WORRIED, Angel having trouble peeing again!

angels mommy

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Angel has been doing great sense the bladder problem he had in August. (was positive for bacteria walls were inflamed, were some very small crystals, but didn't pass any, & didn't need surgery) See the old thread, "Had to rush Angel to the vets."

Back to tonight. About 10:30, he threw up, but it was a hair ball. It just happened to be covered in food, because he had just eaten.

He then pooped in the litter box. Over the next half hr. he tried to pee 5XS, but there was nothing. 8XS total in the now last hour.

I checked his bladder feeling around, to see if  I felt anything hard, but there wasn't, so that's good. another good thing is that he did

pee earlier today, so he has gone today. So, after all of that, sense he was empty, I gave him a little of his raw food. (Bravo Pattie).

I also sprinkled a little of my pro-biotic on it for him. After him trying to pee so many times, I decided to give him one of his anti-spasmodic

pills left over from August. (This is what finally helped him pee on his own during his stay at the vets, that enabled him to come home after 2 nights).  A little later, he pooped a little again. ......o.k. he just tried again & there was a tiny bit, so I hope that's a good sign. the litter

clump was he size of a small grape. He's back in there again, right now. nothing. I am hoping that the anti-spasmodic kick in, &

he can go. I really don't want to have to take him to the emergency vet. I'm still paying off august. I know it will be a few hundred dollars, just to walk in the door there. I am hoping he goes w/ the help of the pills, until I can take him to his vet on Monday morning.

It's midnight here on the east coast, if anyone is still up. I'm sure I'll be going to bed shortly, but   any advice is appreciated.

I should add, he has been playing, like nothing is wrong, so pretty sure he is not in pain.
 
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carolina

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Hum..... If it was me, I wouldn't wait for Monday morning..... And you are in the east Coast? What if you are affected by the hurricane?
If this was my cat, Angel would be in the crate going to the ER tonight. Trying to pee 8-10 times and nothing coming out is NOT a good sign.... I would not be happy with a grape size pee after an anti-spasmodic pill. My opinion.... FWIW..... :vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes:
 
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angels mommy

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Thanks Carolina,  that was after just giving it to him, so don't think it was in his system yet. Wanted to give it a chance to work, sense that's what got him to pee at the vets before. GOOD NEWS, this morning at 8:30 he peed. it was a decent moderate amount. I felt his bladder again, & this time it felt empty!
  He ate half a bravo burger just now for breakfast. He went to go again & a little did come out. not much, but something.

I will call the emergency vet & see what they think. I am hoping as long as he peed yesterday morning, before all of this started last night,

& he was able to pee this morning,  he should be o.k. until I can get him to his vet's in the morning. He is also still playing, like he feels good, so am  sure he is not in pain. As long as he is peeing, & his bladder doesn't feel hard, I think he will be o.k. until morning.

Trust me, if he hadn't peed at all, I would be taking him.( I just hate to add high emergency fees to the care credit I'm still paying for August.)

Of course I will be closely monitoring him, I follow him to the litter box every time to chk.  I also think he peed a little before the 8:30 time this morning, because when I got up, I noticed 3 poofy clumps (the pine melts this way frm pellets to sawdust), on the living room floor, so he had to have went a decent small amount for that to stay on him as he walked to the next room. (have to pick up some more clumping).

I'll keep you posted.
 

carolina

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Thanks Carolina,  that was after just giving it to him, so don't think it was in his system yet. Wanted to give it a chance to work, sense that's what got him to pee at the vets before. GOOD NEWS, this morning at 8:30 he peed. it was a decent moderate amount. I felt his bladder again, & this time it felt empty! :clap2:   He ate half a bravo burger just now for breakfast. He went to go again & a little did come out. not much, but something.
I will call the emergency vet & see what they think. I am hoping as long as he peed yesterday morning, before all of this started last night,
& he was able to pee this morning,  he should be o.k. until I can get him to his vet's in the morning. He is also still playing, like he feels good, so am  sure he is not in pain. As long as he is peeing, & his bladder doesn't feel hard, I think he will be o.k. until morning.
Trust me, if he hadn't peed at all, I would be taking him.( I just hate to add high emergency fees to the care credit I'm still paying for August.)
Of course I will be closely monitoring him, I follow him to the litter box every time to chk.  I also think he peed a little before the 8:30 time this morning, because when I got up, I noticed 3 poofy clumps (the pine melts this way frm pellets to sawdust), on the living room floor, so he had to have went a decent small amount for that to stay on him as he walked to the next room. (have to pick up some more clumping).
I'll keep you posted.
:vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes:
Can you at least get more of these pills from the e-vet to hold him up until tomorrow? Is that something they will do for you?
 
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angels mommy

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Okay, just talked to the emergency clinic. An exam is 85.00, so not as much as I thought it would be. However, I asked about an ultrasound,

because I know that is what they would need to do to see anything, & she said they wouldn't be able to, because the Dr. that does them is not there this weekend. So, the most they could do is get a urine sample.  So, my question is, if they can't do an ultrasound, should I bother to even go, as long as I have some anti-spasmodic here?
    He also is drinking his water.
 
 
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angels mommy

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I have enough. There are 5 left. After he was all better, follow ups & all, I saved them, "Just in case" we had a big storm & we had to go over to my parents house. (Sense they are also anti anxiety).

It's the Amitriptyline. 10mg.
 

otto

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Since he is still able to expel urine, he isn't blocked. It is the pain/irritation that makes him continue to go back to the litter box and squat. That discomfort makes him feel like he always has to go, which adds stress which makes things worse. Poor boy, he must have quite a bit of inflammation. However, keep checking him and make sure he keeps passing urine. If he does block, as you know, he will be in agony, and can die rather quickly. THAT the ER can help with because they can catheterize him and empty his bladder.

Does the medicine you have for him lessen discomfort of inflammation? Since he is peeing, it is his discomfort I would be most concerned with, because pain is very frightening to a cat. That he is playing and eating is good, but it doesn't mean he isn't in pain, since cats hide pain until it is so excruciating they can barely move.

:vibes::vibes: Angel
 
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angels mommy

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Thanks otto, I am taking him to the E.R. He just tried again, & saw one little piece of litter was pink!!  No, the med is not anti inflammatory. Back in Aug. they gave him Glucosomine for that.

He ran out a week or two ago, so thought by now, he should be fine. Maybe that's what's going on?? Maybe he has to stay on it from now on.
 

otto

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Oh, I think you are doing the right thing. yes, some cats need to be on glucosamine permanently, or maybe krill oil (also an anti inflammatory)

:vibes::vibes::vibes: Angel :heart3:

Keep us posted.
 

andrya

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Aww, poor Angel (and poor you). Sending vibes that he feels better quickly. 
 
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angels mommy

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Thanks everyone.
  Were back. Looks like it's cystitis again.
 The Doc couldn't get a urine sample because he was empty,(good) so will have to get that tomorrow at his vet.

He gave him a 14 day antibiotic shot. He didn't feel comfortable putting him on anything stronger w/ out a sample. (He said the one he was on in Aug. was a strong one, Zeniqin).

He also said to keep him on the Amitriptyline, that some cats w/ this chronic condition stay on it long term. (well, lets hope it doesn't become chronic!) 

They didn't have any Corci-q, (sp??don't remember) (glucosomine) so will have to get that tomorrow too.

He did a little pee,pee when we got home. I gave him an egg yolk as a treat. (hormone free of course)
  Now he's napping in his carrier.

I'll call his vet first thing in the morning.
 

otto

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Thanks for the update! Cosequin I think is the word you want. :)

You might ask your vet for something for pain for him tomorrow. Buprenex has always helped my girls so much when they had a UTI (none for years thank goodness, but when I used to feed Wellness I was having some trouble that way)
 

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Oh no, hun!

Here's what may be happening - we're going through this with Spooky. He had struvite crystals before when he blocked. I know he was catheterized, pumped with fluids, and then given sub-q fluids at home for... 2 weeks?

Spook had the struvites, and we put her on a urine acidifer (methoinine capsules, 500mg, which I gave half a capsule twice a day), prednisone to reduce the inflammation in her bladder, and she had sub-q fluids every other day for two weeks. She stayed on the methionine and pred for a month.

I purchased pH test strips, because I wanted to make sure I didn't overdo it with the methionine, I didn't want her urine pH too low (and I only tested it when it was at least four hours after a meal - which meant I could only test her every 3-4 days, based on when she went and when I was there to see her go and slip the little strip in her pee stream).

About a week or so after she came off the pred and methionine, her pH started to climb back up.

Now - she had three stones in her bladder that were too big to flush back in March, which is probably what caused the rise in her urine pH to begin with. I figured the stones were still there. We went for an ultrasound this past Tuesday. The good news? Those stones were GONE! They DID dissolve!

BUT... she still had "sand and sludgy debris" in her bladder. BUT her bladder walls are NOT inflamed.

So I've put her back on the methionine. The vet looked it up, and had me up the amount to 1,000mg a day (!!!!) and I'm giving her sub-q fluids daily now for two weeks, then every other day for two weeks. Now - I took her methionine down on my own, because her pH has hit 6.25. I am giving her 1/2 a capsule with each meal (so that's 250mg 3x a day). After this regimen, we'll bring her in for a urinalysis - to see if there are any struvites in her pee.

But basically, because he was blocked with inflammation before, it may well be that even though you gave him all those fluids at home, it still wasn't enough to flush everything out. And the very existence of any "sludge" left in there would raise his pH - which becomes circular, because then the excess struvite crystals form again. :rolleyes:

Also, if you find out tomorrow that his bladder wall is inflamed, and this may be from stress, WhollyCat recommended 25mg of L-Theanine a day. It can be used long term without side affect, and it helps stressed kitties de-stress. :nod: Spooky's pretty highly strung, so I'm using this for her instead of the amytriptaline.

But what you REALLY may want to do is buy some urine pH test strips. I couldn't find any in a pharmacy around here, so I bought them on amazon. They're CHEAP. This way you can keep an eye on things, and identify a problem before it happens - which is what we just did with Spooky. :nod: As soon as I saw that urine pH at 8.0 - I called the vet to schedule the ultrasound to see if those stones were still in there. As you know he doesn't have pre-existing stones in there, this is mostly likely just because there was still some sludge left. :nod: (Unless it's just from stress. :cross: ). At this point, I know the problem isn't Spooky's diet, though she no longer gets freeze dried salmon treats. No fish of any kind for her. But if you do have to do another course of sub-q fluids, once you're done, you can keep an eye on his urine pH, and know whether he's stable or not. :hugs:

:vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:
 
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angels mommy

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Thanks Laurie. I'm having to respond from my phone, so hope this comes through o.k. My computer keeps saying, the page is not responding, no matter what I try. Anyway, ultrasound & sample did show some crystals this time, so yes, I was sent home w/ fluids again, along w/ Amitripptyline, & Dasuqin (glucosamine) they gave him a shot for pain instead of pain pills, cause he hasn't been straining, just frequent trips to the litter box. Poor baby, he has been sitting in the kitchen sense we got home. He is a little zoned out, but sitting in front of his dish like he wantss food, but he has to wait for dinner. "He gained 2 lbs!" The only thing I've done different in the last 2 weeks was give him SMALL amounts (tbs) of Nat. Bal. Duck & green pea dry, as a afternoon & before bed snack. Only one burger a day from now on, 1/2 for breakfast & 1/2 for dinner. I feel bad he won't get a snack other than a cpl of small treats. :(
 
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angels mommy

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Sorry, the phone only let me type so much. o.k. so we have to go back in two weeks for another ultrasound to see if the fluids flushed out the crytals. I will no longer give him any dry, even as a treat. I don't want this to become a regular thing. I don't know what else would've caused it though. I thought sense it had been over a month sene all the good follow ups, that a small amount would be o.k. Other than that, I don't know where it could've come from. There hasn't been any changes, os stress etc..
 

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I really think, for some cats, that even a little dry is just plain bad news. Mazy cat is that way. No dry for her, ever.
 
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angels mommy

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Hi guys, back at work today, so no computer problems. I did think of something that could have caused stress, if it was from that, (but could still be the dry, like you said otto).

Earlier this month our little neighbor kitty had to be put down. When Angel used to go outside, they were around each other. Sometimes they acted like brother & sister, but mostly got along.

She used to hang out up on our porch a lot. A few years ago when she first came around, she was on my porch, so I think she chose me, but with Angel, I couldn't take her, so my neighbor did.

She was a little spitfire, but also a sweet girl. My neighbor is older, so I would help when I could. I would clean her ears for her, & try to get eye drops in her, if I could.

(she still had a little wild streak). She didn't know how to use her paws with out her claws. Even if she was just pawing/tapping at your leg, etc..

I also kept fresh water out for her up on my porch as well. Anyway, being attached to her, I took it pretty hard. She almost acted like a little dog. Everyday when I would get home from work,

She would come running up to my car, as soon as the door opened, & follow me upstairs,( unless she was being called for dinner.)

The first day I came home after she was gone, it really hit me, she wasn't there anymore.  I just sat in my car & cried for a minute, before going upstairs.


 The emotions came & went over the following couple of weeks.

I'm sure Angel picked up on my sadness, along w/ noticing that she wasn't around, up on our porch anymore.
 So it could be stress from all of that as well.

I put some pictures I had of her together & created a photo bucket page, on my account, if anyone would like to see this little girl. click the link below.

http://s1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh632/kelly8-69/Sheba/

  
Rest in Peace little Sheba.
 
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angels mommy

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Oh yea, I get to give Angel fluids again.
 Not easy when you live alone!  Was fortunate to get help from my mom last time, for some days. Will have to find someone for other days.

Otherwise, I may try my big heavy wrap around your neck rice pack. This way, I can drape it over him & he will feel like he is being held down. 
 
 

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I am a big believer in sub-q fluids administered at home. I also live alone.  Here is the method I use to do it by myself.  I always used the same spot for Toby, in his bed right next to the heater.  I had the bag hanging from a coat hanger right over this spot.  I would also warm the fluid in a basin of hot water to make sure it was at body temp, if not slightly warmer.  I never had to restrain him.  I would try to make it as pleasant of an experience as possible.   So I would have everything all ready, place him in his bed and pet him and get him relaxed.  Then I would pick up the nape with one hand, and quickly insert the needle with the other.  I would then roll the clasp to start at just a tiny drip and gradually open it to full force once I could feel the fluid were forming a "pouch".  I would usually have to hold/stroke him with one hand and the line with the other because he would move around alot. I would also talk to him and tell him why I was doing it.  I always followed up with treats, and he EXPECTED treats when he was finished. 
 
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angels mommy

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Thanks Toby, Yes, back in August when this happened for the first time the vet tech showed me how to do it, sense I hadn't before. She gave me a good suggestion. She told me to take the top off of his carrier, then do it that way w/ him in it. The only place I had high enough to hang the bag, & have a place close enough to place him was the bathroom. This is what I did/ will do again;

I hang the bag from the shower rod & have it all ready, like you said.(also warm it up in a bowl of water) Then I put his carrier on top of the toilet seat facing away from it, so I can get the needle in. Usually someone that would be helping me would kneel in front of him with their hands on his shoulders/sides. Not "holding him down, (he was a good boy) but just kind of letting him know he wasn't going anywhere. This way while they held him in place, I could squeeze the bag, to get it over with quicker. (the tech said to do that so it wouldn't take forever). It actually only took approx. 10 Min's ea. time.

(they marked the bag for me, looks like an inch & 1/2 ea. time)  My only dalima if I don't have an extra set of hands is getting him to stay still & not try to jump down, sense no one would be in front of him. I will need to be squeezing the bag & dealing w/ that long tube, & keep him still at the same time. Plus, I don't know if it's standard, but the needle is an 18 gage. It's huge! Poor baby!

But, the tech said anything smaller would just take to long. I guess I can try to stand in front of him & reach over him to deal w/ the bag, once the needle is in. I just like to try & hold the needle in place

because I know it must be painful if it shifts around, plus, don't want it to come out & have to re-stick him if he moves.
 
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