foodz for Kitten (name) with struvite crystals?

Kitten is just about 5 years old (September 14) and is having some issues with struvite crystals.. As I've mentioned before, but I'm mainly looking for advise on food at the moment.

I've got about 4 brands/can types I'm going with... The problem is what's affordable as what he will eat meet at a can of friskies "turkey and cheese in gravy" which is said to have (according to a wet food list I found through this site) 252mg phosphorus per 100 calories. The site said that I should stick under 250mg.... So I know that it's really pushing it. It's got corn and soy... I hate it.. But it's adorable and he eats it. What I'm looking to know is... Should I let him eat it? Or am I taking a risk?

My other brand at 172 mg is felidea chicken an rice. Rice is no good... But of course better than corn and soy. But he wont eat it. Neither will his mother. >> funny thing is they look almost identical but if I mix half and half of this and the friskies .... He'll eat it. Most of it

My top choose brand at 1.19$/85g can/pouch is weruva (sp?) yes, not a lot of "bang for your buck" but the main problem is price. Finances are wry tight, but my dumb ass frugality got me into this mess with dry food.... And it's certainly not going to get me out of this mess.

He stuck his nose up at the chicken stuff in a can, but loved the red tuna meat (Asian style I think it's called- but only realized it was tuna after I opened it.. Yuk!) and one other fish type. It's phosphorus for both was 22% max. I realize I can't garuntee these numbers but.., if it's max.. That at worst it's lower? I know fish is supposed to be of limits because of a high phosphorus content... How much can I trust these numbers?

I'm goin out now to get (at my dismay) hills C/D with chicken. Because its low phosphorus that he will eat.

Otherwise kitten is doing well. Sittin with dad on the couch as I left, and eating (haven't seen much water - trying to introduce it to his food... So far I've only tried with the friskies because it's already in gravy and he ate it) he was playing with the laser pointer with his brothers this morning.

My idea was to feed him 1 weruva can in 2 meals and then half a friskies can as dinner. But I am very very worried about back sliding since I have no idea what stage the crystals are at. He isn't inflamed anymore (maybe a little?) and I take a look at his downstairs an feel his bladder every morning. I talked to him this morning an said "this feel a little full... Go use your box please" and what does he do? I made sure he went, because I stuck my finger in his litter and made sure there was a warm spot. He alway gets half or so of a crunchy treat after he uses his box.

Idk is this is all to much detail but I have to cover my bases any experience with crystals and food is helpful. Raw sounds great... But I want to focus on wet food at the moment even I it's crap like hills C/D .. He's like a rebellious teenager.... "oh, this is full of garbage food mom doesn't want me to eat? Time to chow down"

When money is better I want to switch him to full weruva if it's ok ... But i wanted to feed the rest of the family felidea... But his mother is my road block. So the rest of the family is on friskies right now... So that is he sneaks a bite.. I don't have to panic.

Aw Sorry kitten is dealing with struvite crystals. I hope others come along with more experience in nutrition for a cat with crystals. Stay away from carbs (corn, wheat, rice, soy ) as these contribute to the formation of struvite crystals in the bladder due to the high ph levels, low acidity. I think you need to acidify the diet to disolve the struvites. I am sorry I don't have more to suggest, but hope someone will soon.

Thanks for your feedback and concern

There are several threads about foods for cats with struvite crystals that might be helpful: Search Results for “food struvite crystals”

I have had two male cats with struvite crystals.  Both developed the problem as young cats.  The vet put them on Hills S/D, dry.  Then they were switched to a maintenance diet of W/D dry.  One cat ate that with no problems for the rest of his life.  He lived to age 14 and never got blocked.  The other cat, Muffin,is still living, is now 12 years old.  Recently he had surgery for liver cancer and was put on wet Purina U/R and sometimes continuing with the W/D.  Along with that I put a filter on my kitchen sink and only gave them filtered water to drink.  Muffin had been totally blocked two times before being put on this diet.  He has done very well until now. He has some issues, but we think it is a UTI or probems because of being on a steroid.  I nkow these foods I have named leave something to be desired, but it has worked well for my two cats.  I hope you find something that will work for yours.

Blueyedgirl:
Thanks for the info! Dry food.... I wasn't sure I wanted to go there, it got me into this mess.

Kitten looks and acts like himself, I've been trying to wait him out.. But even a 50/50 of crap (friskies- now a bad word in my house!) and hills C/D all he will do is lick the juices..... Tried Merick thanksgiving dinner... Liked the juice a little and stopped. Tried a 50/50 ... He licked te juice of half of it. So I caved and have him some friskies with a tiny bit of Merick mixed in. Of course he eats it.

What if I gave him dry food expanded with water or chicken broth? I used to do this for dry food on occasion. But is chicken broth to high in phosphorus?

My newest problem is our youngest calcifer about 5 months old... Who now won't touch the friskies. I'm pretty sure he was ok with Merick but I've been wrapped up with kitten giving me grief (that's his name to be clear, it's a long story). I'm trying another Merick as soon as it comes in on Friday, cowboy cookout. Wish me luck! I'm so thankful kitten is out of danger now that we have his inclination under control.

Could someone walk me through this????

maxshouse.com/nutrition/aafco_cat_food_nutrient_profiles.htm

Also, blueyedgirl: how long was your kitty on the kibble? I'm worried about it... But if I balance it with wet it should be ok right? ....I'm so conflicted

Have had 2 struvite kitties.  Farley lived a long life on c/d dry.  Now, Beeba is on c/d dry and has been crystal free since...about 3 years.

I would not hesitate to keep them on this.  Try not to think of it as "dry" but as much needed medicine.

Thehouseofgods said:

Could someone walk me through this????
maxshouse.com/nutrition/aafco_cat_food_nutrient_profiles.htm
Also, blueyedgirl: how long was your kitty on the kibble? I'm worried about it... But if I balance it with wet it should be ok right? ....I'm so conflicted

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 Both of my cats ate dry food only most of their life.  Speedboat lived to age 14, no more problems.  Muffin still lives and is 12 years old.  However he now also eats Purina UR along with the dry kibble.

Sometimes I just add water to the kibble to be sure he is drinking.

Thank you so much! To everyone who gar their personal knowledge! This is what I was looking for. How does the dry food work? I was told by my first vet (no longer with them) something about salt and increasing water intake, but I seem to remember hearing something about it coating the bladder to prevent the formation and/or attachment or crystals?

For the time being I found a wet food he will eat, wellness turkey, but lol he isn't exactly thrilled about it. I have to bug him a few times, but the mid day meal is the worst. They eat at 9am normally, 3 or 4 pm and 11 or 12 pm... Believe me.... With three Siamese/mix's I do NOT miss the morning meal time. I don't get to sleep in! Kibble was great for that. And would eliminate me having to feed him separately, which he hates since he is still VERY attached to his mother, he still pretends to nurse! He fits his name lol! Thank you so much! To everyone who gar their personal knowledge! This is what I was looking for. How does the dry food work? I was told by my first vet (no longer with them) something about salt and increasing water intake, but I seem to remember hearing something about it coating the bladder to prevent the formation and/or attachment or crystals?

For the time being I found a wet food he will eat, wellness turkey, but lol he isn't exactly thrilled about it. I have to bug him a few times, but the mid day meal is the worst. They eat at 9am normally, 3 or 4 pm and 11 or 12 pm... Believe me.... With three Siamese/mix's I do NOT miss the morning meal time. I don't get to sleep in! Kibble was great for that. And would eliminate me having to feed him separately, which he hates since he is still VERY attached to his mother, he still pretends to nurse! He fits his name lol!

Also, is anyone able to tell me about phosphorus binders. I know they are regularly used for CRF, but I thought that if given an appropriate dose it could work for struvite crystals to eliminate some but not all of the phosphorus. I'm not trying to oer complicate my life... Kitten just seems to be loosin interest in the wellness, and of course jumps at the chance to eat friskies. I noticed though that the royal canin S/o wet has a 251mg phosphorus content, so if the friskies has 252 i assume that isn't as bad as I thought. Any experience with the s/o wet? Tried to talk to hubby about dry and he looked at me like I was off my meds.

Thehouseofgods said:

Also, is anyone able to tell me about phosphorus binders. I know they are regularly used for CRF, but I thought that if given an appropriate dose it could work for struvite crystals to eliminate some but not all of the phosphorus. I'm not trying to oer complicate my life... Kitten just seems to be loosin interest in the wellness, and of course jumps at the chance to eat friskies. I noticed though that the royal canin S/o wet has a 251mg phosphorus content, so if the friskies has 252 i assume that isn't as bad as I thought. Any experience with the s/o wet? Tried to talk to hubby about dry and he looked at me like I was off my meds.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't do phosphate (phosphorus) binders because foods are supposed to be balanced regarding the calcium to phosphorus ratio, which is especially important for kitties. Are you familiar with the phosphorus content of foods table that Dr. Lisa (lot of great info on urinary issues) has a link to on her site? Here it is, just in case. Too much or too little of either calcium or phosphorus will lead to health issues--there needs to be a balance. I would talk to your vet about the phosphate binders and get guidance from him/her.

What I would do is add extra water to any canned food and never feed dry (kibble) food. Extra water in food will help flush the crystals via urine so they don't accumulate and cause problems. Kibble has little water in it so that is reason enough to not feed to kitties. I would also choose canned foods that do not contain any grains, fruits, or veggies in them because these alkalize a kitty's urine and lead to crystals. Kitties need to have acidic urine, which is kept within the normal range for them by feeding quality meat protein. Foods with grains, fruits, and veggies count the protein in these ingredients toward the protein content--but they are of little use to kitties, and can cause health problems.

Another member her will give her kitty that is prone to crystals, etc. sub-Q fluids (Lactated Ringers Solution) to help flush the crystals out via urine. You would have to get this from your vet and discuss this with him or her.

Long story, short: When my boy Abby (now 16 years old) had crystals, I did a diet tweak (and supplements as recommended here during the acute phase + pain med) and he has been fine for the last six years or so. I feed mine a home-prepared balanced raw diet and make sure I add enough extra water to it. His was also stress related, which is common for most kitties with urinary issues, so when he is stressing over outside kitties invading his "space" (he's inside), I give him L-Theanine--Country Life Suntheanine or NOW Suntheanine: 25mg 2 times a day. It helps to calm him and he isn't so upset over outside kitties or any other stressors that he has. Although very outgoing, laid back most of the time, and articulate, Abby isn't a kitty that does well with change.

Hope this helps a bit.

I can help you. I have one. I used to feed the dry, not so good grocery store food, didn't know about proper cat health and nutrition back then. He was blocked, only 2 yrs old. His vet at that time, put him on Hills Science Diet SD, then CD. His crystals came back, I said something ain't right with this picture, so I did extensive research on crystals. And this is after, I was at a show in Garden State, was outside, we were all talking about food, and they begged me, to take him off Hills Science Diet, said it does not work, and it has exoyaquin, which I can't spell, lol.  Well, they were right, his crystals came back, and that exoyaquin is nasty stuff.

The key, is to give them grain free, by product free, gluten free feed. Grains are one, of many, causes of crystals, its the biggest one. The other key is to keep them flushed out. You have to give them wet food, mixed with water, so its real soupy, twice a day. You cannot, give them dry. Feeding dry, and feeding a food with grains in it, is what starts all this.

Yes, some kitties will eat dry food all their lifes and not get crystals, some kitties will eat the not so good grocery store food, all their lifes, and not get sick.  Some people will smoke, and live to be 100, lol.  Now that you have a crystal kitty, you have to make some changes, because, it is affecting him.

The reason vets put crystal kitties on Hills and Royal Canin SO, other than they sell the food, and make money from it, is the food is very high in salt, too high in salt. What happens when you eat a food, with a lot of salt on it, you drink more. That is the object of the game, to get them to drink more water, but it can be accomplished in a safer manner, in a less expensive manner, and without giving kitty all those grains, which Hills and Royal Canin are full of, and all the other not so good stuff, they are full of.

You also want to avoid any Purina products, which is Purina, Friskies, Meox Mix, Fancy Feast, Kit and Kabootle, Wiskas, if you see the little red checkerboard squares, on the box or can, its made by Nestle Purina.

You have to feed a grain free food, grains cause crystals

You have to feed wet only, mixed with water, so its real soupy, twice a day, this keeps them flushed out, and keeps the urine from getting too concentrated, which burns the bladder walls, and makes them think they have to pee, even when they don't, hence, they get in and out of the box.

Keeping them flushed out, is imperative.

If kitty won't eat wet, I had one, then you mix 1 teaspoon Gerber baby food, chicken or turkey ONLY, with water, so its like a broth, twice a day, but he was not a crystal kitty, he would only eat dry, but I didn't want him to start.

No more tap water, it has too many minerals in it. You have to give purified drinking water, not distilled, not spring, but purified, I get the store gal jug, its like $1.00, or some use Brita, some use PURR.

Grains and not keeping them flushed out, is not the only causes of crystals, there are others, and you have to figure out, what they are, but these ones are biggies.

Another biggie, is stress in the household.  Change in household routine, fighting, yelling, lot of people over, loud parties, being picked on by other pets or family members, young children, new job, changing the furniture around, new furniture, something you are stressed/upset about. Kitties are very sensative to stress, they pick up on your stress, they like order and routine in the household, they will patrol the household several times a day, to see if everything is where it should be.  Pet parent that is home at the same time every day, but then maybe has to go on a trip, and is gone for a few days, family member is sick and you are stressed about it.

Cat boxes should be large, not covered, and bedded deep, mine are very large and I bed 6 inches. Covered boxes hold in the smell, a kitty's sense of smell, is alot higher than ours, so its too strong for them. They are right down there, like you sticking your nose, about 6 inches from the box.  Look in the family dollor stores, for the very large storage bins, thats what some use, and they are way less expensive, than the large boxes at pet stores.

Boxes should be scooped every day.

What litter do you use?  I use scoopable, unscented. The clay litter is little stones, it hurts their feet, kinda like you walking barefoot on little stones. Clay litter does not absorb the oder.  Kitties sit right down, when they pee, the scented ones can burn their little bee-hinds.

Cat boxes should not be in high traffic areas, kinda like you using the bathroom, in public, no stall, people walking by you. Cat boxes should not be near furnace, dryer, washer, that may come on suddenly, and scare kitty.

Kitty should not be prevented from getting to the box, by other pets or family members.

You should have as many boxes, as you have kitties, some say even one more than that.

When you pick the box, the pee ball, should be as big as a baseball, thats how you know, kitty is peeing a good amount, and staying flushed out.

Another thing, my now vet said to do, was place several bowels of water thru out the house, not just one water bowl, mine use all of them.

You want to avoid any fish foods or fish treats, like a food that is advertised as fish flavored, salmon flavored, boy kitties cannot have these, and no tuna either, its another cause of crystals.

I feed Blue Wilderness chicken, its grain free, by product free, gluten free, and low in salt. Its by Blue Buffalo, you can get it in Petsmart or Petco.  Yes, its more expensive than the grocery store food, but much less expensive, than taking them to the vets. When they cut our hours, I cut them back to wet in the morn and dry at night, he was getting in and out of the box, in he went, what did you change, my vet asked, I told her, she said, you "have" to give him wet twice a day. His urine got too concentrated, it burned his bladder walls, he has to be kept flushed out, I did, no more probs. He is now 8 yrs old, no more probs, no more crystals, no more bladder issues.

Hope this helps and best of luck.        

Edited to add

http://catinfo.org/

Ya dry isn't going to happen here, I think that much is certain. I find a lot of conflicting info about the crystals, some saying the right food is whatever he will eat. That doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

He like's his wellness turkey.... finally something he will eat with low phosphorus and no grain as far I remember... I'm really stretching the budget though.. It might have a few veggies ... But i'm rally doing all that I can do. I don't know if his pee's are completely normal size, although conistering the cushion he pee'd on i'd say very close to a baseball, I feel his bladder at least once a day, and I give give him a treat before or after for positive association.

Friskies I know is full of grain, but I really can't afford to feed the whole family wellness along with the fact that my youngest is very fussy, and will mostly stick his nose up at anything that isn't fresh out of a can. At least I think that's his problem.

I live in a tiny little apartment, and 1 box cleaned 2-3 times a day seems to work, believe me i know when theres a box problem. It's a storage tote with a hole in the lid. Three out of four are directly related , ie 2 brothers with the same father (over the rainbow due to crystals) and their mama kitty. And we barely ever have company, even more so now.

We use equine bedding, flushable and amazing with odor. I loath clay

Hi, I just thought I'd add some suggestions, & hope they are helpful. I just went through a bladder bacterial infection w/ Angel. We did see crystals in his bladder, but no blockage, or passing. He at the Vet's for two nights, until he could pee on his own. They had him on anti-biotics, anti-spasmodic (that's what finally helped him pee), & pain meds! (& a Glucosamine supplement for his thickened bladder wall).

I have only had him for 3yrs. & have fed him wet & dry,(Nat.Bal), then mostly wet, & now 95% raw. So unless the crystals came from the bad dry food only

diet his previous owner was feeding him, we don't know where they came from.

ANYWAY,  three good brands we have tried, & like are, Natural Balance, Before the Grain, & by nature. They are all around 95-96% protein.

Very good quality, & no "by products."  All are also pate'.

*Be careful w/ the cowboy cookout. I don't know if it was just Angel's tummy or what, BUT, even though it was full of great ingredients, I think it contained too many fruits & veggies. He had diarrhea for a solid month!!  Cat's are carnivores, they don't need all of those fruits & veggies.

I understand about cost, "I'm a single Meowmy."- but if you can find the by nature it's about the same cost as the others, (approx 1.39-1.59/can), but it's 6.5oz instead of 5.5oz, so you get an exrta oz!  Also It's great because it's not just Turkey or Beef etc.. It's Turkey & Liver, Beef & liver. Angel Loves it!

Good luck with everything! Sending good vibes your way!!