6 week old kitten euthanized for testing pos to FELV, mom is negative. How is this?

catwoman707

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At one of my homeless cat route stops last night I had a couple come up to me, he had wanted to talk to me and told me he works in the building in front of my feeding spot. They had trapped and fixed the 2 cats I had yet to TNR (the rest of this colony are done) and that the one small female he trapped had recently had kittens, which I knew about and was trying to find them.

Well he found 1 that was dead, and last night found the second kitten, who he took to the nightime emergency vet clinic, which I use often.

He emailed me this am and told me the kitten (who is approx 5-6 weeks old) had tested positive for FELV, yet when he had the mom spayed last week, she tested negative, as well as all that I have fixed at this spot.

The vet told him the chances of this being a false pos. were very low, and he should euthanize this baby. So he did.

This couple as well as myself are all heartbroken today, and I am struggling with how/why this vet would tell him it was unlikely for the test to be false.

How can this be??!
 

catsallaround

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I am thinking the father was positive and that is why the other kitten died.  And mom may have been to early to tell but since the kittens conceived they came out positive.  Sorry for your loss.
 

emilymaywilcha

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I am thinking the father was positive and that is why the other kitten died. And mom may have been to early to tell but since the kittens conceived they came out positive. Sorry for your loss.
That does not make any sense. Nobody ever talks about kittens being born sick because their dads were as far as I know.

More likely, it was a false positive. I can't believe any vet would say the chances of a false positive is very low for a test that is only 80 percent accurate. The probability of being a false positive is 20 percent, which is definitely not very low. I know this because after one of my cats got a positive result from his shelter vet, I read about FLV testing to learn about incorrect results. Later, he tested negative twice and I adopted him.

The opposite error - false negative for the mom - also is possible. Here's why: the virus stays dormant for a long time, so the mom could have been a carrier but not symptomatic yet. So a cat does not need to have symptoms to test positive for the virus.
 

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Oh how sad. :heart3: The saddest part is that there's really no point in even testing kittens for FeLV or FIV until they're over six months old, because they'll carry the antibodies if a parent was positive for a few months for sure. But if they fight off the disease, or never become infected, they'll subsequently test negative. This won't happen until after 4-6 months, which is why the six month marker is typically used (by people familiar with this).

But like the others said, it's possible it was from the father, or the mom was still "incubating" the virus when she was tested. Or it was just a false positive. Happens about 30% of the time (up to 50% in some of the literature on the subject).

I'm so sorry. :rbheart: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:
 

bigperm20

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Oh how sad. :heart3: The saddest part is that there's really no point in even testing kittens for FeLV or FIV until they're over six months old, because they'll carry the antibodies if a parent was positive for a few months for sure. But if they fight off the disease, or never become infected, they'll subsequently test negative. This won't happen until after 4-6 months, which is why the six month marker is typically used (by people familiar with this).

But like the others said, it's possible it was from the father, or the mom was still "incubating" the virus when she was tested. Or it was just a false positive. Happens about 30% of the time (up to 50% in some of the literature on the subject).

I'm so sorry. :rbheart: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:
I have read the same. I'm sorry for your loss.
 

emilymaywilcha

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I can't believe any vet would say a false positive is "very unlikely" for a test that is only 80% accurate. Twenty percent is a high probability of a false positive (kitten) or negative (mother). But there is a way the mom could give it to one kitten without being symptomatic: carrying the virus before it becomes active. I am thinking it is possible that happened and she was a false negative because the virus is dormant. Without doing the FLV test again on her, you may never know. Of course, I will not pretend to be an expert based on one cat I adopted 10 years ago.
 

just mike

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Oh how sad.
The saddest part is that there's really no point in even testing kittens for FeLV or FIV until they're over six months old, because they'll carry the antibodies if a parent was positive for a few months for sure. But if they fight off the disease, or never become infected, they'll subsequently test negative. This won't happen until after 4-6 months, which is why the six month marker is typically used (by people familiar with this).
But like the others said, it's possible it was from the father, or the mom was still "incubating" the virus when she was tested. Or it was just a false positive. Happens about 30% of the time (up to 50% in some of the literature on the subject).
I'm so sorry.
I am so sorry for your loss!  Laurie and the others have given good explanations.  I can't tell you how sorry I am 
 

emilymaywilcha

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The idea that the father can make kittens sick is interesting after all these years of only being told about the mother's illness. Does anyone know websites that explain it?

I agree with Laurie 6 weeks is too early to test because I read some cats fight off the infection without ever getting sick. That is one reason given for a cat testing negative eight weeks after testing positive. I also read vets should wait 8 weeks after a positive test to do a retest because if a cat fights off the infection, it takes that long to do so.
 
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bigperm20

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The idea that the father can make kittens sick is interesting after all these years of only being told about the mother's illness. Does anyone know websites that explain it?



I agree with Laurie 6 weeks is too early to test because I read some cats fight off the infection without ever getting sick. That is one reason given for a cat testing negative eight weeks after testing positive. I also read vets should wait 8 weeks after a positive test to do a retest because if a cat fights off the infection, it takes that long to do so.
I've thought a lot about this since my reply and I too think someone may be mistaken. I don't think the father being positive solely, would be enough to infect the kittens. The mother would have to either have FELV, or be a carrier. It's not a genetic disease. Thoughts?
 
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catwoman707

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I agree with everyone, and I'm really confused by this situation. I am going to attempt to call this particular vet in the next couple of days, just to hear her explanation.

I use this emergency clinic often with my rescue, and have a great respect for them, so I hate to sound like I'm second-guessing her statements and advising to euthanize.

I will try to play 'dumb' so it doesn't seem this way.

I am also in the middle of yet another situation, I pulled a mom and her 7, yep 7 newborns last weds, she had them on tuesday, they were going to be euthanized.

Since, mom is extremely sick, a bad uri is what it's looking like and of course I have her on Clavamox, but she is NOT caring for her teeny babies, so I am. As of this am I have lost 4, suspect losing another, and the 2 bigger ones are a whopping 2.1 ounce and 2.3 ounces...

FELV is pretty much the only thing I have not dealt with first hand, but now I am suspecting it's possible that mom is positive and this is why her babies are so darn small and not making it, despite my tube-feeding, etc.

What a nightmare.....my heart is so heavy, my husband's too. He's been right there with me, as much as it hurts him too.
 
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catwoman707

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Thanks Laurie, yeah, it's just awful. I'm going to take mom and kids to the emergencyy clinic today, she needs a covenia shot, the clavamox just isn't cutting it.

(the same clinic as in this original post where the kitten was tested and euthanized)

I will update as it goes. I'm expecting to lose yet another.......
 
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catwoman707

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Sorry for the delay, and thank you for asking. Right around this time of every year I feel overwhelmed and exhausted after the hurricane of kitten season hit and getting them all spayed, neutered, well for those who were sick, bottle babies are big now, etc etc. Now it's all about getting them all adopted, but the process def. takes it's toll...

That being said I hardly had room for the recent preoccupation and emotional madness caused by the momma and her babies. But of course that was the number 1 priority, regardless! You learn to drop everything else..

The vet I saw was my fave, she has the mindset as I do, we all adore the kittens, so innocent and sweet, cute little spunkies, but my heart really goes to the adults, they're the ones who are dumped, abandoned, and so on. They have felt sad/hurt/hungry.

We agreed, sadly that they babies were preemies, and I couldn't bare for another to suffer a slow death, so they were euthanized. They would not have made it, and with my tube-feeding and support, it was only prolonging the inevitable. I mean 1 ounce?..

She also was very convinced that momma could not pull through her illness, that she was too far gone, and to euthanize her as well.

I was shocked, it hit like a ton of bricks, I knew that she would not recommend this without reason. So I signed the consent form.

It took a whole 30 seconds of bawling and telling my husband 'this is not what I do!' and zipped out the door catching the vet and backing out.

She deserves a chance, I can not abandon her like she obviously was in the past. She is tame and very affectionate, so she was owned at some time. How did this poor cat get to this point, very sick, very sick. Her paperwork says "anemic, extremely emaciated, dehydrated, lethargic," and so on, her prognosis was VERY guarded.

For their files they want a name,  Hope popped into my mind. So her name is Hope.

She tested neg for FIV and FELV.

The vet had a difficult time hearing her breathing on the left side, so she might have pneummonia.

So Hope is here with me, oh btw she is actually a good sized cat, and weighs only 5 pounds. All I can do is what I'm doing, talking to her, telling her how I know she is sad about her babies, but she needs to get well, etc., giving her the Baytril, and I syringe feed her chicken baby food and water, I get about 70 cc's in her a day.

Waiting to see something, some sign of Hope...it's my best and all I can do for her.

I will take her picture and add it later.

So I got her the covenia shot, some Baytril pills, and bought lots of babyfood (chicken)
 

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So sorry for all this pain, and eveything is tightly crossed for the mother.  Did the vet give her some fluids as well as the Convenia?
 

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That appointment must have been a huge shock to you and your hubby. There is no way I could have been prepared for it if they were my mom and kittens. Thank God you were able to save Hope.


You only cried 30 seconds for a whole litter of kittens? Amazing. I cried several minutes when a vet told me my favorite cat's life was expiring. Don't try to stop the tears. Cry all you want, but do it with a cat.
 

otto

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I read that to mean it took her 30 seconds into her crying to realize she didn't want to give up on Hope. She had to save Hope, so the grieving for the little ones will have to wait.

Catwoman 707, please accept my prayers and all the vibes I can muster for Hope. I'm sorry about the babies, but they had no hope. Hope does, and if anyone can save her, I am convinced you are the one to do it.
 
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