Two pregnant mommas - I have questions

justine

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Good morning everyone!

I have been a lurker on this site for exactly a week, which is how long I have been fostering two pregnant cats. Their story is this. A week and a half ago, my sister called me. She is a manager overseeing about 20 townhomes. She was checking a recently vacated townhome and discovered two cats the owner had left behind. The cats had free rein in the empty two bedroom townhome for two days until my sister discovered them. There was no FOOD no WATER and no LITTER PANs in the unit!!!! It is horrifying to even think about if she had waited any longer to check the unit. Instead of contacted the owners, she contacted me and I immediately told her I would foster them. She did not want to contact the 'owners' because she did not want them to go back to the tenants that would just leave them without food, water, or a place to go to the bathroom.

I was not able to pick them up until Thursday of last week. So my sister took care of them at her place for two days. In that time, they ate a ton and she realized they were both pregnant. When I picked them up, they looked in pretty good health and are very obviously pregnant.

Now my sister knows the history of these tentants and she is pretty certain these cats have never had vet care or vaccinations. She is also pretty certain the two cats are mother-daughter. The father or fathers are stray or feral and unknown. The daughter is not even a year old because my sister remembers seeing a litter of kittens around Christmas.

Now for my situation. I have a 9lb whippet/beagle puppy (1 yr old) and a spayed cat (1 1/2 yrs old) at my house that are best buds. When I first brought these two mamma cats to my house, I kept them completely separate from my animals in my master bedroom. I immediately gave them baths with feline flea and tick shamoo. I combed their fur and did a thorough check for fleas or ear mites - none to be found.

I put cat food, water, and a litter box in my walk-in closet and took a trip to the local pet store. I purchased some high protein canned cat food as a supplement to the kitten food I am feeding the cats (grain-free I might add).

Over the course of this week, the cats have met my two boys and love to be carried around by them. They have met my dog and my dog and the cats completely ignore eachother. They will all lay around on my bed and ignore each other. When I am at work, my dog stays in my laundry room, so no worries there.

My cat on the other hand is making friends with the younger pregnant cat, but wants nothing to do with the older one. She tends to hang out by herself in my son's room on his bed.

Both cats are extremely friendly. They absolutely hated when I gave them a bath, but not once did they extend their claws.

Anyways, this is my story and I guess I have the following questions.

These two pregnant cats don't really like hanging around eachother. Is this because they are both pregnant and feel competition for survival? Should I be concerned when they have their kittens that they will try to hurt eachother or kittens?

What vaccinations are they able to get pregnant, if any? I will be bringing them to the vet as soon as I get back from vacation. While I am on vacation, my sister will be staying at my house to keep on eye on my animals?

I have read the checklist of items to have for when the cats go into labor and most of it is assembled. I just hope they wait until I am back form vacation.

I have read that kittens should not go to new homes until they are 12 weeks old. If this is the case, can they be spayed/neutered before going to their new homes?

Do vets offer a discount if I were to get every single cat/kitten neutered? I want to do the responsible thing for these sweet mamma cats and their young.

I think that is long enough for a first post. I think I just want to know if there is anything obvious I am forgetting to do in caring for these two cats. I've never owned a cat that wasn't spayed/neuterd, so this is a first time for me.

Thanks for reading my novel!
 

catnamedpanda

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First off thank you for taking in these two girls, and wanting to be so responsible with them.

As far as the two hurting each other or the kittens, my guess would be if they are not aggressive with each other now, then they will likely not be with kittens. Of course every cat is different. I fostered 2 pregnant girls not that long ago, they were close with each other and raised the kittens, who were born 5 days apart, together like one big litter. Of course every cat is different so I would just watch them and see what their behavior is like when the kittens arrive.

The only vaccine that a pregnant cat can get while pregnant is rabies. You can however have them dewormed and treated for fleas (with a vet approved med). It would actually be a good idea to go ahead and have them dewormed now before they have the kittens.

Yes you can have all the kittens spayed/ neutered before they go to their new homes. Many vets will do them when they are 2lbs. As far as the vet giving you a discount you would have to talk to them and see if you can work something out. You can also look for a low cost spay clinic in your area.
 

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What beautiful cats. I won't even go into what I think of people who leave cats (or any pets) behind. :argh: :soap: :wife: :mad2:

You should take the cats to the vet to have them checked for FeLV and FIV. The vet will probably not give vaccinations while they are pregnant, but you can ask how soon it can be done. My vet didn't want to give Goldy her vaccinations while she was pregnant or lactating.

The kittens can be spayed/neutered when they are 2 months and 2 pounds, but not all vets will do it that early. You'll have to ask your vet about volume discounts. Where are you located? There may be some low-cost S&N clinics near you. Also, check with the shelters to find out where they take their cats. Some shelters will even help with the cost as long as you are fostering.

Good luck with the kitties, and keep us updated.
 

missymotus

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These two pregnant cats don't really like hanging around eachother. Is this because they are both pregnant and feel competition for survival?
Entire girls often don't like other entire girls around, once the kittens are born they may like to raise them together, once both are spayed they should calm down but may never be friends.
What vaccinations are they able to get pregnant, if any? I will be bringing them to the vet as soon as I get back from vacation. While I am on vacation, my sister will be staying at my house to keep on eye on my animals?
Pregnant cats shouldn't be vaccinated, they can be wormed though. Excellent that your sister is staying while you're away, pregnant girls shouldn't be left alone while giving birth. 
I have read that kittens should not go to new homes until they are 12 weeks old. If this is the case, can they be spayed/neutered before going to their new homes?
That's correct, I get my litters desexed (and microchipped) at 10 weeks old. 
Do vets offer a discount if I were to get every single cat/kitten neutered?
Over here there are vets who will work with people who rescue, they do a discount on vaccinations, microchipping, neutering. You'd have to call and ask.
 
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eb24

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You are absolutely amazing for what you are doing for these girls! It is no small feat to foster one pregnant cat, let alone two. I bow to your awesomeness! So far it sounds like you have done everything right. A+ on choosing to go for grain free food- just so I understand correctly, they are free grazing on dry kitten food and then also getting fed wet food throughout the day? I think that's what you are doing and that is exactly right. Let them eat as much as they want to. If either needs to put on extra weight, nutri-cal is a great supplement to use. It comes as a gel and you just mix it into their wet food. It's very tasty and I give it to all my fosters just so they get the extra calories. You can get it from the vet or in almost any pet store. 

As for your questions:

- As long as they tolerate each other I think they will be fine. But, as already mentioned it just depends on the cat and you'll have to wait and see how they act once the kittens are born. It's a good idea to find a way to separate them from your resident cat as they are not likely to be so fond of her once the babies come. Most of my pregnant fosters don't mind my resident cat until they give birth, then they see her as a threat and will chase her off. Start thinking of ways you can separate them from each other just in case it becomes a problem. 

- Also agree with a previous poster that most kittens can be fixed once they reach 8 weeks and a minimum of 2 pounds and are otherwise healthy. Talk to your vet about how they feel about early spay and neuter. As far as a discount it just depends on the vet. I would explain the situation exactly as you did here and see what you guys can work out. I would also really encourage you to see if there is a no-kill shelter in your area and talk to them. At the one I foster for we will take care of all the medical expenses for people in situations like yours so long as they keep them as fosters and agree that they be adopted out through the shelter. If you can find one like this it can save you a ton of money on vet bills, as well as save you the stress of having to re-home them all as the shelter will help with that. If you can't find one, look for a low cost spay/neuter clinic in your area. 

- The only thing I know of that is safe when they are pregnant is the de-worming. I also agree with GoldyCat that you should have them tested for FIV/FeLV (it's a blood test and where I am costs about $40). FIV is like human AIDS and FeLV is like human leukemia. Neither is transmittable to humans or dogs, but they could give it to your cat. FIV is only transmitted through penetrating bites but FeLV can be passed on through their stool by sharing a litterbox or by excessively grooming each other. They can lead perfectly healthy, long lives but should be kept separate from your cat until you are certain they are negative. 

A few questions/comments from me (you may already know this stuff so excuse me if I am being repetitive):

- How old are your boys? If they are really young (like under the age of 5) make sure they are very careful around the kittens and that you teach them how to hold them properly. It's not that you have bad kids, it's just the nature of young kids to be a little rough and tiny kittens need to be handled very carefully. Also, wait and see how the Moms react to having their babies handled. Some Moms are overprotective and can become aggressive. Make sure you know their reaction before your boys go near them so they don't get scratched or otherwise injured. Very sweet pregnant cats can be not so sweet when they are protecting their young! 

- Cats can go back into heat pretty quickly after giving birth and can get pregnant again. And, a calling female will go to great lengths to find her suitor. So, double and triple check there is no way they can get out (check the window screens, ect). 

- Can you feel the kittens moving around? If you can you are generally within 2 weeks of labor. If not, then you usually have more time. This may help give you an idea about if they will deliver while you are on vacation. Make sure you have kittening boxes for each set up and ready to go before you leave just in case, and make sure your sister is familiar with the basics of cat labor. Have the emergency after hours vet closest to you on hand just in case! Another poster shared this link with me and I'm obsessed with it: I think it does a great job of giving a comprehensive overview: http://www.fabcats.org/breeders/infosheets/breeding_from_your_cat/felineparturition.html

- All cats exhibit different signs before going into labor. Some stop eating while others continue to chow down. The one sign I consistently see is the frantic search for the perfect place to nest. Make your kittening boxes as attractive as possible while making other areas not appealing (by blocking them off) to try and encourage them to go where you want them to. Otherwise you may end up with someone having kittens in your bed! 

Keep trolling around the forum as you can find a lot of helpful advice in other peoples threads. And, don't hesitate to ask as many questions as you need to. They are both gorgeous and I can't wait to see what their kittens look like! Please keep us posted!
 
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justine

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Good evening and boy has it been a busy day!!!

Thank you for your replies everyone.

The daughter, we now call Whiskers went into labor at 8:15am. I did not think she was hardly showing and thought I would have at least 2-3 more weeks. She had FOUR gorgeous kittens and here are the stats.

#1 8:30am White with markings born head first weighing 86g

#2 black and white also born head first and weighing 102g - very feisty from birth!

#3 gray with faint white striping on belly and legs and born breeched weighing 104g

#4 gray just like momma and born breeched weighing 88g

The last kitten arrived at 9:30am.

This was Whisters first and last litter and she did very well. She did not want to be alone and I had to assist in clipping the umbilical cords for all. She ate all four afterbirths. I did wait to see if she would take care of the cords, but she didn't and would pull the kittens around as she ate the afterbirth so I clipped each of them. Between each birthing, I laid kittens on a blanket with a sock of warm rice under it. And returned the kittens to snuggle with mom. It was very obvious when she was done because she rolled on her back with all the kittens snuggling. It was so precious.

At 11am the kittens weighed as follows:

#1 86g

#2 104g

#3 104g

#4 90g

At 6:30pm tonight kittens weighed as follows:

#1 90g

#2 112g

#3 114g

#4 96g

I will try to post a pic of the happy family.

More great news. I found a rescue here in Minnesota that will pay for all vet fees and pay for all spay and neuters for the mommas and their kittens as long as I foster care for them until good homes are found. They suggested 6-8 weeks until adoption, so I will have to talk to them about waiting until 12 weeks. I can't see a vet spaying at 6 weeks old!

That's it for now! I need to start packing for my vacation!!!

Later and thank you all for your supportive comments and advice so far. This has been quite the adventure! And with one healthy pregnant momma to go!

Justine
 
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missymotus

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Well done Whiskers, lucky you got them when you did.

Excellent news on the rescue helping with the kittens, please don't let them go at 6-8 weeks it really is too young, 10 is really the minimum with 12 being better. And yes, some vets will spay at 6 weeks, it's more about weight than age anyway.
 

8furballs

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Aw! Momma looks very content and happy. What a cute family. Reminds me when Chloe had her litter! Hope Maya has an easy time juts like Whiskers did! 
 
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justine

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Good evening everyone!

So far so good. At 10pm, a weigh-in of each baby shows an increase of 2 grams each. I am so relieved - Whiskers is a natural!

After all this effort to provide a good home for these two beautiful female cats, I am going to make sure their babies find good homes at 12 weeks of age and not any sooner. They deserve the best and just being apart of their birth and their life since day 1 makes me feel so responsible for them. Hard to explain really.

Anyways, I will be making sure the momma cats do not go anywhere near the front or back doors of my house. There is no way these two are stepping outside.

I got to baby sit while Whiskers ate. It was funny because anytime a baby squeaked she came running back to sniff. Then would walk back to the food.

Whiskers has not gone to the bathroom yet. Should I be concerned? The litter box, food and water are all withing a few feed of her chosen nesting spot. She has not tried to move the babies.

Have a good night!

Justine
 

eb24

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This was Whisters first and last litter and she did very well. She did not want to be alone and I had to assist in clipping the umbilical cords for all. She ate all four afterbirths. I did wait to see if she would take care of the cords, but she didn't and would pull the kittens around as she ate the afterbirth so I clipped each of them. Between each birthing, I laid kittens on a blanket with a sock of warm rice under it. And returned the kittens to snuggle with mom. It was very obvious when she was done because she rolled on her back with all the kittens snuggling. It was so precious.

More great news. I found a rescue here in Minnesota that will pay for all vet fees and pay for all spay and neuters for the mommas and their kittens as long as I foster care for them until good homes are found. They suggested 6-8 weeks until adoption, so I will have to talk to them about waiting until 12 weeks. I can't see a vet spaying at 6 weeks old!

That's it for now! I need to start packing for my vacation!!!

Later and thank you all for your supportive comments and advice so far. This has been quite the adventure! And with one healthy pregnant momma to go!

Justine
Yay! I'm so happy you were there for the birth! It must be a trend with young mothers because I just went through a similar experience with my 6 month old foster (having to tear the cords, ect). At least Whiskas has settled into her mothering routine. It sounds like you did a fantastic job! 

That's also amazing about finding the shelter! I'm so glad there is one near you willing to work with you. It's the best case scenario for all parties involved. 
Well done Whiskers, lucky you got them when you did.

Excellent news on the rescue helping with the kittens, please don't let them go at 6-8 weeks it really is too young, 10 is really the minimum with 12 being better. And yes, some vets will spay at 6 weeks, it's more about weight than age anyway.
99% of the time I agree with MM but this is one point we have differing (yet respectful) opinions on. I absolutely agree that waiting 10-12 weeks is in the best interest of the kittens, but many shelters do adopt out as early as 8 (I think 6 is too early). One reason is because people want a kitten when they still are young and have that fluff to them. By the time they are 12 weeks they look like little cats, not like baby kittens. The goal of shelters is to find homes for as many as they can and sometimes that means pulling them from Mom a little early. I try to keep mine until 10 weeks but if their are adopters when they are 8 weeks I will let them go so long as they are big enough for their surgeries. Part of fostering is not only raising the best kittens you can but making sure they have a home. It does no good to keep them until 12 weeks if nobody wants them. It all depends on the development of that particular litter. Some will grow quickly and be ready younger, while others really need the extra time. The shelter will likely work with you if you tell them kindly what you have heard and think. Maybe you guys can meet in the middle of 8-10 weeks vs 6 or 12. Also, if you can get to know some of the adoptive families they may want their kitten to stay with Momma a litter longer so long as they can come visit. I have had really good success with that. None of this means I don't love or care about my fosters. It's just when you work with a shelter and see how few and far between families are you have to weigh the risks of pulling them early with the benefits of being with the right family. It varies by the litter and by the kitten. 
Whiskers has not gone to the bathroom yet. Should I be concerned? The litter box, food and water are all withing a few feed of her chosen nesting spot. She has not tried to move the babies.

Have a good night!

Justine
It's normal for her not to go to the bathroom for a day or two after birth. It's also normal if she doesn't eat much, just keep the litterbox, fresh water and dry food as close to the nest as you can and keep offering her wet. When she really gets hungry or needs to go she'll get up! 
 
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justine

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Good evening everyone!

I just got back from my boundary waters vacation today. I was very anxious to see how my two foster cats are doing. So here is the update. 

Whiskers is doing great. She is such a good momma!

Her babies weigh as follows:

#1 202g

#2 252g

#3 230g

#4 192g

They all look healthy and have started to open their eyes!

Maya has still not had her kittens and she looks ready to explode. I am so glad she waited until I was back from vacay, but I hope it happens soon. She looks quite uncomfortable.

Emily - what do you mean it looks like I have a white sire? Are all white cats male for something? This is something I did not know...

Thanks to everyone for advice and pointers. I am learning so much!

Have a good night!
 

missymotus

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Great the kittens are all doing well and that Maya has waited for you.
 

eb24

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Emily - what do you mean it looks like I have a white sire? Are all white cats male for something? This is something I did not know...
I think what EmilyMay was referring to is the the White gene is a dominant gene. So, in order to have an all white kitten (or even a kitten that is predominately white like baby #1) then one of the parents must be white or mostly white. SInce Whiskers is clearly not a white cat, then the Dad must have been. Not all white cats are male, but all white cats do have a white colored parent. Also, many (but not all) white cats are deaf, so that is something to watch for as well. 
 
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justine

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Oh wow, that is really interesting genetics. I will pay close attention to the white baby as the ears develop.

This site is great. I have been learning so much. Thanks again everyone for comments and advice!
 

missymotus

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The white could be a colour point, both parent must carry to produce a kitten, you know mum does by the tabby point daughter

Likely a blue point, if a pointed cat. dilutes colour up slower. Look for a tinge of blue around the rims of the ears and nose


A plain white cat with blue eyes may be deaf, not always. And some odd eyes white (one blue, one yellow/green eye) may only be deaf on the blue eye side
 
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