Feral integration advice ...

Hi!  So glad I stumbled across this site.  Let me set the stage for our situation.

We have one rescue greyhound (male - 5.5 years old) and 2 neutered orange tabbies - 9 years old and 1.5 years old.  Everyone lives in harmony right now.  Both cats and dog have free reign of the house.  They are all fed on the same schedule - twice daily, for breakfast and dinner.  The 2 cats share one litter box and are exclusively indoor kitties.  The older cat is a shelter rescue and the younger cat is a stray rescue (definitely socialized w/ humans prior to joining our family - super affectionate!).

About 3-4 weeks ago a young female began frequenting our house.  For the first 3-4 days I saw her I never fed her, yet she was curious and kept returning to our house.  All I could think is she was attracted by our cats.  We began to feed her in the interest of trapping and spaying.

We trapped her on Sunday.  We kept her secluded in a large dog crate (large enough for our greyhound) w/ blankets, food/water, litter box, and small "house" (upside down cardboard box w/ 1 hole on either side).  She was spayed today, Thursday.  She has also been vaccinated, dewormed, etc ...  She is small (5.3 lbs) and the vet estimates 9-10 mos old.

Everything is progressing well.  All of our animals have met her through the crate.  There have been no incidents of aggression aside from the occasional hiss, typically instigated by our males toward her.  She has gently nosed our greyhound, too.  He is indifferent toward cats in general.  She is particularly enamored with our young orange tabby.  Whenever he comes around she comes out of her "house" and rubs up on the crate and tries to get as close to him as she possibly can.  She even rolls onto her back and reaches out for him w/ her paws.  To be clear, the large crate is in our kitchen so our pets see her all the time, and her them.  Likewise, she sees and hears us all the time and is becoming familiar w/ our voices and smells and normal noises of the house.

As for her socialization w/ us humans, she will sniff our fingers and bump her nose on us, but there has been no petting.  She still hisses at us when we get close to her, though that is happening less and less.  And even if she hisses, its once and she holds her ground rather than racing off to her "house".

Here is where our dilemma begins.  As her spay surgery heals we want to keep socializing her, not only w/ our pets but also w/ us.  We cannot keep her in the crate.  But we also cannot give her the whole house right off the bat.  We figure our intermediate solution is to give her our spare bedroom as her sanctuary (cat-proofed, of course).  We are worried, though, that this will take us backward in the socialization w/ our pets.  How can we bridge the gap from crate to house w/o compromising the imperative socialization?  In a sense, putting her in the bedroom will give her a lot more space (positive) but could be a step backward in her socialization progression (negative).

Thanks so much for your thoughts and advice!

-Custer, Sam, Milton, ... and Playdoh in Washington DC

By the way, my profile picture is the feral greeting Milton, our young orange tabby

It sounds to me like you are doing everything right.   I don't know if it's the right thing to do, but what I would do and have always done is keep her in the spare room until she knows it is her "space", which I believe in your situation might only be a day or two and then crack the door so the cats can come and go.  If she is uneasy, she won't venture far.  With the door cracked, she will be able to run back in the room if she needs her safe spot.

Maybe you and hubby could even sleep in the spare room with her.   That is how I did mine when introducing a new arrival.  I sleep in the room with them. I have never had a problem introducing cats in this manner.  But she will not forget the animals in the other part of the house and the fact that they are there and vice versa.  She will be very aware of them and they of her. You have to play it by ear but I would definitely give her some sort of space that is hers.  Since you have two males, more than likely, they will end up liking her.  She will probably end up being the one that sets their boundaries with her after their initial introductions and hissing are over.  Right now, through the crate, they are letting her know that this is their territory.  But she will end up being the boss kitty.  Or at least my females are the bosses.  I have one that I call my "lead female" ...  

With all that you have already done, I think you will be fine. 

There are many others with more experience than me on this site and I'm sure they will be replying to you as well.  I have read posts where putting something that smells like the other animals in her room helps as well, but since yours have already met, that might not be necessary.  I have never done this, but many others have.  I can see the value of this in many situations.  You could even put something of that smells like her for your males and something that smells like them for her.  

And I don't believe this is a feral cat based on her bumping and smelling.  I think she might have been on her own for a while and maybe just has a trust issue and has had to fend for herself.  I think it will be easier than you anticipate.

Good luck~~~~~Jenn

I agree fully with JcRibbs  analysis.

The only question is, how you do the transfers practically. A radical way is, you dont bother about the other room, you just open her crate when the wounds are healed.

This possible, as everything goes so smooth so far, and she prob no real semiferal, but gone astray sometime.

Otherwise, if you want to play it safe and go through the spare bedroom route, do it NOW while she is recovering from the surgery.   You may also sleep there as already suggested.

The plus with this solution is she some extra privacy is very nice for her now.

This whole should go rather smoothly. Her possibility to always go back to her safe spot is a corner stone, of course.

Welcome to our Forums!

Good luck!

Thanks so much for the replies!

I may have painted a rosier picture than reality regarding her behavior.  However, having far less experience than folks here on the forum, I may be misguided in my classification of her.  When we initially trapped her (used a regular metal kennel/crate with string to close the door while she was feeding) she FREAKED!!  I never knew 5 lbs could have so much force.  Just a few minutes after initial capture we transferred her to the large dog crate she is presently in.  For the first 30 minutes or so she was climbing the walls and hanging from the ceiling, much like a monkey.  As she calmed down a bit in the passing hours, any unfamiliar noise sent her back into the climbing/hanging frenzy.  In addition to the climbing she yowled and MEROWED loudly for a day or two. 

She has been captured now for 6 days.  We have made a lot of progress w/ her, but still, nothing beyond the sniff of a finger and quick nose bump.  Its not a bump to rub and mark, but rather almost an accidental bump.

There are quite a few litters in our neighborhood so I suspect she has had a lot of visual interface w/ humans, but we feel she has never been handled.  The vet said she was a HANDFUL to get sedated prior to her spay.  But for what its worth, they said she was nowhere near the most difficult they have dealt with.

Shurg, stray, semi-feral, or feral, she is no house cat so we have some work to do. She is one lucky lady!
 

them freaking out at the catching and some thereafter, is quite common. Gloves, thick long sleeves, and sometimes protective glasses /goggles are a rescuers best friend!

Even some ex homecats can do so.

But OK, the best is prob the slowler route. Ie bedroom, where you do have a better chance of getting friends with her.  so you do safeguard all variations.

She shouldnt have problems with your residents, so for this reason as such you could take the "kitchen"-variation.

Thus, Take it via the extra bedroom anyway. 

Good luck!

spotty4 said:

Thanks so much for the replies!

I may have painted a rosier picture than reality regarding her behavior.  However, having far less experience than folks here on the forum, I may be misguided in my classification of her.  When we initially trapped her (used a regular metal kennel/crate with string to close the door while she was feeding) she FREAKED!!  I never knew 5 lbs could have so much force.  Just a few minutes after initial capture we transferred her to the large dog crate she is presently in.  For the first 30 minutes or so she was climbing the walls and hanging from the ceiling, much like a monkey.  As she calmed down a bit in the passing hours, any unfamiliar noise sent her back into the climbing/hanging frenzy.  In addition to the climbing she yowled and MEROWED loudly for a day or two. 

She has been captured now for 6 days.  We have made a lot of progress w/ her, but still, nothing beyond the sniff of a finger and quick nose bump.  Its not a bump to rub and mark, but rather almost an accidental bump.

There are quite a few litters in our neighborhood so I suspect she has had a lot of visual interface w/ humans, but we feel she has never been handled.  The vet said she was a HANDFUL to get sedated prior to her spay.  But for what its worth, they said she was nowhere near the most difficult they have dealt with.

Shurg, stray, semi-feral, or feral, she is no house cat so we have some work to do.

She is one lucky lady!
 

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Please listen to me.   I have done this many times, with strays, semi ferals and adult ferals.   It's time to put her in a room and let her adjust.  She is not a feral cat.  At some point, she has been handled.  It might have been when she was a kitten, but that is absolutely in your favor.  She has that memory.  I guarantee it.  You would not have been able to transfer her to a crate "right after being captured" if she were feral. That's the bottom line.  And that is wonderful and a big plus for you and your family.  At her age, if feral, the transference to a crate would have been impossible unless she was drugged by a vet or unless she was manhandled with gloves on.  She is freaking out at just being caught since she is not used to confinement.  She wants out and that's why she howling and climbing the walls and she is scared by that.  She has never been confined.  But six days is too long to be in a crate over just getting fixed.  It doesn't matter how big the dog crate is.  It's too long.  She is healed and now she needs to learn her new territory and go at her own pace.  In my opinion, it is hard to socialize an animal confined.  You will never socialize a confined feral in a small area.  Never.  It defeats the purpose of allowing them to trust you.

There is a fine line here in considering the 6 days in a crate, in my opinion.  Feral or semi ferals or strays have to find their own way in the household and each cat has a different time-line in how they deal with it and "everything" time-wise depends on whether they are feral, semi feral or stray.   But all of them HAVE to have the option of going at their own pace and intregrating themselves into the family or you will make no progress at all.   You cannot force socialization at this age.  She is still trapped after all.  Ferals take a whole lot longer than that other two levels of socialization.  Patience is the whole key.

The best thing for her, is her own space and allowing her to move at her own pace.  Let her set the limits.  In a crate, she cannot move at her own pace or set her own limits.  You are doing that for her and that does not create trust.

And yeah, she is one lucky little kitty, but you MUST get her in a larger space "for her own sake" if you want her to adjust and "accept" your love and your household members.  Her trust of you is the absolute most important thing and that can't be forced or made to happen.  It is totally her decision.

With one of mine (an adult feral), I put the crate -- minus the wire door (no confinement)-- in a solitary room -- in an closet - with the closet door cracked to  make it den-like.  I put the litter box outside the closet door so the cat HAD to come out to do it's job and put the food in the closet.  I would quietly enter the room and hum or talk softly and quietly do what I had to do to care for the cat.  I slept in there.  I read in there.  After a few days, I cracked the bedroom door, but the cat did not leave the room for a couple of months, even with the door cracked.  This was a feral adult cat.  I was patient and did not push this cat.  If you push the feral, you make absolutely  no progress because it reinforces their fear of humans. 

Do not push her progress by keeping her confined.  Let her make the decisions and move at her own pace and at her own comfort level.  But the most important thing to do is to get her out of the crate and into a room.  Six days is too long if you are trying to integrate her into your family, and this is for feral, stray or semi-feral. 

While she is trapped, her only thought is of escape.  Get past that hurdle so she can decide that you are okay and that you are going to care for her.  Once she is free in her own space, she will make true progress.  It might be fast or it might be slow, but baby steps are better than no steps.  And in the end, you will be rewarded by her love.

Thanks Jenn.  Sorry, I may have been unclear.  She was trapped on Sunday but we could not get her spayed until Thursday (yesterday).  So she is not yet healed from her spay.

We really want her to interact w/ our pets but confinement in her bedroom will prevent that since we need her to heal a bit more before there is physical contact.  So are you suggesting that is secondary right now?  Is it more important, right now, that she have her space in the bedroom for the next handful of days and then begin cracking the bedroom door so she can physically socialize at her will?
 

We really want her to interact w/ our pets but confinement in her bedroom will prevent that since we need her to heal a bit more before there is physical contact.  So are you suggesting that is secondary right now?  Is it more important, right now, that she have her space in the bedroom for the next handful of days and then begin cracking the bedroom door so she can physically socialize at her will?

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Yes that is what I am saying.  Let her move at her own pace since she is skittish. 

She will find her way with the animals.  They always do.  I feel the human bond is your priority and that is hard to establish in a closed crate. 

I would not crack the door until you are comfortable that she is healed. 

Thanks so much for the help and suggestions.  The deed is done, but it wasn't pretty!  We have definitely erased any progress that was made w/ her.

The transfer from crate to carrier to spare bedroom was not an immediate success.  She did not want to leave the crate to get into the carrier.  In our various attempts she managed to escape the crate and was loose in the house.  She hid under the couch all day.  Later in the evening our orange tabby flushed her out and chased her into our laundry room.  That room has a door on it and a kitty hole at the base.  So I entered the laundry room and closed the door behind me.  My husband put the carrier on the other side of the kitty hole.  She ran as I approached her - ran right into the carrier.

We got her all set up in her room w/ everything she needs.  She wouldn't leave the carrier once we opened the hatch.  We left and let her be for 4-5 hours.  I checked her before going to bed.  Her food was gone and she had found her safe spot under the futon.  This morning she was still in her safe spot but when I cleaned her litter she had done her business.   I put some breakfast down for her, right near her hiding spot, when I was in there to tend to her litter.  I will give her all day by herself.  I will start spending more time w/ her this evening or the next day.

I want you to read some posts of mine entitled about a cat named Jimmy.  He was an adult feral that I adopted.  We still have him.  I have a couple of baby chores to do at home and then I'll find the links.  You might find something helpful in reading about him.  I have several threads about him, but I will try to find them from beginning to end for you.  I think you will like them and you might be going through something similar except with a younger kitty.  

I was a housewife when I got Jimmy so I spent a lot of time in his presence with no response for quite some time.  He was so very afraid.  It took years for him to reach the point where he is now, which is an in/out cat who lets me pick him up to move him places now.  Off of tables, into a crate, etc....  He still does not like to be held, but he is all that he can be with people.  He trusts me and that is enough for me.  You just never know how far the kitty will go.  It is a journey that is very worthwhile though.  I will help you and encourage you any way that I possibly can.

Patience on your part, with an eye on the future is what it's about.  When you gain this kitty's trust, it is sooooooo worth it. 

I'll find those links in a bit.

Jenn
 

These are jimmy's links in the order in which they occurred.

From his adoption until now.  He was an adult feral.

He was captured in cincinatti, ohio by a group and they had him for a year before I adopted him.  I am not exactly sure of his age, but I think he was close to 2 years old when I adopted him. 

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/79746/eilcons-jimmy-has-a-home

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/80702/jimmy-is-home

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/86330/star-and-jimmy-update

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/228999/for-elly-just-jimmy

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/90779/jimmy-is-having-a-breakthrough

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/237154/jimmy-update

He went from this, where he was absolutely terrified of any human contact.  His whole existence was governed by fear.  We had not had him too long here.  He probably thought his little life was over, but it was just beginning -- like your kitty.


And now, he is a cat who trusts his caregiver, knowing he is okay now, with an option of being an indoor/out kitty. 


It took years, and I do mean years, but you can do it...  I hope something in these threads helps you.  He will probably never like being snuggled, but he is a changed cat.  Once a cat, like your little baby trusts you, your life will never be the same.  It is the one of the most single rewarding things you will ever do.  YOU are taming a wild animal and trying to gain their trust.  Have no expectations and then everything is special.

Patience, patience and then more patience is the entire key.

jenn

And also remember, you will have setbacks...  But they are not forever.  Don't beat yourself up over a setback.  The next baby-step you make will be that much sweeter.  The setbacks eventually will become fewer and fewer and they will last shorter and shorter periods of time.   The kitty will start remembering the good and will start forgetting the fear. 

Be consistent and be patient and move slow around your baby.  Reading is a good activity around a cat that you want to get to know you and that is afraid.  You are quiet and your eyes are focused on your book.  This gives the cat the opportunity to come forward or sneak forward if they wish.  Eye contact is scary to a feral/semi-feral cat.  It is a challenge to the animal.  Keep your eyes averted.  It will help believe me.

I read something on this forum and it sounds crazy but it actually works.

Cats have a language using their eyes for dominance and submission.  Sit in the floor facing your cat with your eyes (and head) downcast.  Slowly bring your eyes up (not your head) and slowly blink at your cat and then lower your eyes again.  Your cat sees this as you being submissive to him/her and therefore he/she feels a little more safe.   I did this repeatedly with Jimmy.  One day he blinked back at me in response.   It helps...

There is a post about this.  I think it was written by Hissy, but I 'm not sure.

Thanks so much for all of your help and advice, jcribbs!  I have started to read through the threads you posted but I have not read them thoroughly yet.  I appreciate the leg work.

We have made some gains!

Spay surgery was 7 days ago.  Days 4, 5, and 6 were rough on her.  I think she was still feeling icky from the surgery as she was eating so very little.  She wanted to eat - she would sniff what you would give her - but would never actually eat.  Two mornings I was greeted w/ several small bile piles.  Poor lady.  Today, though, she has been mowin' down!  She's definitely feeling better.

In brief, w/ just us humans in the room she stays in her safe spot, but she purrs.  When we leave she meows a little bit.  I think she likes our company, even if she's not open to contact yet.

We have let our cats and dog into her room, too.  The older orange tabby has shown no interest in entering the room.  Our younger orange tabby will go into the room, however.  His presence immediately changes this little girl.  Her personality electrifies as she leaves her safe spot and rubs up all over him.  As she has started to feel better they've been frisky and playful.  Also, as she is feeling better she is spending a bit more time away from her safe spot, whether nor not our orange tabby is in the room w/ her.

When holding out my finger she will again sniff it and do a singular nose bump.  So I'd say we are back to where we were 5 days ago, and maybe a touch further.

Awesome.....!!  Just keep it up.  It sounds like you are making major progress with her!  Please keep updating...
 

She reminds me of Tiny! I had originally thought Tiny was feral because he was so scared at first, but like your little girl I think he must have been dumped as a kitten and had some experience with humans. It took him a while, but he trusts me now--I can play with him, clip his claws, even pick him up, though he doesn't like it and will complain about it. Tiny just needed some time to figure me out, that was all.

Callista said:

She reminds me of Tiny! I had originally thought Tiny was feral because he was so scared at first, but like your little girl I think he must have been dumped as a kitten and had some experience with humans. It took him a while, but he trusts me now--I can play with him, clip his claws, even pick him up, though he doesn't like it and will complain about it. Tiny just needed some time to figure me out, that was all.

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Here is a video I took Friday night.  This is the stray, we call her Playdoh, playing w/ our young orange tabby, Milton.



This morning, Sunday, was another huge breakthrough.  Milton is a lap cat to the 9s!  So I sat down on the futon in Playdoh's room and Milton settled in on my lap.  I petted on him and he purred away.  Playdoh came over very interested.  Before long I was petting her ... legitimately petting her.  She would arch her back up into my hand as though to say "That feels good, push a little harder!"  I was able to repeatedly pet her off and on for about 20 minutes.  She even snuzzled in next to Milton and I, cradled b/t my hip and arm.  Milton really is the key for getting her to come around so quickly.  The next step will be to see if I can pet her w/o Milton's presence.

Do you think she can begin exploring the rest of the house now?  She is 11 days out from her spay surgery.  Her vitals all seem well and she is often right at the door when I enter her room.

She looks really confident! I think she's ready, personally. But you know her best.

spotty4 said:

Do you think she can begin exploring the rest of the house now?  She is 11 days out from her spay surgery.  Her vitals all seem well and she is often right at the door when I enter her room.

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   Okay, they are just too adorable for words.....What a cute video.  And yeah, she is ready!! 

You have done a great job with her!

jcribbs said:

   Okay, they are just too adorable for words.....What a cute video.  And yeah, she is ready!! 

You have done a great job with her!

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TOTALLY adorable. :rub: :heart3: You HAVE done wonderful and I also would go ahead with that next step.