My general advice for everyone regarding nutrition

First off, I want to say this is not intended to upset anyone... This is just my thoughts and advice to everyone in general asking for advice on what to feed our precious furry purries.... On this site, members can only give their opinions and experience.  Nutrition and feeding will always be a sensitive topic because there are so many different opinions and thoughts. They will even say that your vet isn't a good source of nutrition advice... Some may even be correct. But, almost always, there is a nutrition expert available in your vets clinic, if it's a larger clinic and you can always ask to speak to them.  And I can guarantee you that someone on here will not "approve" of your choice or method of feeding your cat(s). 

However, it does not make them right.  It does not make you wrong.  And vice versa.  My advice is to do your own research.  Look at the ingredients/receipes/methods and even reviews as a lot of sites (such as Petco, Petsmart, etc) will have customer reviews on them (both the good, the bad and the ugly.  They don't delete them because they say something negative.)  If you, after your research and own judgement, feel this is a good food or a good brand, then go with your heart and never feel bad for doing what you feel is best for your baby.  (Believe me, a lot of people on here will try to do make you feel so, no matter how unintentional.) 

There is going to be negative "opinions" on EVERY type of feed available.  Some more than others but every possible way to feed, there will be a lot of negative feedback.  It's a topic you just can't win at really.  So, before posting please do your own research and if you feel your cats are benefitting from it and it's the best you can do, don't ask on here.  Only ask if you are willing to take some harsh criticism. 

Have a good day and be well and happy!

Corrections:

1. Very few veterinary hospitals have anyone who can be called a feline nutrition expert. That is a fact. They don't learn much about nutrition -and what they do learn, they learn directly from the pet food manufacturers. Feed Your Pet Right was written by human nutrition experts. One chapter of that book explains why vets can't offer good diet advice and tell people to buy bad pet foods. Not Fit For A Dog! was written by vets and provides another summary of how they learn anything about small animal nutrition.

2. Going with your heart or gut feeling is not always doing it right. What if I had a feeling that dry food is the best thing for Patricia? Obviously I would not be doing the right thing just because it was my opinion. The right thing to do is entirely based on facts, not opinions.

I am sure other people will try to convince me I am wrong because they have not read either of those books or Buyer Beware, which is written by the owner of www.truthaboutpetfood.com (Susan Thixton), who is not a vet but knows a lot about what goes into pet food and pet nutrition. I have the literature to back up my statements if anyone tries to tell me it does not matter if the food is wet, dry, or raw.

:lol3: Sound advice. But many start the process of research here. Or didn't think about doing research until reactions to their posts spur them to do so. And if it takes some criticism to get those little gray cells moving... then it was worth it, I guess.

LDG said:

Sound advice. But many start the process of research here. Or didn't think about doing research until reactions to their posts spur them to do so. And if it takes some criticism to get those little gray cells moving... then it was worth it, I guess.

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Yep, that is what happened to me. I only bought three books about pet nutrition because of your threads about the dangers of wet and dry cat foods, discussions about what good and bad wet foods are, and the Raw Feeding forum. Now I regret believing Wilbur's dermatologist when I could have researched regular cat foods online for one that is better than Hill's dry and Royal Canin wet d/d to tackle his allergies and obesity.

P3 and The King said:

...But, almost always, there is a nutrition expert available in your vets clinic, if it's a larger clinic and you can always ask to speak to them. 

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Actually, it really depends on your definition of "expert." The nutrionists working for the pet food companies designing these diets are generally considered "experts." :lol3: So whether or not you care about species-appropriate nutrition makes a difference on that definition of "expert" and what to expect. :dk:

And I can guarantee you that someone on here will not "approve" of your choice or method of feeding your cat(s). 

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And I don't think most people are looking for "approval." People are looking for information, and most people, I believe, want to feed to the best food they can within the lifestyle and the budget.

Yes, the definition of "best food" is qualitative. But I think most people active in the nutrition forum actively try to educate when it comes to feeding a carnivore, but are perfectly willing to work within the desires of what someone wants to feed.

Personally, I wish someone had challenged me to think about what it means that a cat is an obligate carnivore 10 years ago.

Every single thing you do--EVERYTHING--somebody will disagree with it. If you're secure in your belief (which you should be, if you're going to spend your life believing it), you don't care what other people think. But it's good to challenge yourself now and then to make sure you believe what you believe for the right reasons. And that's what forum discussions are for. If you don't enjoy the discussions, don't participate in them :dk:.

Willowy said:

Every single thing you do--EVERYTHING--somebody will disagree with it. If you're secure in your belief (which you should be, if you're going to spend your life believing it), you don't care what other people think. But it's good to challenge yourself now and then to make sure you believe what you believe for the right reasons. And that's what forum discussions are for. If you don't enjoy the discussions, don't participate in them.

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That can be said about any topic from litterboxes to declawing.

Actually I do care what other people think because I know if they think, "Dry food cleans a cat's teeth," despite the scientific evidence that isn't true, they are not feeding a complete and balanced diet designed for obligate carnivores.

Actually, you do learn nutrition in veterinary classes.  I have to take and pass with at least a B at least 3 nutrition classes.  Maybe that's not in every area... But, they do in my school. 

I just feel that, on this board especially, instead of being informative, many are very judgemental and enjoying telling people they're wrong or feeding their cats wrong.  Who are we to say so?  It's just a matter of opinion.  And just like with actual human children, we tend to "one up" or try to appear to do so on this board a lot. 

True people might start here on researching foods and diets but it's probably not the best place. Just like with kibble, some people think it's awful and the worst you can do for your cat... But, some cats don't like wet food and prefer kibble.  And just like with wet, some people think fish is the worst you can feed your pet and it shouldn't contain vegetables or fruit.  But, many many of the premium brands do... Including some frozen raw diets.  And some cats, like my Phoebe cannot handle wet CAT food at all.  And don't get me started on raw... Many feel it is the best for their cat but it is not recommended by many doctors and professionals for different reasons whether or not it's acknowledged.  I'm just saying this is a topic that no one can really win at.  There are flaws with every form of diet. 

And instead of trying to "one up" others and force our opinions, we should try to be supportive and informative without the judgements.  We all want to do the best we can by our kitties... Sometimes people on this site can seem very judgemental and harsh.  I am not saying I am perfect but we need to try to remember that sometimes our ways aren't what's best or will work for every kitty and every situation is all. 

P3, this isn't the first time you've complained about how interaction in the TCS nutrition forum unfolds. I'm not sure what thread or threads prompted your return and this lecture, but examples (links to threads) where "we" are being judgmental would be helpful.

I, for one, am unaware of people being judgmental in helping others.

And what do you mean, "True people might start here on researching foods and diets but it's probably not the best place." :dk: You mean this is a bad forum? Or forums are a bad place for learning about nutrition? :dk:

P3 and The King said:

Actually, you do learn nutrition in veterinary classes.  I have to take and pass with at least a B at least 3 nutrition classes.  Maybe that's not in every area... But, they do in my school.. 

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http://www.vetschoolblog.com/2010/05/18/why-i-wont-be-heading-for-the-hills/

LDG said:

P3, this isn't the first time you've complained about how interaction in the TCS nutrition forum unfolds. I'm not sure what thread or threads prompted your return and this lecture, but examples (links to threads) where "we" are being judgmental would be helpful.
I, for one, am unaware of people being judgmental in helping others.
And what do you mean, "True people might start here on researching foods and diets but it's probably not the best place."

You mean this is a bad forum? Or forums are a bad place for learning about nutrition?

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I am not complaining but it is interesting you go there right away.  It just goes to prove my point.  This shouldn't be a place to attack people.  And people shouldn't expect to be attacked.  We all love cats.  That is why we are here... True?  Well, it's a SUGGESTION only, not just here but all the boards that we try to be a little more consciencious about our posts or replys and how they come across.  This board especially comes across as very judgemental and negative a lot of the time. 

It's not a bad forum at all. It could help not only US all but the site and the kitties especially if we could try to be more supportive and friendly and not so condescending and negative.  That is all. 

I think the know-it-all attitude regarding a topic like this is a direct reflection of a lack of knowledge of the scientific analysis of complex, multivariate systems.

LDG said:

http://www.vetschoolblog.com/2010/05/18/why-i-wont-be-heading-for-the-hills/

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No offense, but this means absolutely nothing to me... First of all, it's over 2 years old and it's a BLOG... Someone opinion.  Not based on fact.  Secondly, I think I would know the classes are about nutrition when it contains it in the title of the class.  If you want to dispute it you can.  But, I know what classes I am required to take and what is an exceptable grade.  Thank you, though.  This again just proves my point... We can never just be supportive on this site.  Instead, some of us feel we have to discredit or prove someone wrong just because.  Again, thanks for proving my point. 

You are correct of course.   And perhaps people need to be more tactful when voicing their opinion. Or the other way around, people need to be less sensitive when hearing others' opinions. 

aeevr said:

I think the know-it-all attitude regarding a topic like this is a direct reflection of a lack of knowledge of the scientific analysis of complex, multivariate systems.

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Exactly, thank you.  Some are so concerned with being know-it-alls that they try to tear others down or look up irrelevant information that supposedly proves them right.  Why can't they just let it go and be supportive?  Why can't we just be friendly and understanding and then help that way?  You can't help being know-it-alls with the focus of being right.  That does no one, especially kitties, no good whatsoever.

P3 and The King said:

I just feel that, on this board especially, instead of being informative, many are very judgemental and enjoying telling people they're wrong or feeding their cats wrong.  Who are we to say so?  It's just a matter of opinion.  And just like with actual human children, we tend to "one up" or try to appear to do so on this board a lot. 

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This "one up" criticism I've never understood what you're talking about.

True people might start here on researching foods and diets but it's probably not the best place. Just like with kibble, some people think it's awful and the worst you can do for your cat... But, some cats don't like wet food and prefer kibble.

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And my child loves Captain Crunch and won't eat salad or vegetables. I, as her parent, can take action to change that. Or not. :dk:

 There are flaws with every form of diet.

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Amen.

yayi said:

You are correct of course. 

 And perhaps people need to be more tactful when voicing their opinion. Or the other way around, people need to be less sensitive when hearing others' opinions. 

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Again, yes.  All good points. 

P3 and The King said:

Actually, you do learn nutrition in veterinary classes.  I have to take and pass with at least a B at least 3 nutrition classes.  Maybe that's not in every area... But, they do in my school. 

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do you mind if I ask what they taught on the subject? Was it sponsored by a food company or just a general course on nutrition, with what cats need to eat and why? 

P3 and The King said:

I am not complaining but it is interesting you go there right away.  It just goes to prove my point. 

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Um, I asked questions, for clarification. What did you mean?

This shouldn't be a place to attack people. 

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Yet this thread is about how members of TCS, active in the nutrition forum, are judgmental, insensitive, unsupportive, and try to "one up" (or something). :scratch:

missymotus said:

do you mind if I ask what they taught on the subject? Was it sponsored by a food company or just a general course on nutrition, with what cats need to eat and why? 

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It's not just one animals nutrition, it covers livestock, exotics, domestics, etc depending on the course material.... There's animal nutritions I, II, & advanced.  Not sponsored by any food companies.  We do learn about different brands of pet foods, diets and feeding.  We learn facts and have projects and discussions about why we don't agree or do agree with certain diets.  It's all in all very interesting courses.  The instructors are supposed to be non biased and I think they do a very good job at doing so. 

LDG: My point is that picking apart a persons post just to be right on one point that stood out to you but may not be the entire post is hardly helpful.  It comes across as argumentative and like you have to be right and that's all that matters to you.  It makes people look like jerks.  I posted this post not to tear anyone's diets or way of feeding down or to be right, but to point out that maybe some of the ways we go about "informing" aren't so great or helpful.  Maybe being right all the time isn't the point.  Maybe being helpful and relevant is... And above all, supportive.  That is all.  Nothing to get upset about.