Affectionate but biting/scratching stray help

yodman

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Hi all

I'm not sure how to handle this stray gentleman I'm feeding. We're already taking care of a now ex stray (Missy) and her three kittens (Fifi, Moe and Dexter) since a few months and are working on socialising the suspected father. We're not allowed to have cats in the house according to our contract so we got a 6'x8' shed with food bowls and litter tray and blankets/cushions and whatnot for our gang and we let them in the house when we're at home. 

Now this stray guy (we call him the Boss) is very friendly, he comes and eats every day and is never far away. He tends to follow me like a shadow whenever I'm outside and likes his head and shoulders stroked but he is quite jumpy, if he doesn't like the look of my shoe or something he'll grab me and bite, same if I move too quickly, touch him in the wrong place etc etc. There's also a bit of mutual nervousness between him and the other cats, they'll give each other a bit of a smack sometimes and they have a hard time relaxing around each other, though sometimes they're fine. They used to be much worse but it's still not ideal...

When I took him to the vet to have him neutered and checked over he charmed the pants off everyone, no aggression at all so I really think there's potential for everyone to get along a lot better but I'm a bit lost. I'm sorry this has been a bit rambly but I suppose the most pressing concerns are how can I 1. Get the Boss not to attack me, and 2. Get the Boss and Missy not to attack each other?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Johannes
 

StefanZ

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So  he is neutered now? How long ago?

My  guess is it will  be  better when all  hormones  are out from him.  Surely so for other  cats,  but probably  also for  you.

It  is not  uncommon  semiferale toms are  friendly to humans,  but   so so - or  even  hostile - to other cats.   Going better after  neutering.

Tx   a  lot  for  caring  and helping them!

Welcome to our  Forums!

Good luck!
 
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yodman

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He's neutered, yes, since just over three weeks, I thought the hormones would be out of him by now... So how should I behave towards him, how do I let him know it's not ok to bite without freking him out or making him feel unsafe? Should I spend more time with him to make him more comfortable or should I give him space? Should I 'punish' him in some way or would that just be counterproductive? He is also starting to come into the house and it's a bit tricky to get him out (he sprays...) because we cant really touch him in that way without him being aggressive...
 
 
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yodman

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I've changed my avatar to the Boss (left) and Missy (right) if anyone's interested...
 

StefanZ

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Hormone   changes after  neutering can  take time. You can sometimes  see a  positive change literally  within  days. But  several weeks, is more  common. Even  several months  maybe.   So I  think  it WILL be better yet with  time.

You can always  do some hissing. Like cats themselves do.  They  also  can  swap each  other with  a paw...  Soft  paw  among essentially  friends, clawed more hostile...

Although  we dont recommend  "swapping with paw".  :)

But some hissing and the like,  sure...  He wont get sour, as  long you  dont overdo it.
 
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yodman

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Is there such a thing as 'alpha' among cats? They're not exactly pack animals so it doesn't quite make sense but is he trying to establish himself as 'top cat'? Should I try to assume that role? Or should I just chill out and love him until he softens more and more too? Is he afraid that we might turn around and treat him badly because he's been treated badly before? I get a feeling the cats are more nervous around each other when there's a human around, are they competing for our attention or their food supply or something? I'd really like to understand their behaviour and how they relate to each other and us...

Btw, why don't you recommend the swapping with paw thing? If I need a clearer signal than hissing a little bump might be a good thing to have in my arsenal...
 
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feralvr

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Is there such a thing as 'alpha' among cats? They're not exactly pack animals so it doesn't quite make sense but is he trying to establish himself as 'top cat'? Should I try to assume that role? Or should I just chill out and love him until he softens more and more too? Is he afraid that we might turn around and treat him badly because he's been treated badly before? I get a feeling the cats are more nervous around each other when there's a human around, are they competing for our attention or their food supply or something? I'd really like to understand their behaviour and how they relate to each other and us...

Btw, why don't you recommend the swapping with paw thing? If I need a clearer signal than hissing a little bump might be a good thing to have in my arsenal...
Very cute kitties you have there!! Boss very well could be a "dominant" cat. :nod: Can I ask how old he is? estimated? Because sometimes the "tom cat" behavior will linger even after the hormones have dissipated. Meaning, sometimes, the behavior is already learned. Best thing to do is to distract him from his aggressive behaviors. Hissing and a very loud growl, and screech really does work and also having a toy to use as a distraction to divert his attention elsewhere. It is possible that he has been abused in the past by humans so he is protecting himself. Really, this will just take some time for him to learn to trust you. Swatting at him or punishing him in anyway will not make him stop, it will just fuel his behavior. Please feel free to start a thread in the behavior forum, because in that forum you will have many people responding to you that might have some true experience with this type of behavior and how to handle it. OR we could ask to have ths thread moved for you. It is totally up to you, though. I do hope that he will settle in for you. :vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes:
 
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yodman

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Moving it to the behaviour forum seems like a good idea...

Being nice to him and making him comfortable has been my default position since my limited understanding of cat psychology has led me to believe that 'undesirable' behaviour is the result of the cat being uncomfortable, and that any kind of punishment will just make the cat more uncomfortable and will, if anything, lead to more of the same behaviour. The aggression has my housemates a bit concerned (I think I'm more willing than them to do it on the cat's terms) and I think they have some common sense views about how to deal with him that may not be very accurate or helpful... In any case if I can set some boundaries while making him more comfortable that would be great from a house politics point of view...
 

StefanZ

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IF you want to try the swatting cats themselves do  on  pals, I imagine quickly hitting with your  forefinger,  not too hard, somewhere you cant do any harm, should do.  One or two.

Most people feels it is unpleasant we being much  bigger and stronger,  use  physical punishments  on our  little  brethren.

But if  desperate enough it  may be tried.Good to know,  some of us  think.   :)

We had  a  loong  tread  about this  once.  :)
 

speakhandsforme

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Hi and welcome to TCS!! :wavey:

First of all: The hormones can still take another few weeks to work out of his system after his neuter, so he could still be having a little tomcat aggressiveness.

Second: The broken teeth will absolutely be causing him pain, which would make him lash out. He can still eat kibble because cats don't chew their food like we do; in the wild they bite off strips of meat and swallow it whole. With kibble, they just use their front teeth to sort of toss it into their mouth, crunch it up a tiny bit with their back teeth, and swallow it mostly intact. They don't have molars for chewing and grinding like we do. If you get those taken care of, it'll probably help him ease up quite a bit.

Good luck and keep us updated!! :vibes: :bigthumb:
 
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yodman

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Thanks for your response, I really must get him in to have those teeth removed then, poor sweetie... It sounds like this tom aggression is quite normal, what's the likelihood of it going away by itself when the hormones are properly out of him? I must say he's come a long way, he's gone from running as soon as he saw us to rubbing against my leg every time I go into the garden...
 

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You have already achieved a great deal with him and he obviously has grown to trust you. That said, he has been on his own a long time, and it will take time, plus the help of the neutering, to get him completely relaxed. One of mine, who arrived at my house as a stray, took 6 months to let me touch her, a year before I could pick her up, but now she is the greatest affectionate lapcat you could imagine.

I will move htis thread to Strays and Ferals as I think you might get more relevant answers there.
 

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Does he has  problems  with sore teeth?  Yes,,  it  could  partly explain.   Cats with ache, or similiar,  dont  have  the  same patience as  others.   It  is  especielly  against  other  cats.   They  understand humans  is  a morre  or less different league.

But   you   ARE  going forward.  Time is  your   ally.
 
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yodman

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Hi, some info seems to have been lost when my two threads were merged, so to clarify, he has two broken teeth (canines I think) that the vet charity I took him to didn't have time to sort out when I had him neutered.
 

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Hi, some info seems to have been lost when my two threads were merged, so to clarify, he has two broken teeth (canines I think) that the vet charity I took him to didn't have time to sort out when I had him neutered.
This might explain his problem behavior :nod: The broken teeth could be causing him some pain. Taking Boss to the vet would give you your answer. :vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes:
 
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yodman

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Hi all, I feel like he's getting worse rather than better, more aggressive... I haven't been hissing at him at all because I just wanted to make him comfortable, I wonder if I've done the wrong thing letting him get away with it, should I show him when I disapprove of his behaviour? He really follows me like a shadow and when I'm not with him he spends a lot of time looking in through our back door and/meowing and pawing at the glass to get in, even in the rain. I've tried to get him into the cat shed so he won't get wet at least and when I go in he lies down beside me or in a cardboard box that we have there and even purrs sometimes when I stroke his head, but if I go in the shed with him he seems to get really pissed off with me when I leave, he grabs and bites and tries to stop me from going back in the house. He even jumped up and grabbed my knee tonight. It gets a bit scary when it's dark and you can't really see where he is, and I'm the Boss' advocate in the house!

He's booked in to have his broken teeth removed but it's not until the 19th, what can I do? We can't go into our garden now without fear of being attacked...

Help...
 
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yodman

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Hi all

I'm getting desperate about the Boss, if I don't get some new information on what I can do I'm going to have to hand him in to our local cat rescue. The big problem isn't even the aggression, it's that he'll sit for hours at the door meowing to get in, he purrs and loves it when I go out to him but most of the time he seems so unhappy, I can't let him in, how can I possibly make him less desperate to come inside? He seems so frustrated, I really think it would be better if he could find a home where he could be inside and maybe be the only cat, but an aggressive spraying black male cat doesn't seem very adoptable... What can I do?
 

speakhandsforme

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Hmm, he does still spray after the neuter? Do you know for sure, or did you only see it while he was intact? Most of the time the spraying will stop after neutering.


My cat Kramer is the same way, with unpredictable biting. I chalk it up to him not having grown up around other cats, so he never got the "cat manners" training most kittens will get from their mother and siblings. So his first reaction to things that upset, annoy or stress him is to bite. Not necessarily very hard, but a biting cat is not good to have around strangers! Anyway, maybe the Boss is the same way, since you know he's a stray... maybe he just never learned cat manners.

I'm not sure what that means for his adoptability, though. It's clear he wants to return to the inside life he once had. I think your best bet would be to call a shelter after his dental and see what they can do.
 
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yodman

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He does still spray, unfortunately, yes.

I called the local cat shelter and they're full, he could only be put on a waiting list. Is there anything I can do to make him less desperate to come inside?
 
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