Need advice - Socializing slightly older feral kittens.

A little background:  Two months ago, I trapped 3 feral kittens that were born under my deck.  They were about 8 weeks old at the time.  I brought them in and put them in a small room in my basement - the only doable room; this has been the hottest summer on record in Denver; I have no a/c; and the only other doable rooms are upstairs and were/are waaaay too hot (for us, not necessarily the kittens). 

After a couple of weeks, it became apparent that my BF and I couldn't possibly socialize all three kittens.  One, a little Siamese, wasn't doing well, so when a friend offered to take her and work with her one-on-one, we agreed.  She did a great job and that kitten is now living in a new home.  Yay. 

So that left me with two other kittens, one male and one female.  We were going to separate them but again, difficult to do in this heatwave, plus the time we'd have to spend with each one separately is difficult - I work 12 hour shifts (three days a week), which leaves very little time when I get home from work, plus I have two other cats and a big needy dog (who whines and barks while I'm with the kittens)!! 

Anyway, what we've been doing: We started feeding them on our laps and playing with them.  We probably spent/spend at least 2 hours a day hanging with them. We hand-feed them treats (baby food or deli turkey bits), which they love.   The male did really well and at 4 weeks into taming was very social.  The female not so much... She will still only let us pet her while she's eating.  They now have the run of the basement, which I wasn't thrilled about but my BF felt they needed.  Unfortunately, there are lots of hiding places there and they hide under the futon bed a lot and we're not sure whether they're losing ground with the taming...  BTW, we can keep these kittens if need be and we figure the shy female may never be adoptable.

So my questions: 

1) They are now about 16 weeks old.  If we could figure out a way to separate them, is it too late?  Would it be helpful to separate them for a couple of hours on the days we're not working and have the time, instead of 24/7?  I'm afraid if we do separate them 24/7, they won't get as much time as they are now.

2) How on earth do I integrate them into my household??  We've kind of tried; let the other animals down the basement when we're down there.  The dog, while not too bad, has a habit of acting a little too interested and when I try to correct him, it scares the cats even more!  My younger cat growls then slinks away; the older (15 years old and not very healthy) one is being very difficult; hissing, howling, and swatting.  I've taken a towel and blanket with the kitten smell and placed it upstairs for my cats to sniff but that's the only other thing I've done so far.

Any suggestions/advice would be helpful!!

Well aren't you loves for rescuing these babies!

I'm not sure where to begin. :lol3:

First, have they been spayed/neutered at this point? If not, that should definitely be done now. :nod:

As to the process of socialization... given the constraints, I'm not sure separating them is what is best at this point. It's unfortunate they have the run of the basement. Cats really don't need so much space as they need stimulation. Having these places to hide has caused the set-back. Do they come out for food, or for interactive play? Does the dog barking/whining while you're downstairs with them make them nervous?

Unfortunately, when it comes to introducing the dog to cats, the dog is the one that has to know how to behave. http://www.thecatsite.com/a/introducing-cats-to-dogs

I wrote a somewhat detailed summary of the process we used to introduce our last rescue (a 3 or 4 year old feral), Chumley, to our other cats here: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/246803/...-already-have-2-cats-help-please#post_3232436

If I were in your shoes, I'd keep them confined to the smaller space in the basement they originally had. I'd consider obedience training with the dog, and I would start scent swapping beds/brushes between the cats right now. I'd rub the existing kitties with clean rags (preferably not washed with scents and no fabric softener or dryer sheets), and put those under the new/foster kitty food dishes, and I'd do the same for the new/foster kitties under the existing kitties' food dishes. I'd "scent up" a few more rags. After interactive play with my kitties, I'd put treats down on "new" kitty rags. I'd do the same for the existing kitty scents on rags for treats after play with the new/foster kitties. Get them used to each others' scents, get them used to the scents in their space AND associating that scent with "good" things they love. :rub:

After a week or two of this, I'd swap some pee and poop. I know you won't know whose is whose, but I wouldn't worry about it. The idea is just to get everyone used to new scents in their space, and to de-sensitize them to it.

If obedience training for the dog is out, when you feel ready to bring one of the new/foster kitties upstairs, I would confine the dog somewhere. I'd ensure I have a LOT of vertical space available for the cats as they live in a 3D world, and this will help with the dog when it comes to that, and it helps with reducing stress when re-establishing the new kitty hierarchy. I'd bring one kitty up at a time, I would make NO big deal out of it, I would NOT call the attention of the other kitties, and I would stick to a room that's used a lot by everyone, but I would at a minimum buy baby-gates to at least help prevent fleeing to somewhere unknown if kitty gets scared.

I would establish a "play time" routine with the new/foster kitties. I would bring one upstairs at this time and attempt to have that play time in the new space. I wouldn't make the first "exploration" "play time" - whatever it turns out to be - longer than 10 - 20 minutes.

Do they have crates? Do they use them as a safe space? If they're scared of crates, or you can't hold and carry them comfortably (meaning they're fearful being held still), I would put out crates now, spray them with Feliway, maybe put a little catnip in there, and leave them out and open (and the doors either off or secured in an open position) so that crates aren't scary, making it easier to bring them up and downstairs through this process.

I would bring them into the territory they will be making theirs, not bringing your cats (or dog) into their safe space. I would limit the time spent there, and just gradually lengthen it. If one or more of your kitties is in the room, make sure you have toys and treats at the ready, because again, the point is not the cats "meeting" each other, but associating each other with good things, and just learning to share the space. Concentrate on YOUR kitty(ies), reward them for being them ( :lol3: ), and praise them to high heaven for not reacting to the other cat. Or if they hiss, or slink and hiss, just try to distract them with treats or play. If they redirect - praise them to high heaven. If they don't, just let it go.

Now - without being able to close doors to a room, there's always the possibility that kitty will flee, and you'll have a cat hiding in your home somewhere. Just do what you can to keep doors closed to prevent access to as many places as you can.

Please, feel free to ask questions, we love updates, and I hoped this helped.

Hello and Welcome to the site!! AND a BIG thank you for saving these babies. Laurie has given you wonderful and very helpful advice . I wouldn't add anything and totally agree with her. As for the dog, keep a long line on your dog at all times when you begin introductions and make them short, the introductions. Give a sharp correction, non verbally, by pulling sharply on the line every time he looks at the kittens, even a look. If you shout out a NO, this will startle the kittens at the same time and only add more stress from their point of view in regards to the dog. It is best to keep them confined until they are a bit older too and the basement is fine. I would not separate them but I would put that futon bed on the floor. Try to take away any hiding spots that you cannot reach. I kept my kittens in their safe room until they were about 6 months old. They were loose during the day when I could keep an eye out. At night, they slept in their room, safe and sound. I would not introduce any of the other pets right now until the kittens are a bit more comfortable with you and your BF. It could be too much too soon. I always find that many people want to rush things, everything. INtroductions to the family's other pets, rushing socialization, letting them out of their safe rooms too quickly, and not having enough patience overall. Slower is better in the long run for a lifetime of happy inter-pet relationships. Good first experiences are much more important. As Laurie suggested, bringing the kittens up to the other part of the house, when they fully trust you, is a good plan. You put the dog in another room or outside. Let the kittens meet and get to know the resident cats first before the dog comes into the mix. :nod: Then start with the dog intro. and training. Eventually, the dog will learn and should respect you as the alpha and quickly learn to leave the kittens alone. How quick these intros will go depends on how the kittens come along with you and your BF first. One thing at a time!! Best of luck and keep us posted.

Thank you both SO MUCH for all the suggestions!! 

The kittens were spayed/neutered 3 weeks ago, so THAT'S out of the way!    And yes, I can easily get them to come out for food and play.  In fact, the male (we named him Woodstock) is quite social, usually greets me when I go downstairs, and loves to be petted.  I'm more worried about the female (Fluffernutter; Fluff for short).

I will start with the scented rag trick to ease the integration with the other cats.  Interestingly, I think it'll be easier to get them used to the dog.  He knows his basic commands and if I keep him on his leash he'll be fine.  They haven't seemed to be too fazed by him as long as he can't corner them.  I've got to remember not to use a verbal reprimand as that's always my gut reaction...

They do have crates, one of which we've been using as a safe space, so that's a good thing.

Had a minor meltdown this weekend but am feeling much better now.

:lol3: Meltdowns Happen I still have them from time to time with my kitties and issues. Glad that you are feeling better. See, day by day, the kittens will adjust and so will you Woodstock (cute, cute name and so is Fluff :bigthumb sounds like he will be a bit more outgoing personality wise. Fluff - being a rincess: and all, might take some more convincing. Try some Temptation Treats! Kittens go nuts for those. Once she figures out what they are and how good they are, she might be more apt to come out of hiding for them. Woodstock sounds quite sweet and friendly and Fluff will take note of that :nod:. Might help her come out of her shell. They all have differing personalities. My Perla (rincess: :lol3 even at two years of age is still quite reserved and distant. But she has her adorable and cute moments and her own special way of showing how much she loves me. Just not a lap cat and does not come around to be pet. You just never know with cats!! The great thing about them is their uniqueness and that is why we need so many. :rofl:

We've been kind of hoping that Fluff will follow Woody's lead and figure out that we're "safe".  Not happening yet, but I think I do notice her letting down her guard a little more.  I did, one time, get her to purr.  It was when they were still in their small room; she was up on a ledge and I quietly walked over and started to stroke her with the wand from a play toy and she purred for quite a while, then took a nap in a chair and again let me pet her, this time with my hand.  Unfortunately it was the next day that the BFdecided they needed more exposure and they ended up having the run of the basement.  (Sometimes I could kill him...) Probably not the wisest move but it's a done deal now. 

Will get some of those Temptation treats tomorrow!

Hi! Thanks for caring for these little guys. You need to confine them. Giving them too much space they will just stay skiddish.