What do YOU think?

I'm interested in hearing everyone's opinions on feline nutrition. You could possibly include in your posts a commercial pet food that you would recommend, the diet you think felines were specifically designed to eat, if you prefer feeding wet food, dry food, or raw food, what food your cat likes best and what you think would provide a cat with optimum health and nutrition. I'm really interested in hearing what everyone thinks and looking at the situation from different point of views.

My honest opinion is that cats were designed to eat meat, and meat only. That's why I think feeding grain free, veggie and fruit free, diets would be the best way of feeding a cat. As long as it is a complete and balanced diet. The commercial pet food brand that I would recommend is Weruva. For some reason, it's the brand I feel most comfortable with and most of the ingredients seem like things I would want my cat to eat. I do not buy the cans of Weruva with veggies and carrageenan in them, though so I tend to stick to Nine Liver and Paw Lickin Chicken.

Obviously, feral cats hunt rabbits, mice, voles, squirrels, and birds. You don't see them sitting around a campfire cooking their meat before they eat it. No, they eat their meat raw. Which is proof that kitties indeed can handle a raw diet. I think that felines were designed to eat raw meat. They have shorter digestive systems than ours and they have a higher acidity level so they can process the raw meat, unlike humans.

I totally prefer feeding wet food, because dry food is mostly derived from plant matter and wet food has much more moisture in it. Cats have a low thirst drive so they need moisture from their food. My cats really like Nature's Variety Raw, and Instinct canned, as well as Weruva. They also get a can of BFF as a fishy treat. :lol3:

I think the best, most species-appropriate diet is a raw diet, or high quality canned. Kitties need moisture. A raw diet is the closest option to nature, but canned is also another good option for people who don't really like the option of feeding raw.

What do YOU think?

Great topic Kitty! I agree with you on everything except the treats. My idea of a purrfect treat is Whole Life or Pure Bites (dehydrated meat) so the cat gets none of the extra stuff that is in BFF, only muscle meat with all nutrients intact. That does not mean it is wrong to feed BFF to any of your cats, of course, but I don't see wet food as a treat.

Therre is one thing I don't like about Weruva: they use sunflower oil instead of fish oil. Cats need fish oil. So I would add fish oil to the Weruva if there is any doubt NL and PLC have enough usable omega-3s. (Cats can't convert ALA to EPA and DHA.) Do you think this is necessary or do those recipes have the right amount of omega-3 for cats?

Cat nutrition is crazy confusing at times. I figured out about a year ago that wet was the way to go and I picked up a bunch of grain free food. For me wet-grain free was a must, as well as a real protein source, none of that by-product stuff. Since dealing with Loki's food allergies I've started the learning process all over again (sigh). Now I'm cutting out carrageenan too and thinking about introducing raw. I did fall off the wagon and bought some dry food because it was easier for my pet sitter. I'm not happy with that choice and feel guilty that I could be doing much better for them.

I've used all the "high end" brands - wellness, natural balance, nature's instinct, blue buffalo wilderness, Fromm, weruva etc.

I'm trying to use some of these up now and go to weruva, Fromm and raw. Currently having a tough time convincing my Loki to eat anything though.

Conclusion - Meat, cats are carnivores. Feed it to them. I like wet canned because it's convenient but I'm willing to do what's best for my babies.

PS. I love my vets but when it comes to food they really suck.

It is confusing isnt it, but it really should not be, its quite simple actually. We just need to feed out obligate carnivores what nature intended.

We feed an all wet high protein, grain free diet. I also feed some raw to my one willing cat, the other im still working on.

We feed Wellness, Evo, Weruva, Felidae, merricks and Felidae.  Cat food where I live is very expensive, and not many choices.

There are a couple other varieties I'd like to feed but they are just too costly, (Natures variety Instinct being one of them.) Its also too bad that the Weruva is not higher in calories

Considering my cat needs five days to eat one cup of kibble, I would not expect her to get too skinny by eating Weruva exclusively. The low calorie total can be a problem for some cats, but obviously not all of them. However, I would never give Weruva to a kitten or pregnant cat without adding calories to it.

Of course, that leads me to ask a couple more questions:

1. Is rehydrating freeze-dried treats and stirring them up in Weruva cans a good idea?

2. If a kitten can't get enough calories from Weruva, which wet food is almost as good?

These questions don't need to be asked if you are feeding a raw diet, but I am not ready for that yet.

EmilyMayWilcha said:

Considering my cat needs five days to eat one cup of kibble, I would not expect her to get too skinny by eating Weruva exclusively. The low calorie total can be a problem for some cats, but obviously not all of them. However, I would never give Weruva to a kitten or pregnant cat without adding calories to it.

Of course, that leads me to ask a couple more questions:

1. Is rehydrating freeze-dried treats and stirring them up in Weruva cans a good idea?

2. If a kitten can't get enough calories from Weruva, which wet food is almost as good?

These questions don't need to be asked if you are feeding a raw diet, but I am not ready for that yet.

Click to expand...

1. I would not mix the two Emily, they also digest at different rates. 2. Unfortuantely there is no "perfect food" but Wellness grain free would be my first pick.

Interesting thread.  I've been weaning my 4 slowly off kibble.  They've always had a wet/kibble diet.  I used to feed about a 70% wet to 30% dry ratio.  I personally feel an all wet diet is the best way to go for cats but that is just my opinion.  An all kibble diet, while sustaining, can cause too many issues in the long run to make it attractive to me.  My cats are at about a 90% wet now to 10% dry.  I measure the dry and put it in a timed feeder where it is spaced out 3 times a day, opposite of their wet meals.  This has worked well for me.  All of my cats drink a lot of water out of their fountains, they always have, so hydration was never a concern for me with a kibble diet.  I just feel that as they age an all wet, or mostly wet diet will help keep down the weight and help ward off obesity, diabetes etc. which are common in cats with all kibble diets.  I have too many concerns regarding a raw diet and not enough science or answers to sway me in that directions.  I'm not opposed to a raw diet, I just don't know enough to convince me it is the right way to go.  And please, no need for the raw discussion to come into play.  I'm just voicing my own personal opinions and experiences here

My cats eat Nutro Max Cat Indoor Roasted Chicken kibble.  Their wet diet runs a wide spectrum but mainly they eat Max Cat and Nutro Natural Choice wet foods.  I also buy other super premium brands to give them a variety of different flavors and textures.    
 

l'm still learning, and have just switched up again.

They now get all wet, with occasional raw and mice.

l rotate Tiki Cat, Weruva, Evo C+K, Innova C+K, Wellness GF, Wellness Core, Blue Wilderness, and Go! GF.

I just bought the Tiki, only 2 flavours (without carrageenan, lowest Ash) and when l opened the can the cats just about knocked me over. They really aren't all that interested in food, but they dove into this stuff up to the elbows. Definitely a hit.

We have only a limited selection of raw around here, so l bought some Boldraw rabbit to start. They wouldn't eat it till l mixed it in with the Tiki then they devoured it. l don't like that it contains kelp, but it's okay as a starter till l get more comfortable with the whole raw thing. 

As we say in the horse world, what works for one horse/owner/situation, may not work, for another.  Cats are individuals too, just as humans are, what one cat might do well on, another might not, there are just too many other factors involved. 

My vet would prefer I feed raw.  But it's just not for me, due to alot of reasons. Like NutroMike said, I also don't know enough about it either, and I have one, that no way in heck, is he going to eat it. 

There are brands mentioned in this thread, which I would never feed, and I could write a book on why one should run, not walk, from them, but its a personal choice, and one has to go with what works best for their cats.

I can tell you, from my own personal experience, and others that I know, why one should never feed a grain food.  Grains are carbs, carbs are sugars. Feeding grains causes many of the health issues we read about on the boards, and feeding a grain free food, will eliminate most of those issues. Grains cause tummy upset, IBD issues, and can lead to diabedies. By products are the left over anything, from the animal, including feet, beak, head, and can include euthinized cats and dogs, and, their collors.  Glutens cause tummy upset and IBD issues, its already been proven in people, hence, you see alot of "gluten free" products.

Grains are one of many, causes of urinary/crystals/bladder issues, its the biggest one.  For future reference, for any that might not know, if your kitty is blocked, you have 12 hrs to get them to a vet, or its too late.  I lived that nightmare. He is now on a grain free food, no more issues.

The reason pet food companies use grains and by products, is it is cheaper to produce, and they sell them in the grocery store, and that is for the convience of the consumer, they can offer them at a much lower cost, than the better quality foods, and for the most part, pet parents, just don't know, and/or  care, about the many issues that feeding a grain food can cause.  

After going thru that, with my crystal kitty, I did extensive research on cat nutrition.

Wet is better than dry. Wet keeps them flushed out, it should be mixed with water, so its real soupy, that is imperative, with a kitty that has urinary issues.

Not all kitties will eat wet. For those that won't, and I have one, my vet said to mix 1 teaspoon Gerber baby food, chicken or turkey only, with water, so its like a broth, twice a day.

Wet is also very expensive, not all, can afford to feed wet only, if you are feeding a better quality wet food.  That too, is a personal choice, what works best for you and your cat.

The reason vets push Hills Science Diet CD and Royal Canin SO, besides they sell it, and make money off it, lol, is because it is very high in salt. It makes the cat drink more water, which, is the object of the game, but can be accomplished in a much safer and less expensive way. There is no magic formula, in these foods, they are just ingredients, you have to look at the ingredients, which, are all grains.  And when a prev vet put him on Hills, and his crystals came back, I said something is not right, with this picture, and did extensive research.  

I feed Blue Wilderness chicken, its by Blue Buffalo. Its grain free, by product free, gluten free, soy free and low in salt. It also has the highest omega 3 & 6, and antioxidants. Their fur is soft and shiney, they run thru the house at warp speed, like crazy boys. I haunt the Blue Buffalo FB site, long story, and I see many posts from cat and dog parents, who say the same thing, they also say, it has eliminated or greatly reduced their other issues.

I feed wet in the morn, mixed with water, and dry at night. My crystal kitty gets wet twice a day. I would feed all wet, but with everything else going up and up and up, and health care ins, etc, I just can't afford it.  No more crystal issues, no more tummy issues.  

I also understand, that some, have less to work with, and cannot even afford to feed a better quality food. I know, that I tried that route, and some threw it up,  the others had to go to the vet, cost me more, in the long run, lol. I went back to Blue Wilderness. Not even going to mention that other brand, as it tends to incite a riot, lol.  

Great post, great discussion.           

My mom just raised an interesting point! Another reason educated vets may be endorsing Hills is because they know their foods aren't good and can cause illness, which may give the vets more money in the long run. But, any vet that truly loved animals would not do so.

kittylover23 said:

My mom just raised an interesting point! Another reason educated vets may be endorsing Hill's is because they know their foods aren't good and can cause illness, which may give the vets more money in the long run. But, any vet that truly loved animals would not do so.

Click to expand...

Nonsense. People would not go into the veterinary profession if they wanted animals to get sick and die. The reason vets endorse Hill's is the company handles most of their nutrition education in medical school. Hill's provides the textbooks. Hill's employees are guest lecturers. And it is Hill's that funds the vet schools. Blame the company, not the vets. If you don't believe me, read parts of the pet nutrition books I have.

kittylover23 said:

My mom just raised an interesting point! Another reason educated vets may be endorsing Hills is because they know their foods aren't good and can cause illness, which may give the vets more money in the long run. But, any vet that truly loved animals would not do so.

Click to expand...

:lol3: A cynic!

I agree with Emily - they just don't know better. I don't think any of them intentionally want their patients on food that keeps them patients.

Nutrition is a very confusing topic because animals are such complex systems.

To the first order, I think we all (cats, dogs, people, etc.) should eat the earth's bounty in an unadulterated state - meaning not processed/fortified.

That is what we have all evolved to eat.

Man does not have a handle on all the stuff that is contained in REAL food and how it interacts in the body. Every year we find chemicals in food that we knew nothing of before, but are seemingly beneficial (for instance flavonoids). What do we do with this info? Put it in supplements or fortify our crappy processed foods. Best to just stick real food, I believe.

This is why I think raw is ideal - this is what cats were evolved to eat.

BUT, there are animals that thrive on non-ideal (crappy) diets - some bodies are just better at handing the toxins/allergens/vitamin deficiencies than others - probably for genetic reasons.

Like I can't eat a piece of KFC without spending considerable amounts of time in the bathroom afterwards - obviously many other people do not have this issue.

To the the second order, I think there is a benefit to eating cooked food for all creatures. It kills bad microbes, it's gentler on digestion and it makes many nutrients more bioavailable. 

BUT, there are nutrients that are heat sensitive that are necessary - taurine being the most obvious example. So an all cooked food diet is not a solution.

To the third order, there are unknown benefits to cats eating a small amount of plant matter. We know cats are attracted to certain plants and there might be beneficial reasons that are not researched/understood. One of my cats likes tomato juice - I let her have some on occasion and she's fine.

So what does this all mean in terms of how I feed my cats? I give them a bit of everything to cover all bases and hope for the best.

I definitely agree with LDG and Emily - vets, by and large, love animals at least as much as we do. Because of their "training" at the hands of the pet food manufacturing companies, however, they think they have all the nutritional info they need and unless and until they encounter something that shakes that belief, they've no reason to doubt it. It's... ignorance (if I may use that term carefully), which is not much of a justification, but far from the active desire to see animals harmed.

Of course, they should all be aware by now of the shaky ethical ground they stand on when they profit from foods they prescribe and sell from their offices, but that's really a topic for another day.

I feed raw, prey model style (also called frankenprey). It is, in my opinion, the healthiest diet - excepting whole prey - that can be fed, benefiting the cat not just from a nutritional perspective, but also from an oral and psychological health aspect. It's also, hands-down, the least expensive method I've found. I literally cut my cat food bill in half when I switched from canned to home-prepared raw.

Two more thoughts... I understand what the original posters meant, but I'd like to expand on two little previous comments, just for those who aren't yet well-versed on the topic.

Cats don't actually need fish oil. If their diet contains an Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio that is too high in 6's (and many do), they'll benefit from an Omega 3 supplement; fish oil being the most-often recommended and used source (in part, because it's animal-based). (I happen to feed whole sardines once a week.) So, fish oil is a common vehicle, but it's the Omega 3's that the cats actually need.

And while going grain-free is good, you might do better to search for "low-carb" canned foods rather than "grain-free" canned products. Many companies are aware of the growing consumer dislike for grainy products, but instead of simply removing those grainy ingredients, they're replacing them with other, equally inexpensive and equally carb-laden and unhealthy products (such as potato). If you aim for low-carb, you'll won't get caught by those sneaky swaps.

Best regards!

AC

LDG said:

I agree with Emily - they just don't know better. I don't think any of them intentionally want their patients on food that keeps them patients.

Click to expand...

They are taught that the way to "treat" certain ailments is to feed a prescription diet. Why they can't see the conflict of interest when a pet food company study that "proves" their expensive prescription food treats an ailment is what I can't understand.

Auntie, some pet food companies that use the "grain-free" claim are low-carbohydrate. For example, Weruva has only 1% carbohydrate in the form of potato starch (used to replace carrageenan, not grains). So I am not worried about a little bit of potato in two of their chicken recipes. I certainly don't think potato starch has any nutritional benefit, but anything is better than carrageenan, so I don't mind seeing it in there.

Of course, you are right about some other grain-free cat foods. However, it is important to note wet food always has a lot fewer carbs than dry food because carbs are required to make kibbles.

Auntie Crazy said:

Cats don't actually need fish oil. If their diet contains an Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio that is too high in 6's (and many do), they'll benefit from an Omega 3 supplement; fish oil being the most-often recommended and used source. (I happen to feed whole sardines once a week.) So, fish oil is a common vehicle, but it's the Omega 3's that the cats actually need.

Click to expand...

Hi AC!

I'm pretty sure all Emily meant is that you can't believe omega 3 claims on commercial cat foods if the source is plant-based; it has to be animal-based for the cat to utilize the omega 3s in it. But good point of clarification for those not familiar with Emily's growing knowledge of cat nutrition.

Of course, my understanding is that the high heat process used in canning or creating kibble destroys the usable (added) omega 3s anyway. :dk:

mschauer said:

They are taught that the way to "treat" certain ailments is to feed a prescription diet. Why they can't see the conflict of interest when a pet food company study that "proves" their expensive prescription food treats an ailment is what I can't understand.

Click to expand...

They do learn a little bit from their professers, not just the pet food companies. Also, animal nutrition classes are available to undergrads or in the agriculture department, which pet food companies are not involved with. Pet food companies bring guest lecturers in for some of it but not all 20 hours. So the students might think they are learning good information because it is not all taught by the pet food companies.

Another possibility is the assumption because Hill's hires vets, that company must know what it should do when making pet foods. Why would they hire a vet and then not create recipes based on what cats and dogs really need? Of course, I am only speculating.

LDG said:

Hi AC!

I'm pretty sure all Emily meant is that you can't believe omega 3 claims on commercial cat foods if the source is plant-based; it has to be animal-based for the cat to utilize the omega 3s in it.

But good point of clarification for those not familiar with Emily's growing knowledge of cat nutrition.

...

Click to expand...

Fixed it for you.  ;-}  See the bold below.

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

...

Cats don't actually need fish oil. If their diet contains an Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio that is too high in 6's (and many do), they'll benefit from an Omega 3 supplement; fish oil being the most-often recommended and used source (in part, because it's animal-based). (I happen to feed whole sardines once a week.) So, fish oil is a common vehicle, but it's the Omega 3's that the cats actually need.

...

Click to expand...

EmilyMayWilcha said:

Auntie, some pet food companies that use the "grain-free" claim are low-carbohydrate. ...

Of course, you are right about some other grain-free cat foods. However, it is important to note wet food always has a lot fewer carbs than dry food because carbs are required to make kibbles.

Click to expand...

Absolutely.

AC

LDG said:

I'm pretty sure all Emily meant is that you can't believe omega 3 claims on commercial cat foods if the source is plant-based; it has to be animal-based for the cat to utilize the omega-3s in it. But good point of clarification for those not familiar with Emily's growing knowledge of cat nutrition.
Of course, my understanding is that the high heat process used in canning or creating kibble destroys the usable (added) omega- 3s anyway.

Click to expand...

Exactly! Because cats don't need whole fish I would only supplement omega-3s with fish oil (which is purrfectly safe because so little is used). What else would a cat need fish oil for?

The canning process can't kill fish oil I add manually to the food like salad dressing!