Mazy cat's new record!

TobyTyler said:

Awwww, how cute. :9:   You should teach her to type!

Click to expand...

Teech MEE, myownself, tew tipe? (kitty snort) EY ken TIPE, anin mush BETTAH den myown muvver.

Nanow, eggsKUZE mee, Ey muss goa pway wiff Queen Eva.

Mazy cat

otto said:

Teech MEE, myownself, tew tipe? (kitty snort) EY ken TIPE, anin mush BETTAH den myown muvver.
Nanow, eggsKUZE mee, Ey muss goa pway wiff Queen Eva.
Mazy cat

Click to expand...

That is a classic!

Mazy went three days without regurgitation this time, then, regurgitated two mornings in a row. I finally gave her a pepcid, BUT..I also discovered that on the last three morning regurgitations I had forgotten to give her the probiotic the night before.

So, we're counting again, today will be day four which is not really remarkable, it isn't until we edge past one week that I start getting excited again, and that 15 days was wonderful, I think she can do even better.

Today's news is exciting though, Mazy just ate .85 (point eight five) ounces of canned food all at once and kept it down. Her last meal was four hours ago, and I decided to risk it. And the risk was worth it! I hovered after she ate....watching closely. She burped....then burped again.

About the burping....part of Mazy's problem is...the habit of regurgitation is deeply ingrained. She's so used to bringing the food up, she doesn't really know how to let the air up without the food coming up too. But she's learning. Today was a big step. Never before have I fed her that much all at once. Burp, burp, no regurgitation. I won't always feed her that much at once, but I had to try it.

otto said:

Today's news is exciting though, Mazy just ate .85 (point eight five) ounces of canned food all at once and kept it down. Her last meal was four hours ago, and I decided to risk it. And the risk was worth it! I hovered after she ate....watching closely. She burped....then burped again.
About the burping....part of Mazy's problem is...the habit of regurgitation is deeply ingrained. She's so used to bringing the food up, she doesn't really know how to let the air up without the food coming up too. But she's learning. Today was a big step. Never before have I fed her that much all at once. Burp, burp, no regurgitation. I won't always feed her that much at once, but I had to try it.

Click to expand...

Amazing Mazy!  Is that what her name is short for?  

I could always tell when Toby was about to vomit. (it happened automatically if he was in the car).  He would start doing this 'Ayyy yiii yi yihah' (like the frito bandito) almost in a human voice and very loud.  The first time I heard it I thought he was posessed!

Why yes, Mazy has been called Amazing Mazy many times in her life. :heart3:

This isn't vomiting though, she is regurgitating. It's a long story, with a couple of threads here on the subject, but Mazy was on Hills c/d multicare kibble for 6 1/2 years, and her digestive system was just about ruined from it. Daily regurgitation, often more than once a day, constipation, dull coat, heavy shedding, mass doses of petroleum based hair ball remedies, low activity... her situation was a mess.

At one time I actually felt almost hopeless that even after changing her to the canned my other cats ate (though she could only tolerate ONE food at first), it was too late. But adding raw has made a huge difference for her, and I now have hope that there may come a day when I actually stop counting the regurgitation-free days, because it will be the norm for her. It's been just over 11 months since I stopped the c/d kibble (January 2012). It's been a long road, and we aren't to the end of it yet, but I have a lot more hope than I did even back in July.

Mazy cat went 8 days regurgitation free this time, after her last bout (which lasted 3 regurgitations out of four days, after 15 days with no regurgitation). I could tell she felt urpy this morning, and I was very careful about quantities and spacing servings, plus I gave her a pepcid dose (1/4 of a 10 mg tablet), but she was determined to bring it up, no matter what. No fur in it, and she is pooping and peeing fine. The fur is going out the way it should. She just seems to get this sour stomach, and I can't find any pattern to it. The odor of the regurgitated contents is sour, which is how I know now that the problem starts before she even eats.

Her coat is lovely and soft, her energy level is better than ever, and her appetite is excellent and her weight is steady. After this morning's hurl, she's eaten with good appetite and kept everything down.

Oh I missed all of this. :rub:

But this is still seriously progress! :nod:

otto - I'm wondering about digestive enzymes? I wonder if in addition to the probiotic, they might help with the sour tummy/burping problem? :dk: If her GI system was so affected by the years of kibble, it's going to take some time for her insides to heal. And perhaps having the support of enzymes to help her properly digest the higher protein diet - that she didn't have for so many years - might help?

Sigh.....I've been reluctant to add still more to her supplement load, but maybe you're right Laurie. But...I've researched them before, and they all seem to have at least one thing that I don't want to use.

Is there a brand or brands that you recommend? And why?

Sorry - that's one thing I've never researched. During the transition I bought Prozyme, but never really used it. I'd offer to send it to you, but I gave it to someone at the vet's office. Have you looked at Mercola's site? Maybe they have something you like? :dk: Found this: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/digestive-enzymes-for-pet.aspx

 Tried to send a pm, but was over limit.  Will pm later, hopefully you can sometime read the whole thread and understand.

LDG said:

Sorry - that's one thing I've never researched. During the transition I bought Prozyme, but never really used it. I'd offer to send it to you, but I gave it to someone at the vet's office. Have you looked at Mercola's site? Maybe they have something you like? :dk: Found this: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/digestive-enzymes-for-pet.aspx

Click to expand...

Thanks Laurie. That one does look okay, not a lot of extra junk but one...the one "other ingredient" is cellulose. Cellulose! Why? Why can't she have all the good things, and just leave out the cellulose?

I have become such a.....skeptic...now, that there is no pleasing me, when I look at these supplements and find things in them, the very things I am trying to get AWAY from, with feeding raw. It's why I am sticking with the Proviable DC, too. The for-human probiotic I've seen recommended may have better and more live cultures, but they all seem to have other things in them that I do not want my cats to have. The raw feeding balancing supplements always seem to have a few things I don't want my cats to have. No matter where I turn, there is always something. It's so FRUSTRATING.

The one thing, the meals that Mazy never ever regurgitates are her Prey Model meals (as long as I don't give her beef). Even now that I am trying bigger chunks, she keeps those down. But I am still, just too afraid to switch her over to completely homemade raw, or even half Rad Cat and half homemade. Right now she is getting one ounce of Rad Cat and .55 ounces of boneless PMR, with the balance in canned.

Well, I'll see how things go. She went 15 days, and she went 8 days, so lets see if things keep getting better.

Gail, is she only regurgitating in the morning?
I am worndering if this isn't a case of high acid production..... Bugsy had this for quite a while actually..... It is somewhat common with new kids on raw because of the higher acid production.
I had to be very careful to not let him go too long in between late dinner and breakfast - if I was late with breakfast at all, he would vomit

A few of things you can do:
1- Serve late night dinner later and breakfats earlier, bringing both meals closer together - do you remember if you were late for breakfast that day, or early for late night dinner the day before?
What times do you feed your meals?

2- serve a snack either right before you go to bed, very late at night, or right after you wake up, before breakfast, before you actually start preparing the meal. Not much, just a few pieces of freeze dry chicken. That will help to get rid of the acid.

3- add digestive enzymes - that semms to help with that issue......

To me, what seems to help the most is to bring the meals together.

If you think this is hairball related, increasing the amount of lecithin will help. Temporarily Bugsy is on 1 capsule a day - it completely got rid of his racking now..... It is VERY hot here in Texas still, but as soon as it cools down for good I will drop for 1/2 capsule a day, the same I am giving to the other cats.

Thanks Carolina. Yes, most times the regurgitation is in the morning. I am sure it is sour stomach from acid production, but not sure how to combat it, as it doesn't happen all the time. I think part of her problem is that the years of almost daily regurgitation has given her a ..reflex action. When she feels a burp coming on, instead of letting up the burp, she just brings up the food, from habit. I have seen her burp and then keep it down, so she can do it. It's just.....not always. For a long time she took pepcid every morning, but I haven't had to do that for a couple of months now.

Mazy never goes more than 8 hours without food, even over night. They all get a meal right before I go to bed, and I have Mazy's first morning portion (small, .4 ounces) all ready for the morning. The first thing I do upon rising is get it out of the fridge, warm it up and give it to her. Just Mazy

Then they are all fed a half hour later. I'd been trying to decrease that half hour span to 15 minutes, and was having a lot of success for those 15 days, but then after her three days out of five regurgitating, I went back to waiting a full 30 minutes between her first small portion and the real breakfast, and now am again trying to shorten the gap.

Meals go something like this: (last meal the night before 11:30 pm Mazy had .55 ounces of canned food, and her proviable dc)

7:15 a.m. Mazy-.4 oz canned food

19 minute span

7:34 a.m. Mazy- .4 oz Rad Cat raw turkey, lecithin, Jennie .7 oz canned, plus pumpkin, Queen Eva .55 oz Rad Cat raw turkey plus proviable and lecithin

30 minute span

8:04 a.m. Mazy- .3 oz Rad Cat raw Turkey, Jennie .5 oz canned, Queen Eva .45 oz Rad Cat raw turkey

37 minute span

8:41 a.m. Mazy .4 oz canned, Jennie .3 oz canned, Queen Eva 1.0 oz canned. Queen Eva left .15 ounce, so, taking a little bit of a risk, I gave it to Mazy, and she ate it and kept it down.

Total time from Mazy's first serving to her last one hour 26 minutes.

Total quantities: Mazy, 1.65 ounces, Jennie 1.5 ounces, Queen Eva 1.8 ounces.

Total daily intake for each cat is:

Mazy 4.25 ounces (1.55 raw, 2.7 canned)
Jennie 4.25 ounces (1.1 raw, 3.15 canned)
Queen Eva 5.5 ounces (2.65 raw, 2.85 canned)

The other two meals are done in a similar way. Because Mazy 1) gets sick if she goes longer than 8 hours without food and 2) can only eat a small amount at a time, Mazy always gets that small .4 ounce meal alone, before I start the "real" meal time.

She is taking the egg yolk lecithin, half capsule every other day, and passing fur in her poop. (yep I'm still picking apart the poop :lol3

If I could find a digestive enzyme that didn't have dubious "other ingredients" I would try it. But so far none have pleased me. I don't want to put even more things into her that her system can't handle. Why do these companies always have to put such junk in what might otherwise be a decent product?

What are the dubious ingredients on prozyme? I couldn't see bad ingredients?

The regular-plus (lactose free) has rice starch. The feline version has rice starch, fish eggs and crab meal. And of course they are plant derived. How can that help a cat? Which one do you use Carolina? Maybe I could live with the rice starch, but I just don't know...her system is so sensitive to grains.

The original formula, of course has "milk sugar".

And rice starch or the milk sugar are first ingredients on all versions

I used the original, the one that has lactose. The formula is VERY clean. Look, my probiotic has lactose.... If anyone here would have a problem, would be Bugsy.... Nah. Not the least issue..... So.... In the package it says for dogs and cats, btw.
Yes, enzymes are from plants, and they do work better when they are from plants.... that was my conclusion when I did that research.... Remember, they are there to digest the food the kitty is eating, it is not a supplement the kitty is going to metabolize. The enzymes will work directly on the food.... So yes, even though they are derived from plants, in this case they do help a cat
Also, something to think about: both Bugsy and I have Ibd; we both do much better if we take our probiotics first thing in the morning.... It is a big difference, I definitely feel it is night and day for me.
Last thing.... Do you think you can feed Many a bigger meal before bed time?

Thank you Carolina for the clarifying explanation. Maybe I'll try their "free sample" offer.

Mazy can't eat a "big meal" at any time. Her average size portion is .55 ounces, and that amount has to be spaced at least a half hour from any other meal, most of the time. It takes her about 2 hours to eat 1.5 ounces of food. I am trying to reduce that time to an hour and a half. Have had some success, but then there always comes the backward steps.

She has, a few times managed .75 ounces, and once even .85 ounces, but not very often, usually that much at once will come right back up.

Queen Eva takes her proviable in the morning, but because of the 8 hour fast, I thought it would be better for Mazy to have hers with her last meal before the overnight.

What meal do you give the Prozyme with?

Prozyme with every meal.... Think of it as souping up the digestive enzymes to digest that meal.... Since you do you meal in sessions of tiny meals, you don't need to add to every tiny meal, just for the first meal of the session, since digestion takes a while anyways :nod:
You use a tiny amount; I used the same amount of calcium; I called them to figure how much to use....

Thank you Carolina. Will her body become reliant on this stuff, and then she won't be able to digest on her own, at all, ever?

Since the 'milk sugar' seemed to be the least of all the objectionable additives in all the digestive enzymes I researched I have ordered the Prozyme original. I didn't bother with the "free" sample since they still charged for the shipping, and I could get 5 times as much for only slightly more than twice that elsewhere.

I'm still reluctant though. I don't want her to have to take something like this all her life.

I want her to be able to eat well and keep it down without supplemental help. That may mean going 100% raw with her, but I am too scared to do it with PMR, and I can't afford to do it with Rad Cat.

otto said:

Thank you Carolina. Will her body become reliant on this stuff, and then she won't be able to digest on her own, at all, ever?
Since the 'milk sugar' seemed to be the least of all the objectionable additives in all the digestive enzymes I researched I have ordered the Prozyme original. I didn't bother with the "free" sample since they still charged for the shipping, and I could get 5 times as much for only slightly more than twice that elsewhere.
I'm still reluctant though. I don't want her to have to take something like this all her life.
I want her to be able to eat well and keep it down without supplemental help. That may mean going 100% raw with her, but I am too scared to do it with PMR, and I can't afford to do it with Rad Cat.

Click to expand...

Oh no, not at all.... This is only for a while.... With time her own body will produce enough enzymes on her own to digest the food....
Eating kibbles all her life does that to the kitty. But with time and proper food their system get in tune they get better.....
Bugsy used to have these issues too, and so did Lucky, for that matter. Acid build up was a huge issue for Bugsy. None of them need enzymes anylonger, and are just fine.
Today they only have issues if I am severely late for a meal, while in the beginning Bugsy had problems very often in the morning, no matter what. Enzymes and closer together meals did the trick for him.
Now that his system has adjusted to raw, he is doing great and he has no regurgitation issues, even if the meal is late and without enzymes :nod: