Can't get rid of parasites! Giardia

Thanks, Catwoman.

I am planning to call the vet tomorrow- I want to get her on something else right away before it comes back full force. She has gained weight and was acting happier for a few days, but things are going downhill again. I have also been extremely careful disinfecting but I can't always be there when she goes...she's a fastidious cleaner, so I suspect she's reinfected herself. I wish I knew what her history is, or how long she's had the infection. She's six years old and the shelter told me nothing about her. They also refuse to answer my emails and phone calls, so I think she's been adopted and returned a few times. I'm still hopeful this can be cured.

It will be cured. Just need a diff medication for it is all.

I wonder why the vet only repeated the metronidazole treatment without adding fenbendazole. Sometimes it makes me think it's a way to get more money out of people? I'd hate think this but in cases like this, why wouldn't he have, you know?

This is usually how they will handle the case if the metro treatment fails.

Then there is the ronidazole, which is what I use in rescue.

There are strains of giardia resistant to metronadizole (flagyl). This is becoming more and more common. Many vets will use panacur (fenbendazole) as the first line of treatment now. As Catwoman707 says, ronidizole also treats giardia. It is also the only thing that would potentially treat T. foetus, a common co-infection and one difficult to "find" even via PCR.

In the meantime, you can purchase plant-based digestive enzymes, and follow these instructions: http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/giardia-natural-treatment-protocol/

Thank you so much everyone! I really appreciate it. I'll talk to my vet tomorrow and see what he says about trying a different med. The second course of Flagyl definitely helped, but now we're almost back to where we started. LDG, thanks for the info on enzymes. She is already on probiotics and I put a bit of coconut oil in her food too...hope it helps some. I'll post back with results. Thank you again for all the suggestions!

caroline316 said:

 
Thank you so much everyone! I really appreciate it. I'll talk to my vet tomorrow and see what he says about trying a different med. The second course of Flagyl definitely helped, but now we're almost back to where we started. LDG, thanks for the info on enzymes. She is already on probiotics and I put a bit of coconut oil in her food too...hope it helps some. I'll post back with results. Thank you again for all the suggestions!

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One more thing for the vet to consider is perhaps dosing for an extended time period than prior, which might be helpful.

You might want to be politely pushy, especially if he is an older vet, sometimes the young vets are more aware of recent, up to date tested/studied BETTER ways of treatment, when the old way of treating wasn't 100%.

Good luck!

I am having the exact same thing with my 4 1/2 month kitten who I took home from a shelter in February. She just finished meds from round 2 of giarda and it seems my vet has already given up on her and dont want to do a 3rd round of meds like they suggested before. I cannot continue caring for her like this financially nor physically as it now affects my work. Please I am desperate for suggestions. She has had 2 treatments of panacur and metronidazole. I have bleached my entire apartment. Anything that couldn't be bleached was steam cleaned at 345 degrees. If my vet won't do a 3rd round of meds and she gets it back again I'm afraid I will need to bring her back to the shelter. I would feel awful to do this as this is where she got it from in the first place. In addition I have really bonded with her but for the sake of my 9 yr old cat who is dealing with feline idiopathic cystitis, I cannot put anyone through this anymore.

fefuerzaamor said:

I am having the exact same thing with my 4 1/2 month kitten who I took home from a shelter in February. She just finished meds from round 2 of giarda and it seems my vet has already given up on her and dont want to do a 3rd round of meds like they suggested before. I cannot continue caring for her like this financially nor physically as it now affects my work. Please I am desperate for suggestions. She has had 2 treatments of panacur and metronidazole. I have bleached my entire apartment. Anything that couldn't be bleached was steam cleaned at 345 degrees. If my vet won't do a 3rd round of meds and she gets it back again I'm afraid I will need to bring her back to the shelter. I would feel awful to do this as this is where she got it from in the first place. In addition I have really bonded with her but for the sake of my 9 yr old cat who is dealing with feline idiopathic cystitis, I cannot put anyone through this anymore.

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As I advised prior for this thread, request Ronidazole.

If vet won't give it, find a vet who will.

This is fairly common when treated with metronidazole.

I'm not certain I would be comfortable using that medicine.  I was just reading up about it.  I spoke to my vet and he said he will put her on 2 more weeks of metronidazole but not panacur.  Has anyone tried just metronidazole before for a round of treatment? 

fefuerzaamor said:

 
I'm not certain I would be comfortable using that medicine.  I was just reading up about it.  I spoke to my vet and he said he will put her on 2 more weeks of metronidazole but not panacur.  Has anyone tried just metronidazole before for a round of treatment? 

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Only on myself.

fefuerzaamor said:

 
I'm not certain I would be comfortable using that medicine.  I was just reading up about it.  I spoke to my vet and he said he will put her on 2 more weeks of metronidazole but not panacur.  Has anyone tried just metronidazole before for a round of treatment? 

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It's fairly common for metronidazole to not cure ghiardia when given alone.

Sometimes it will, but sometimes it won't.

Probably just depends on how advanced it is/not.

That's what I am afraid of but my vet won't put her on anything else.

caroline316 said:

Thank you so much everyone! I really appreciate it. I'll talk to my vet tomorrow and see what he says about trying a different med. The second course of Flagyl definitely helped, but now we're almost back to where we started. LDG, thanks for the info on enzymes. She is already on probiotics and I put a bit of coconut oil in her food too...hope it helps some. I'll post back with results. Thank you again for all the suggestions!

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The article is not about adding probiotics, and coconut oil is (maybe) great for your cat, but the point of the article was a specific method of using digestive enzymes in a not-typical fashion to TREAT protozoa infections. The information is from a vet, by a vet, used by the vet successfully.

fefuerzaamor said:

I'm not certain I would be comfortable using that medicine.  I was just reading up about it.  I spoke to my vet and he said he will put her on 2 more weeks of metronidazole but not panacur.  Has anyone tried just metronidazole before for a round of treatment? 

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Please see a non-antibiotic option, I posted the link earlier in this thread. It is something that can be used IN CONJUNCTION with whatever you are already doing IF you so desire, yet may solve the problem without the additional toxins.

Here, again, is the link. It is easy and safe, so there would surely be no harm in trying it.

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/giardia-natural-treatment-protocol/

Hi all,

We went back to the vet yesterday, and when I asked about Panacur, he said he'd never heard of it being used for giardia....he left the room (I think to google it), then returned suggesting albendazole since it is related to Panacur but easier to administer. I am disheartened as I feel like I cannot trust he knows what the current methods are for treating this in cats. I get that it is difficult to pinpoint and cure, but if this doesn't work, I plan to try something more alternative. I can't keep pumping drugs into her; she's had a rough time and already isn't feeling well on these new meds.

The course is 7 days, then a break, and then another 7 days. Catwoman, do you have thoughts on this? I am very carefully disinfecting her crate, bowls, and litterbox every day with the correct kind of cleaner. I have bathing wipes but thought I might need to actually give her a real bath too. When is the best time to do this during treatment? Thanks for the advice everyone! I'm hopeful, but getting a little desperate. Good luck to everyone else dealing with this or similar issues.

I have not used albendazole, but did do some digging around about the effectiveness of this drug, and found that several vets/researchers state somewhat similar comments.

This is from one site-

reatment of Giardia  infections in dogs and cats:

• Metronidazole (e.g., Flagyl) can be used in both dogs and cats (not in pregnant animals).
• Albendazole  (e.g., Valbazen)  was recently found to be quite effective in dogs, and may be more efficacious than metronidazole in stopping the shedding of cysts. However, both metronidazole and albendazole have been associated with significant adverse reactions in dogs and cats:
  • Albendazole: leukopenia +/- anemia and thrombocytopenia; anorexia, lethargy; CNS signs; vomiting and diarrhea; salivation; elevated hepatic and pancreatic enzyme levels; abortion and teratogenicity
  • Metronidazole: vomiting; CNS signs
• Fenbendazole (e.g., Panacur[emoji]174[/emoji] or Drontal-Plus[emoji]174[/emoji]) now appears to be the drug of choice. Used in dogs and cats at 50 mg/kg for 3 (-5) days, fenbendazole has been shown to be completely effective in eliminating experimental Giardia infections, and with only mild vomiting/diarrhea as potential side effects.

Here is another statement from a different site-

Treatment of Giardia 

For many years the primary treatment for Giardia  in dogs and cats has involved metronidazole. For dogs in which metronidazole proved ineffective, quinacrine was often used in the past. However, although quinacrine has been shown to be more effective than metronidazole, it frequently causes side effects, including lethargy, anorexia, and vomiting. It was also used in cats. Quinacrine is no longer available, however. More recently it was shown that albendazole (Valbazen) is highly effective in controlling Giardia. I recommended albendazole as an effective treatment for Giardia from 1993-1997, but experience with albendazole in dogs and cats has shown that it can cause bothersome side effects; including leukopenia, lethargy, and inappetence. Therefore, I no longer recommend albendazole for treatment for giardiasis in dogs and cats.

Fenbendazole (Panacur), well known for its effectiveness against a variety of intestinal parasites, also appears to be very effective against Giardia. In a controlled trial at Cornell University 6/6 dogs were effectively treated in an initial study. The same dose that is used to treat roundworms, hookworms, whipworms, and the tapeworm Taenia pisiformis  (50 mg/kg orally once daily for 5 consecutive days [there have been treatment failures occasionally when therapy is given for only 3 days]) is used to treat Giardia. If the infection is not cleared on this regimen, a longer course of therapy is used (7 days). Fenbendazole has a proven track record for being very safe and is thought to not have any teratogenic effects.Fenbendazole is therefore the drug of choice for treatment of Giardia in pregnant animals. This is now also the preferred treatment for Giardia  in cats.

So clearly, while albendazole may be somewhat effective, there are certainly a few possible side effects that are NOT  good thing. 

I wonder if it's not a bad idea to print this info and show it to your vet. (??) Can't hurt basically, and it may help enlighten him on what works best and the pros and cons here.

If he will not order it for some reason, perhaps considering a new vet, at least for this particular issue is in order. 

While I was aware of how metronidazole alone is not all that effective, I did find a number statistic, that when given first for ghiardia, the metro is only about 60% effective, with the ghiardia returning full force.

I hope this helps some, I know how frustrating it is when you go in armed with knowledge and the vet won't cooperate!~ "can't you please just give me what I want?!" 

Right?  Who wants to keep trying out new meds on their loved cats..................!!

My mom's dog was treated for Giardia unsuccessfully with conventional medicine. Her dog was so sick, losing weight and she was at her wits end. She researched natural remedies and started giving the dog Slippery Elm. He was feeling better soon after, his diarrhea cleared up and he was gaining weight. The only bad thing is now he has permanent damage to his digestive system because he suffered with it for too long before my mom found the slippery elm. Maybe it's worth investigating for your situation. Good luck

Thank you, I checked out the enzyme treatment but from all the questions that he was asked about it, he wouldn't comment on most of them so it worries me that he is willing to tell someone about this method yet won't back it up with anything.  I asked my vet about it but he has never heard of using enzymes this way.  Also I spoke to him again and still if Maia's giardia does return he refuses to use anything other than metronidozole.  The first time I saw him about this he said he has treated cats that have had giardia for years yet now he is at a loss of what else to do for Maia.  I guess on top of all this stress, I now have to find a new vet.  

caroline316 said:

 
Hi all,

We went back to the vet yesterday, and when I asked about Panacur, he said he'd never heard of it being used for giardia....he left the room (I think to google it), then returned suggesting albendazole since it is related to Panacur but easier to administer. I am disheartened as I feel like I cannot trust he knows what the current methods are for treating this in cats. I get that it is difficult to pinpoint and cure, but if this doesn't work, I plan to try something more alternative. I can't keep pumping drugs into her; she's had a rough time and already isn't feeling well on these new meds.

The course is 7 days, then a break, and then another 7 days. Catwoman, do you have thoughts on this? I am very carefully disinfecting her crate, bowls, and litterbox every day with the correct kind of cleaner. I have bathing wipes but thought I might need to actually give her a real bath too. When is the best time to do this during treatment? Thanks for the advice everyone! I'm hopeful, but getting a little desperate. Good luck to everyone else dealing with this or similar issues.

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Just to follow up with Catwoman707, the info she found is definitely true.  Having been dealing with 2 rounds of giardia infection and possibly facing a 3rd round  (my kitten showing some symptoms),  I  have done hours of research and I am still face challenges.  My kitten has had 2 rounds of treatment for giardia using metronidazole and panacur.  Being that she is facing a resistant strain and I am worried she may be facing it again,  I am being more than a little pushy with my vet (I can't say he likes me much at this point) and yet he only will treat her a 3rd time with metronidazole alone instead of using Panacur in combination.  You may want to consider getting a second opinion from another vet as this is what I am looking at doing because my vet will only put her back on metro by itself.  Being that giardia can be fairly resistant (or at least in my kitten's case), I can totally understand how you may not feel comfortable using just the one drug, wether it be albendazole (i've not heard of this one yet) or metronidazole. Like you I am at my wits end with all of this as I got my 4 1/2 month old kitten from a shelter who neglected to take very good care of her.  My kitten was put on Metro and Panacur during the 1st round and was given the all clear from the vet 6 days after treatment when using the Elisa stool test.  Two weeks later came round 2 of giardia.  I have really connected with her yet there isn't much more I can take of this so I too wonder if I need to think about finding her a new home.  I just worry how much help I am to her now as I am stressed to the max.  I am definitely against bringing her back to the same shelter she came from (Aarcs) that did not take care of her in the first place so if it comes down to it, I may have to find another no kill shelter as I am certain no one will take her in if I try to find her a home myself.  I am just praying at this point that the rancid smell and now occasional loose stools are just from having been on meds and that her little body is just trying to rid all the toxins and such that comes with it all. 

Oh and yes it is suggested to give the kitten a bath.  I found a couple people who said to do it on day 1, 3 and 5(if that is the last day).  I did this during round one.  During round two my vet recommended in order to not put too much added stress on the kitten to bath on day one (before you give the first dose of meds) and on the last day after the last dose.  If I am home when Maia has passes a stool, I do wipe her bottom as well just to help avoid reinfecting herself.  

In terms of cleaning, I have become the mad cleaning woman!  I can tell you what I do each day and you are welcome to take it all with a grain of salt and use any suggestions as you feel fit.  I must say I am worn down and spend lots of time cleaning and I don't think it is reasonable to continue this for long term.

*I clean the litter box and litter box scooper with boiling water and bleach every day and refill with new litter daily (can get expensive).

*I boil all water/food dishes every day (the time frame I found online was 3-5 minutes).

*I disinfect with bleach or lysol hard surfaces daily.

*I wash all bed linen in hot water daily since she stays in my bedroom and sleeps and plays on my bed.

*I have steam cleaned my carpets twice and my furniture on during the second round.  I paid for a company to come and do it as their machines reached well above the necessary temperature.  It can be a bit more cost affective to buy your own in order to do multiple steam cleaning sessions but I just couldn't find one that got hot enough with all the furniture attachments.  If you can find a good one, the cdc website suggest to steam clean at 158 degrees for 5 minutes or at 212 for 1 minute.

*I disinfect all hard toys with diluted bleach and boil them with water as well.  Any toys that cannot make it through this process get replaced (currently I don't buy expensive toys due to replacing them often). 

As I mentioned, this is a bit crazy and maybe over the top as I know some that have been told to do much less cleaning and their cats have been just fine.  I just happen to be one of the unlucky ones that has a more resistant strain in my kitten.  Here is the CDC website that goes over a lot of that cleaning: http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/giardia/prevent.html .

I wish you all the best with your kitten and please continue to share your experience as it can help others dealing with this too.  

fefuerzaamor, thanks for all the helpful advice. I really hope your kitten is improving! It sounds like you have been through so much with her. I have had my kitty for two months now and it has been a struggle. She is a very loveable cat, so that helps. After the albendazole treatment,her giardia test came back negative. However, she is still having horribly smelly, loose bm's. The only reason she uses her litterbox to poop is because she is crated when I'm not here to supervise or when I'm asleep. I really don't know what the problem is... I've researched Irritable Bowel disease but I don't know-- she doesn't exactly have diarrhea. She also has some serious dental problems, which could possibly be causing overall problems. So, sad to say she's still sick, but I wanted to let everyone know that the albendazole worked and she seemed to tolerate it a little better than the metronidizol. Good luck to everyone and thanks again for the advice!

catwoman707 said:

I wonder if it's not a bad idea to print this info and show it to your vet. (??) Can't hurt basically, and it may help enlighten him on what works best and the pros and cons here.

If he will not order it for some reason, perhaps considering a new vet, at least for this particular issue is in order. 


While I was aware of how metronidazole alone is not all that effective, I did find a number statistic, that when given first for ghiardia, the metro is only about 60% effective, with the ghiardia returning full force.

I hope this helps some, I know how frustrating it is when you go in armed with knowledge and the vet won't cooperate!~ "can't you please just give me what I want?!" 

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catwoman707 Great information! But you didn't post the links. Do you have them? (And in the future, it'd be so helpful if you could include them when you post quotes! ).

fefuerzaamor said:

Thank you, I checked out the enzyme treatment but from all the questions that he was asked about it, he wouldn't comment on most of them so it worries me that he is willing to tell someone about this method yet won't back it up with anything.  I asked my vet about it but he has never heard of using enzymes this way.  Also I spoke to him again and still if Maia's giardia does return he refuses to use anything other than metronidozole.  The first time I saw him about this he said he has treated cats that have had giardia for years yet now he is at a loss of what else to do for Maia.  I guess on top of all this stress, I now have to find a new vet.  

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Aw, I'm sorry. FYI, Dr. Hofve is a female. She's published a number of books, testified for congress when the pet food industry was being investigated after the 8,500+ animals were poisoned by melamine in 2007/2008, and is currently partnered with Jackson Galaxy. And as you'll note, the reason she doesn't answer any of the questions in the comments is because people are asking about how to use the protocol other than as presented. She'd already made it clear she wouldn't comment on that, and makes the legal point that she cannot treat animals without seeing them. She is a practicing vet and doesn't want to lose her license. But I understand not feeling comfortable with alternatives.

@LDG  here they are, thanks for pointing this out!  

The first link and third are the best, third has great but detailed info.

http://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/pbs/zoonoses/gik9fel/giardia.html

http://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/pbs/zoonoses/gik9fel/giardia.html

http://www.capcvet.org/capc-recommendations/giardia/