New Declawing?

I heard about something interesting concerning a new method of declawing. I know most people here are completely against it, and I have no desire to declaw my own kitten (mostly because I love when she climbs up my leg to kiss me  ) but my parents have always had their cats front paws declawed. The vet my family has always used NEVER would condone or perform a declawing procedure, and my mother always had to go someplace else. But about five years ago they started doing the surgery, and my mother got her kitten neutered and declawed. 

The reason the vet started doing them was apparently because of the new method they had - instead of removing a knuckle, it involves breaking the knuckle and letting it reset.( ) I've noticed huge differences in my parents older cat and this five year old cat; you can easily see all of the younger cat's little fingers, and he can pick things up. They look exactly like my kittens paws, and they play the same and can spread their little fingers out and move those last knuckles. The older cat, and the other cats I grew up with, had front paws more like....I guess what I would consider bunny feet? (Never actually had a bunny so I don't know how accurate this is  ) They can stretch their paws but the fingers definitely seemed shorter? and not used... I'm just curious if anyone knows what the differences are in these procedures. Never seen a declawed cat pick things up like this one! 

Again - not interested in the dangers of declawing, as I don't want my kitten going through it. Just don't want to ask the vet about it and waste time for my visit - Lord knows they charge enough!

It sounds gruesome to me.  A bit like breaking a child's fingers so it can't do somethng naughty with them.  Thankfully declawing is illegal here in the UK, and was almost never done before it was made illegal.

biscuit55 said:

The reason the vet started doing them was apparently because of the new method they had - instead of removing a knuckle, it involves breaking the knuckle and letting it reset.(

)

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Never heard of actually breaking a cat's toes as a means to "declaw", could your parents perhaps be referring to a tendonectomy? http://www.pawproject.org/faqs/

Tendonectomy or Tenectomy is a procedure in which the tendons in the toes are severed. The cat still has its claws, but is unable to control them. This procedure does not necessarily protect people from being scratched, and it is associated with a high incidence of abnormal claw growth and muscle atrophy. In a 1998 JAVMA article, Jankowski, et al., concluded that "owners should be aware of the high complication rate for both [tendonectomy and declawing] procedures and of the need for constant trimming of claws of cats that have undergone tenectomy."

Jankowski also reported that 55% of the cats having tendonectomy were still able to scratch with their claws to some degree, and that 10% of the cat's owners had the cats declawed after the tendonectomy procedure for this reason.

In March 2003, the AVMA stated that tendonectomy is "not recommended."

Dr. Wendy Feaga, a Maryland veterinarian, wrote in Veterinary Medicine (May 1998), regarding tendonectomy, "I hope this cruel practice is stopped immediately." She describes a post-tendonectomized cat that "had badly arthritic toes and did not move around comfortably. The toenails were thick and disfigured, and the toes were painful on palpation. I was horrified."

Robert Goldman, DVM, says, "Veterinarians who recommend tendonectomy for cats will tell their clients that they have to trim the cat's claws at least every week. If the client is going to have to trim the nails every week, why not just trim the nails and avoid the tendonectomy procedure all together?"

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If it was tendonectomy (which isn't new, and is Not Recommended by the AVMA), the OP would still be able to see the cat's claws, and probably would have said so. I'm not aware of any procedure that breaks and resets the cat's toes (and may I say OUCH!), and I'm not sure how that would remove the cat's claws. All de-claws remove the first joint of the toe, or else the claw grows back (the wrong way, very painful). So I'm not really sure what was done to this poor cat :dk:.

I also have always been 100% against tendonectomies ever since I first read about them because the whole purpose of declawing is so the cat has no front claws anymore and the regrowth causes paw infections. But a properly done onychectomy rarely causes claw regrowth and paw infections to my knowledge, or at least a lot less frequently. A tendonectomy is making the tendons that move the claws in and out useless so the claws cannot get out even if the cat tries. It also is more complicated than putting a laser on the toe or snipping the toe off with nail clippers, so the recovery is not shorter or less painful.

Willowy said:

If it was tendonectomy (which isn't new, and is Not Recommended by the AVMA)

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I sincerely hope the AVMA doesn't recommend any method of declawing.

Tendonectomy sounds disgusting! But no, this cat definitely has no claws and has full range of motion in it's little paws. The paws look and move exactly as a cat with claws, and it's been five years so I'm guessing there were no complications. No idea about the procedure other than that breaking/resetting   It could be there is just a more effective and better way to remove that knuckle? Or maybe every other declawed cat that I've seen had a botched job. I've honestly never seen a cat that had issues with a declawing procedure, and I've been told most aren't visible to humans, but this cat just seems..more catlike with his poor little paws. If they amputate a part of that bone, only the claw area, it really grows back? Like a lizards tail?   I've Google-d new declawing procedures and found zip, so I'm at a loss. 

biscuit55 said:

 this cat definitely has no claws

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Then they have to be doing more than *just* breaking the toes, otherwise how did the entire nail bed get removed?

OrientalSlave said:

I sincerely hope the AVMA doesn't recommend any method of declawing.

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Kind of. They aren't against it anyway. They say that all other options should be exhausted first, but that it's perfectly acceptable if you "have to". Not that anybody really listens to the AVMA, and vets continue to offer routine de-claws like it's nothing.

Yes, bone grows back. Otherwise broken bones would never heal. So the entire joint has to be removed or the bone will grow back. There are different ways to cut through that joint--scalpel, laser, nail clippers, etc.--but the basic concept is the same. It would be interesting to hear from the vet exactly what he does, although robbing a cat of his most basic defense is never right no matter how it's done.

http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/cathealthfaqs/f/declaw_info.htm

Especially this part

Declawing a cat is commonly done one of two ways: excisional method or guillotine (clipper) method. The excisional method removes all of the last bone (P3) of the toe using a scalpel or laser, the guillotine method cuts through this last bone of the toe.

The cat claw extends from the P3 bone, and it is analogous to the human fingernail extending from the tip of our finger. The excisional method removes the entire bone (P3), and is most commonly done using a scalpel blade. Some vets use laser and report less hemorrhaging. The guillotine method uses a nail clipper than severs the P3 bone in half, removing the claw and distal (end) part of this bone, sometimes cutting through the toe pad as well.

I don't have declawed cats so never looked into the types except know laser vs old school.  Also skill of vet matters.

I always thought of laser and scalpel as two different methods because with a laser, there is less pain and bleeding and the recovery time is shorter.

catsallaround said:

 The guillotine method uses a nail clipper than severs the P3 bone in half, removing the claw and distal (end) part of this bone, sometimes cutting through the toe pad as well.

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It must be this. Near as I can figure anyways. Minus the toe pad thing.. How strange! I never knew there WERE different methods, so hearing about it was definitely interesting. He must have meant the break the last knuckle in half and take away the claw part, leaving the rest to reset? Ugh, gross. 

EmilyMayWilcha said:

I always thought of laser and scalpel as two different methods because with a laser, there is less pain and bleeding and the recovery time is shorter.

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The AVMA website cites studies saying that complications are higher with laser surgery :dk:. I guess if it makes you feel better to think that there's less pain and shorter recovery time, knock yourself out. But the evidence suggests otherwise.

Anyway, lasers used in surgery ARE scalpels. They're just laser scalpels instead of metal scalpels.

Willowy said:

The AVMA website cites studies saying that complications are higher with laser surgery. I guess if it makes you feel better to think that there's less pain and shorter recovery time, knock yourself out. But the evidence suggests otherwise.
Anyway, lasers used in surgery ARE scalpels. They're just laser scalpels instead of metal scalpels.

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I am just saying what I was told about Wilbur's declaw surgery. (He was laser declawed before I adopted him.) If there are no complications, it probably does result in less pain, bleeding, and time at the hospital than a traditional onychectomy. The way it was described to me before he had the surgery was, ":It cauterizes as it cuts," resulting in less blood loss.

Less blood loss, yes, that's the main benefit of laser surgery. But lasers can also cause burns. Kind of a toss-up, really.

As for what vets say about de-clawing, of course they'll tell you whatever you want to hear so they get their $$$$. When I had Scrappy and Sammy neutered and went to pick them up, the vet tech told me they didn't have any bleeding from their paws at all! I told her I hoped not because neuters don't cause paw bleeding (and I freaked out thinking the vet "accidentally" de-clawed my babies. But he didn't, thankfully). But that really tells me that the vet tech automatically says that to everybody, regardless of what actually happened.

I would not make a blanket statement about all vets. Certainly some will lie for financial reasons but there also are honest vets.

Your vet must have meant to say no bleeding in the cat's butt.

No, the vet tech very much meant to say that they had no bleeding from their paws, because every other cat in that day for a neuter was also de-clawed, and she assumed they had been, too. And when I went in the back, one of those other cats was screaming and thrashing and smearing blood all over the cage while coming out of the anesthetic. . .what do you want to bet she told his owners?

"I guess if it makes you feel better to think that there's less pain and shorter recovery time, knock yourself out. But the evidence suggests otherwise.

Anyway, lasers used in surgery ARE scalpels. They're just laser scalpels instead of metal scalpels."

I agree to that!

When I picked up my feral I got a he did great and was awake soon after looking for atttention.  I looked at the tech and said well my guy came in a trap and has tried attacking me for 2 nights.

Man I would have been so nervous walking back after hearing THAT.  I like one vet alot more cause she will tell me up front how it really went.  If the cat screamed the entire time it is going to have no voice and may not want much food vs is the cat in that much pain.

i haven't heard anything about it.  of course i don't look anything up on it so i wouldn't be a good person to ask.  it seems like just another new thing, like a new way to pierce ears or do body modifications.  or abortions. lol.  it's all the same in the end, more or less.

now if they could breed a cat with permanently blunt claws that never needed to be clipped, i'd look into that.

my mother bred siamese cats and she always told me that people who declawed their cats were lazy and not dealing with the real problem.  i'm not saying she was right, i'm just saying that's all i've ever heard so i would never consider it.  she said the same thing about de-barking a dog or removing fangs from any animal.  if the animal didn't come that way, it probably wasn't supposed to be.

cinderflower said:

I haven't heard anything about it. Of course I don't look anything up on it so I wouldn't be a good person to ask. It seems like just another new thing, like a new way to pierce ears or do body modifications or abortions. LOL. It's all the same in the end, more or less.

Now if they could breed a cat with permanently blunt claws that never needed to be clipped, I'd look into that.

My mother bred Siamese cats and she always told me that people who declawed their cats were lazy and not dealing with the real problem. I'm not saying she was right. I'm just saying that's all I've ever heard so I would never consider it. She said the same thing about debarking a dog or removing fangs from any animal.  If the animal didn't come that way, it probably wasn't supposed to be.

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Your mom is entitled to that opinion and that is fine with me, but I think there are other reasons people get their cats declawed. There may not be any very good reasons, but I am sure there is another one that may or may not be as bad as just being lazy.