any way, but they were always rather short and skimpy.

Now we are 16 days, and counting. I am so happy!

Fabulous news!!  She is such a beautiful cat....I just love the brown tabby look!

Gail, that's wonderful news!!!! Such a beautiful girl! :heart2:

Thanks you guys! I was so happy!

The streak ended this morning, on what would have been day 17. No warning. No signs of feeling urpy, in fact she has been very lively all morning, playing Stair Games with me. Had a pee after her pre-meal. Had a pepcid two days ago. Just gave her her second meal (45 minutes after the first) and up it came.

Wait a minute....she's just gone down to poop.....hmmm.....so it is possible that ANY sort of discomfort, be it full bladder or full bowels, triggers that darn regurgitation response.

Well, anyway, so on we go. 16 days is longer than she has ever gone, so progress is still being made.

And yes, she is my own special precious Brown Tabby Cat. Her coat has gotten to be such a lovely rich brown with such creamy swirls, and her red (ish) tummy

Awwww..... :rub:

Interesting on the discomfort theory. :nod: Spooky simply doesn't eat when she's got a discomfort issue going on. :dk:

Well my theory is, she isn't in discomfort until after she eats. But again, I could be way off. As you know I am constantly looking for patterns that ultimately don't pan out. The one pattern that is SURE is this one:


She's gone from regurgitating daily....

to every other day, then..

every three days, then..

every 6 or 7 days, then..

every 8 or 9 days...

every 14 or 15 days.

And now, 16 days! If she can go 16 days once, she can do it again. It's been a long long road, but she's getting there! The pattern is...each time she hits a new record, it hangs there for a while, and then she moves on to an even longer span.

It has been one year and fifteen days since I first took her off the c/d kibble. Five months and ten days since starting her on partial raw.

16 days is longer than she has ever gone, so progress is still being made.

There is more good news. Often, when Mazy does have a regurgitation episode, it repeats for two or three days before she stops again. I mean, once she regurgitates, she is likely to regurgitate the next day, and the day after that too, before getting back on track. Not this time. Knowing she might still be urpy I gave her a pepcid dose again this morning, but there is no sign today of her trouble. So that seems to be another hurdle overcome. Not only is she going longer than ever before without the regurgitation, the duration of the urpy episodes, when they do come, is shorter.

That is great news. I'm so happy for you that Mazy continues to improve and reach different milestones.

7 days since the last regurgitation, and as I mentioned it was only one day, did not continue for two or three days in a row as it used to.

This morning Mazy cat actually came to me and told me she was having trouble. She had already had her pre-breakfast meal and was not due to have a pepcid until tomorrow. Mazy has a great sense of time and knows that a half hour after her pre-meal is breakfast time, and she usually does come to my lap at that time.

This time though she came 10 minutes early and got on my lap making the snuffling noises she sometimes makes when she has acid reflux. Usually when this happens she does the snuffling, then starts running and puking as she runs. Instead she came to me to show me she wasn't feeling well.

I gathered her in my arms (something she doesn't normally allow) in hopes that she could hold off with the vomiting if I held her, and one handed snatched the pepcid container (I keep a container of them already cut to dose) and the PureBites chicken.

As I lowered her to the floor (she was still snuffling) I managed to get the PureBites bag opened so she could smell it. On the floor I quickly gave her a piece, and she ate it right up and stopped snuffling. I then mashed the pepcid dose into another PureBite piece, mashing another piece on top (that is how I always give her the pepcid now) and she gobbled that too. I gave her two more small pieces to make sure the pepcid was washed all the way down.

She went to a favorite spot and crouched for a few minutes, looking like she still didn't feel too well. About 10 minutes later she had settled into a contented tucked position. 15 minutes after that I decided it would be safe to start the breakfast meal which she ate with enthusiasm and kept down without looking like she is having any more tummy trouble.

I am SO PROUD of Mazy cat for coming to tell me she needed help. When did she learn that if she tells me she feels bad I will give her something to make her feel better? What an amazing cat she is.

So, instead of me cleaning up a mess this morning, we're still counting, thanks to Mazy cat's fast thinking.

What a sweet story. Yay, Mazy!

Thank you! She hasn't had any more trouble today, so her streak is still on. Gosh, she's such a clever girl. She's always been able to learn how to tell me the things she knows I want to know. She tells me when she's going down to pee, and now she is telling me when she feels urpy!

She'll be celebrating her Gotcha Day in 2 days, February 19, 2005. Eight years she's been with me, eight years and one month since the day she Chose me at the shelter. What a long way she has come from that unsocialized half grown cat. I never dreamed in those days that I'd be able to handle her and communicate with her the way I do now. Gosh I just love her so much!

What an amazingly clever cat! And good for you for listening and knowing what she was telling you. Good teamwork you two!