Struvite crystals and food

Hi everyone,

I'm totally new here - I was doing some internet research for my cat and most of my hits came from these forums, so I hope you might have some sage advice for me.

We have two one-year-old male cats, and they are brothers. One of my guys had struvite crystals. (Cat pee everywhere! Those were fun times.) We got a water fountain, got more diligent about cleaning the litter box, and put him on antibiotics for a while, which seemed to clear it up. But then the crystals came back.

The vet suggested putting him on a prescription diet for a month to see if that helps clear things up. He's been on Royal Canin SO for almost a month now, and we can tell he's back to his old self. Clumps are also bigger in the litterbox. I've also started mixing in some water to both their wet food (I call it "cat porridge"), but I like to give them at least a little dry every day because they love it and because we both work.

I would like to get them both on a good diet that is not going to cost me a fortune, not too much work (no raw), and may do a better job of keeping the crystals away. I figure since one had an issue, the other might be predisposed. We just transitioned from kitten to cat food, and they've been on Authority wet and Blue Buffalo dry - Kitten before, now Multicat for the one while the other is on SO. I thought I had done a good job of choosing cat food, but he is too young to have these issues!

Any thoughts?

Truly, your best bet would really be staying one 100% wet.... Crystals are not only no fun, but they are dangerous.... They can cause blockage.... and that can be a disaster.... Since this is a recurrent problem, I would really really advise you to stay on canned only.
It is alright to work and feed canned - I do and feed raw - my cats eat 3 meals, around my work schedule:
In the morning, before work, early evening after work, and late night before bed.
You can even feed 2 meals a day - but truly.... Dry food would be very risky, at the very least counter-productive.

I am going to suggest the same. Keep your male kitties on 100% wet/canned food. You can check out this food from Fresh Pet http://freshpet.com/product/vitalcompletemealscat/. It is a "wet" food made in little balls - kibble size - that you could even leave out if you work during the day. Most kitties love this stuff. You must keep it refrigerated and use the bag within 7 days after opening. Sold at Petco. My daughter works at Petco and says the product is becoming very, very popular. Very easy to feed and convenient. Good luck with your kitties.

I hear you guys on the wet food. It's just hard - they like their wet food, but they LOVE their dry. They don't get much - 1/4 cup a day each. The "kibbles" are intriguing, but I've heard that I should avoid fish. Does the benefit of the moisture outweigh the drawback of the fish? Do you know of any non-prescription foods that are decent quality made for urinary health?

As I'm typing this, I'm watching my cats pounce the bugs that have gotten inside. I think someone could really do well with a bug-flavored food. :-)

Ah well, with the bugs it's not the flavor, but the chase :lol3:

I agree with the others. All wet, all the time. And, yes, avoid fish.

Just because they like kibble doesn't mean they should have it. You wouldn't give a diabetic child candy, just because you know the child likes it, because you know the candy would make the diabetic child sick. Same principle. Stop all the kibble and in time they won't even miss it.

Welcome to TCS! You are to be commended and congratulated on wanting to feed your two precious boys on the best you can.



PS in addition to canned diet, and clean litter boxes, make sure the boys get plenty of exercise every day. Exercise is very important in feline health in general, and especially so for cats prone to urinary tract disorders.

gussy14 said:

I hear you guys on the wet food. It's just hard - they like their wet food, but they LOVE their dry. They don't get much - 1/4 cup a day each. The "kibbles" are intriguing, but I've heard that I should avoid fish. Does the benefit of the moisture outweigh the drawback of the fish? Do you know of any non-prescription foods that are decent quality made for urinary health?

As I'm typing this, I'm watching my cats pounce the bugs that have gotten inside. I think someone could really do well with a bug-flavored food. :-)

Click to expand...

They LOVE their dry because it is coated with fat and animal digest. In human terms, it is like offering a child a hot dog or a burger next to a plate of salad/veggies side-by-side. Guess which one that child will pick?
There is nothing good on kibbles for your kitty. And for a cat with crystals.... It is very likely dangerous.
The single most important thing you can do to prevent crystal recurrence, is to provide plenty of moisture and also keep the pH in check.
Kibbles are not only low in moisture, it is dehydrating. Meat in the canned diet naturally keeps a lower pH. On the other hand, carbs do the reverse - kibbles are usually higher in carbs.
I hope you reconsider your choice in food.... because crystals can kill... specially male cats.
For your boy

Welcome to TCS, Gussy14!

Another vote for an all wet diet - either canned or raw - with a minimal carb content (less than 10% if you can get it).

Struvite crystals are naturally-occuring in feline urine, however, they become a problem when urine PH becomes too alkaline, which promotes / accelerates the formation of those crystals, and when the urine becomes too concentrated and the crystals begin to clump together. Kibble is both high-carb, which causes the cat's urine PH to become more alkaline, and dehydrating, which causes urine concentration. As you can see, it's just not a good thing to be feeding a kitty, especially when that cat has already encountered urinary tract issues.

I also second the recommendation to play with your kitties every day. The cats will benefit for having an outlet for their hunting energy, and both the exercise and the routine will be help keep their confidence levels high and their stress levels low. If you can, dusk and dawn are the best times to play, as those are the cat's natural periods of high energy.

As for which wet foods to buy, that really depends upon several parameters, but there are links to four "recommendation" lists halfway down this page that will give you a great foundation for picking out a few: Canned Foods. Definitely try for as many as you can get your hands on, as rotating the foods will keep them from becoming fixated on any one product (a problem if they change or stop producing it) and protect them from potential quality control issues by diluting their impact. Since cats can develop hypersensitivity when continually exposed to the same proteins or ingredients for extended periods, it will also help prevent food intolerance issues (and the associated diarrhea and vomiting).

Good luck, Gussy!

AC
 

I think this explanation will help you understand the importance of wet food vs dry food for a kitty with crystal problems: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth

And for transitioning your kibble addict to canned, this thread will be helpful: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/249166/i-give-up

Okay okay, I get it! Wet food only! :-)

Does anyone have any specific brands and/or varieties that they know of that are particularly good for urinary health? pH balanced or whatever it is they need? All I know is to avoid fish flavors, and I don't want to keep him/them on a prescription diet if I don't have to. I'd like a little extra insurance beyond what a wet-food only diet would bring.

I've alerted someone who's done a lot of work on that. She's not necessarily on the site everyday, but hopefully she'll be along at some point.

I do know you want a high protein, low carbohydrte diet. I find it easiest to look at this on a dry matter basis. The prescription foods target a neutral urine pH; they also have a lower amount of phosphorus in them than some canned foods (phosphorus and magnesium can contribute to the formation of stones, though it requires urine pH to be too alkaline in order for struvite crystals to form). Grains and other forms of carbohydrates increase urine pH; meat is naturally acidifying. And the natural diet of a cat is small mammals, so a cat in the wild, hunting, will eat a high protein, low carb diet naturally, so it makes sense that this is a diet that is best for them anyway.

Dr. Pierson has created a table listing many canned foods. In the DMB column, look for ones that are high protein, low carb, and you can check the amount of phosphorus, because she's included that too. http://www.catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods There's a link right at the top of the piece where you can just "skip right to the food list." Hope this helps!

gussy14 said:

Okay okay, I get it! Wet food only! :-)

Does anyone have any specific brands and/or varieties that they know of that are particularly good for urinary health? pH balanced or whatever it is they need? All I know is to avoid fish flavors, and I don't want to keep him/them on a prescription diet if I don't have to. I'd like a little extra insurance beyond what a wet-food only diet would bring.

Click to expand...

I am just reading your post and I will tell you my experience.  I have had two cats with struvite crystals.  Both were male cats.  When they were diagnosed, they were both put on prescription kibble from the vet's office. I fed it to them with a little water in the bowl, not much.  One cat had never been blocked because we managed to catch his problem in time.  The other cat had been totally blocked two times.  Speedboat lived to age 14 and had no more problems with crystals.  Muffin is now 14.  He has never been blocked again.  Although he has some health issues, hyperthyroid and recovering from liver cancer surgery, his kidneys work find and his numbers are good.  He ate the kibble only until May when he had surgery and he had some appetite issues.  The vet then wanted to put him on wet food.  We tried three different kinds from the vet's office before we found Purina UR, which he is now eating.  Even though the vet wanted to switch him entirely, he still from time to time holds out and wants the kibble.  And you know what, he gets it.  At this time of his life and all he has been through I am just happy he is eating.  I know what I am telling you goes contrary to other advice you have been given here.  But the same thing doesn't work for every cat.  They never ate anything else, no other food, no table scraps, just the kibble for years.  I can't say it has contributed to them having crystals as they both maintained good kidney function.  I hope you find a solution for your cat that will keep him going many years.

I took my Mazy cat off of the c/d kibble in January of this year after 6 1/2 years of it. I had tried other times to get her back on a regular canned food but her pH would climb and the crystals would come back.

This time I was determined as the c/d was just ruining her. Her coat was dull, she had no energy, hardly every played and she was regurgitating daily.

She wouldn't eat the canned c/d, and I didn't like the ingredients of the other brands of canned much, so I never tried them.

I did a lot of research on brands plus it was difficult to find a food she would eat that she could eat. What I mean is, there were a lot of foods she didn't seem to like after once or twice, plus she developed all these sensitivities, which brought more regurgitation.

I finally found a food that she seemed to like, that didn't make her puke, that had a phosphorous/magnesium level almost on a par with the Hill's c/d, By Nature Organics.

One of the things she has an intolerance to is carrageenan. There is some controversy over whether By Nature Organics contains this harmful additive. I have written to By Nature many times and been reassured over and over again that the web site ingredients list is incorrect, that the By Nature Organics does NOT contain carrageenan. It is NOT listed on the label, and does not make Mazy sick, so I have made the choice to believe that, even though it seems to me it would be a simple matter to fix the website. :lol3:

The one thing I did different this time, as opposed to other times I've tried to switch Mazy to a commercial canned was to stop adding water to her food. Water is good for cats, but I have a very high mineral content well water, and though my vet feels this is not a problem, I disagree with her now. I no longer add my well water to Mazy's food.

However I believe a cat needs more than just one food day in and day out and after a few months of Mazy on the By Nature Turkey &Chicken, I tried adding some other foods. Most were unsuccessful, she would promptly regurgitate them.

So I've turned to raw feeding now. Mazy is getting 1 ounce of Rad Cat raw a day, in addition to her canned food. It's been 10+ months now since I took her off the c/d and she has had no problems.

It is scarier with male cats though, because of the risk of blockage. For a male cat I recommend after three months on a canned diet, having his urine checked (have it done by cystocentesis, straight from the bladder, to get the cleanest sample. If his pH is still too alkaline an acidifier may be necessary, but that can backfire too, since a urine that is too acidic will be prone to oxalate stones.

Another vote for an all wet diet here. (All reasons why have already been posted above, I just wanted to get my vote in ).

Just wanted to give everyone an update ....

Tomorrow is their last day of dry food. Savor it while it lasts, boys! :-)

Leftover Royal Canin SO is going to the local shelter where I volunteer, leftover Blue Buffalo to a fellow cat lady who still feeds her cats dry. I'm keeping the dry in the closet for a few days just in case they're finicky, but I don't expect that. They already love wet food.

Went to the local non-big-box store that sells quality food, and I bought about $70 worth of a variety of canned food, which will last about a month. Got some Evo, Wellness, Newman's Own, and Pet Guard. We'll see what they like. I'll still get them Authority (Petsmart store brand) to balance out the budget and since they already like it. Once I narrow down what others they like, I can buy by the case and get a discount. I expect that we'll be able to feed them on about $2 a day, which seems reasonable to me.

This link was particularly useful in narrowing down what I wanted to buy: http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf

I'm trying to stay lower in phosphorus since that can mess with pH and it's one of the minerals in struvite crystals.

We're going to the vet on Thursday just to make sure the prescription diet got rid of all the crystals, and I'll plan on a follow-up appointment in 3 months or so just to make sure my boy is still peeing like a champ.

Who knew pet food was so darn complicated? Thanks for all the advice. Gus also thanks you, as does his favorite spot to pee when he has crystals - our bed!

Congrats!   I know having a pee-free bed is a pretty big deal!   Let us know what the doc says after your check-up.

AC

I-have-a-crystal-kitty.He-was-put-on-wet-only.Tried-to-save-$,gave-him-wet-in-the-morn,dry-at-night,guess-what,back-in-he-went.My-vet-said-you-HAVE-to-give-him-wet-only,mixed-with-water,so-its-real-soupy.Its-imperative-he-be-kept-flushed-out.Been-5-yrs-no-crystals.

The-biggest-cause-of-crystals,one-of-many-but-the-biggest-one,is-grains.

You-have-to-feed-a-grain-free-food.I-feed-Blue-Wilderness-chicken.Not-all-Blue-Buffalo-is-grain-free,Longevity-and-Blue-Spa-have-grains-in-them.You-have-to-read-the-lable,lol.

Catinfo.org_is-a-good-site-to-read.

Just got Gus back from the vet. The vet said there was a "whole bunch of nothing" in his urine. I even overheard the vet tech saying that she saw "not one" struvite crystal! Yipee!

The prescription diet certainly had its place, as Gus' personality has changed back to what it was a couple of months ago - we attributed his less affectionate demeanor as part of growing up, but now he's a champ cuddler again. He is also playing fetch again (yes, he is a cat). He was obviously feeling crummy well before he started peeing on our bed. Poor baby!

My vet thought an all-wet diet was a good idea, though he wasn't effusive about it. He didn't think that I needed to come back in a few months to retest the urine, but he thought it was fine if I did that. (I'm going to.)

He's lost a little weight - the vet wasn't overly concerned, but I have a Wii Fit and am going to keep track of it. They both are a healthy weight for their frames but do have little pooches. I guess I just have to be careful while they're converting to the all-wet diet? I was figuring I would feed them about 200 calories a day - they're indoor and neutered.

Thank you again, everyone, for all your guidance!

Spencer's happy that his brother is feeling better. Here are a couple pics of them. 

This is so you can see what they look like (Gus on the left, Spencer on the right):


And their personalities (Gus left, trying to nap, Spencer right):

Just when I thought I was done needing advice! Gus (crystal boy) just hurled up what was probably his whole breakfast. On my work laptop case (thanks, buddy). And it was the good stuff, too! Merrick's BG 96% Chicken. He did fine on it yesterday - had it morning and night and no puking. Yesterday was his first time having it.

He has, on occasion, puked in the past - maybe 3 times in the past year. Was this a fluke? Or should I not give this to them again in the future?

The regurgitation was probably just a case of eating too much too quickly. I recommend feeding smaller portions for awhile.

How much do they weigh? 200 calories is a lot of calories for most cats. My two adult cats who have average activity and weigh 9 pounds 8 ounces (6-7 years old) and 10 pounds 4 ounces (8+ years old) eat less than 150 calories a day. If you are feeding Before Grain, the 5.5 ounce cans, one can should be sufficient for each cat per day, split between three meals. Because of the regurgitation, you might want to give two smaller servings at each meal.

One of our cats has this too. We feed him (usually known as her but I am disclosing the true gender to avoid confusion) more wet food ie tins of meat now and occasionally feed royal canin meat or biscuits but only about every week. Have you tried feeding the royal canin biscuits?