still trying to figure out how much to feed the cat now that he's on wet food.

matts mom · Jul 19, 2012

Getting him to eat more wet than kibble is no problem at all, as he prefers wet and digests it better. now my only challenge is to find one that's nutritionally sound so that I feel comfortable letting the dry slip out of his diet. also he seems to be always hungry on wet...I don't know if that's because it's not so dense, or just that he really likes it and wants more and more. I'm feeding him his wet food in 3 feedings now so he doesn't have to stay hungry for long.(enough for an 8lb cat to allow some calories at the end of the day to leave dry food down for him overnight)he's 12lbs. Matt likes to eat every few hours, he's a grazing cat, ant I can't leave wet food out overnight. If I mix some water into his wet food it seems to hold him longer...I started out doing that because of the heat. It was so hot here I was worried about him dehydrating so I put him on a mix of wet food and water, and he liked it so much I decided to make it part of his regular diet.....that's how I got to where I am lol. It would be easier to go back to dry, but he's doing SO WELL with the wet, I'd rather just figure it out.

Besides his Dry food is 20%fat, and the wet is only 5% fat and he's getting pudgy. in the 5months I've onwned him he went from sking and bones to pudgy tummy.a few more years on kibble, and he'd be downright fat

.

California Natural is the canned food...it says feed 1/2 can per day per 6-8lbs body weight

Wholesome Blend Easy To Digest is the dry it says for normal cat feed 5/8( I translated that to (2/3 for the sake of my kitchen scoops) ...................................................................................................................................................I'm feeding him about a half a can a day split into 3-4 feedings(some days he's really active so begs for food more)and at night I put down 1/4 cup of dry to hold him through the night

kittylover23 · Jul 19, 2012

When my kitties were on canned, I always fed them one can (5.5oz) daily. It seems maybe half a can isn't enough for your kitty?

matts mom · Jul 20, 2012

Maybe it's not...it certainly doesn't hold him long. I definitely have to feed him more often on wet food. I wonder if the rice in the formula has anything to do with him getting hungry again? maybe he'll stay full better if I get him something that's meatier. I tried this one because it was suggested by the store owner based on his sensitive tummy, but if it's not filling him, another brand is in store for him.

fair2middling · Jul 20, 2012

Matts mom said:
Getting him to eat more wet than kibble is no problem at all, as he prefers wet and digests it better. now my only challenge is to find one that's nutritionally sound so that I feel comfortable letting the dry slip out of his diet. also he seems to be always hungry on wet...I don't know if that's because it's not so dense, or just that he really likes it and wants more and more. I'm feeding him his wet food in 3 feedings now so he doesn't have to stay hungry for long.(enough for an 8lb cat to allow some calories at the end of the day to leave dry food down for him overnight)he's 12lbs. Matt likes to eat every few hours, he's a grazing cat, ant I can't leave wet food out overnight. If I mix some water into his wet food it seems to hold him longer...I started out doing that because of the heat. It was so hot here I was worried about him dehydrating so I put him on a mix of wet food and water, and he liked it so much I decided to make it part of his regular diet.....that's how I got to where I am lol. It would be easier to go back to dry, but he's doing SO WELL with the wet, I'd rather just figure it out.

Besides his Dry food is 20%fat, and the wet is only 5% fat and he's getting pudgy. in the 5months I've onwned him he went from sking and bones to pudgy tummy.a few more years on kibble, and he'd be downright fat .

California Natural is the canned food...it says feed 1/2 can per day per 6-8lbs body weight

Wholesome Blend Easy To Digest is the dry it says for normal cat feed 5/8( I translated that to (2/3 for the sake of my kitchen scoops) ...................................................................................................................................................I'm feeding him about a half a can a day split into 3-4 feedings(some days he's really active so begs for food more)and at night I put down 1/4 cup of dry to hold him through the night

I have a stupid question, are the cans that you are using 13.2 oz or 5.5 oz? If the cans are 13.2 oz & your feeding 1/2 a can a day + 1/4 cup of dry that would be approx. 300+ cals a day, perhaps cut back the dry to 1/8 ( 2 level tablespoons not heaping, or one level coffee scoop not heaping )

emilymaywilcha · Jul 20, 2012

fair2middling said:
I have a stupid question, are the cans that you are using 13.2 oz or 5.5 oz? If the cans are 13.2 oz & your feeding 1/2 a can a day + 1/4 cup of dry that would be approx. 300+ cals a day, perhaps cut back the dry to 1/8 ( 2 level tablespoons not heaping, or one level coffee scoop not heaping )

Your question is not stupid. However I have a much better idea: don't buy any 13.2 ounce cans because they are guaranteed to contain BPA. (Source: Buyer Beware by Susan Thixton.)

matts mom · Jul 20, 2012

fair2middling said:
I have a stupid question, are the cans that you are using 13.2 oz or 5.5 oz? If the cans are 13.2 oz & your feeding 1/2 a can a day + 1/4 cup of dry that would be approx. 300+ cals a day, perhaps cut back the dry to 1/8 ( 2 level tablespoons not heaping, or one level coffee scoop not heaping )

not a stupid question. the can I am feeding are the larger cans, I didn't see much point buying small cans if I would be feeding him wet food daily. I sat down with the calories on the bag, and the calories on the cans and your count is about right, he's eating about 300 calories/day...which *should* be right for a 12 pound cat based on the approx25calorie/pound formula I found online. 1/2 can of canned is about 200 calories. What I don't understand is why he seems so hungry, and I am coming to think it may be that the food is not dense enough to fill him. I first started him on wet food with Friskies, and he was not hungry all the time, only since I got this stuff from the health food store. I gave him Friskies today, and he didn't seem as hungry......must find a denser food......

ldg · Jul 20, 2012

A couple of ideas for you. Perhaps look for low-carb (grain-free is a start, but not all grain-free foods are low carb). This type of food is more "satisfying" for a cat. This one is easy to use: http://www.scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html

If you go to the manufacturer websites (or just use the information from the can), it's easy to compare what you are buying versus other options you have. Low-carb canned foods include

By Nature 95% meat foods - approximately 6.5% carbs : http://www.bynaturepetfoods.com/productpages/95percentcannedcat.php
Merrick's Before Grain - approximately 2.5% carbs: http://merrickpetcare.com/merrick-before-grain-cans.php
Nature's Variety foods - approximately 2% carbs: http://www.naturesvariety.com/Instinct/cat/can/chicken

The problem with carbs is that cats are not efficient at utilizing the energy generated from them. They're good at utilizing energy from meat-based proteins and fat. So they want to eat more when a food has a decent amount of carbs, and the carbs pack on the weight. This is often why kitties eating only dry food gain weight. Dry food tends to be higher carb than wet foods (though there are plenty of wet foods with a lot of carbohydrates).

As to keeping him satisfied overnight, what some people do is buy ice cube trays for the canned food, open the cans, and basically make "wet food ice cubes." You can put these out, and they'll dethaw so he can eat them later.

ldg · Jul 20, 2012

Matts mom said:
not a stupid question. the can I am feeding are the larger cans, I didn't see much point buying small cans if I would be feeding him wet food daily. I sat down with the calories on the bag, and the calories on the cans and your count is about right, he's eating about 300 calories/day...which *should* be right for a 12 pound cat based on the approx25calorie/pound formula I found online. 1/2 can of canned is about 200 calories. What I don't understand is why he seems so hungry, and I am coming to think it may be that the food is not dense enough to fill him. I first started him on wet food with Friskies, and he was not hungry all the time, only since I got this stuff from the health food store. I gave him Friskies today, and he didn't seem as hungry......must find a denser food......

Actually, that 25 calories per pound thing usually winds up with fat cats, unless they are VERY active. My cats range in size from 7 pounds to 16 pounds (yep, Billy's fat

). Most are clumped in that 10.5 pound to 12.5 pound range though (I have 8 cats). Those cats all ate about one 5.5 ounce can of food a day. Those cans ranged in calories from 180 to 225 calories per 5.5 ounce can.

From my experience and many others here on TCS, it seems that MOST 10-12 pound adult cats need one 5.5 ounce can of food if it has around (give or take) 200 calories. :nod: I suspect 300 calories per day is too much for your kitty, which is why he was gaining weight.

Just FYI, when I switched my cats to raw food this past January, that issue of being satisfied between meals (overnight - from last feeding to breakfast) went completely away. And they eat even less raw than they did canned. The most any of my cats eats a day is 4.5 ounces. So there is definitely something to your kitty not feeling satisfied. Rather than changing amounts, I suggest you try changing brands. Or adding different brands to the rotation of foods you feed him. Providing a rotation of brands and proteins within them is always a good idea anyway, IMO.

matts mom · Jul 20, 2012

LDG said:
Actually, that 25 calories per pound thing usually winds up with fat cats, unless they are VERY active. My cats range in size from 7 pounds to 16 pounds (yep, Billy's fat

). Most are clumped in that 10.5 pound to 12.5 pound range though (I have 8 cats). Those cats all ate about one 5.5 ounce can of food a day. Those cans ranged in calories from 180 to 225 calories per 5.5 ounce can.
From my experience and many others here on TCS, it seems that MOST 10-12 pound adult cats need one 5.5 ounce can of food if it has around (give or take) 200 calories.

I suspect 300 calories per day is too much for your kitty, which is why he was gaining weight.
Just FYI, when I switched my cats to raw food this past January, that issue of being satisfied between meals (overnight - from last feeding to breakfast) went completely away. And they eat even less raw than they did canned. The most any of my cats eats a day is 4.5 ounces. So there is definitely something to your kitty not feeling satisfied. Rather than changing amounts, I suggest you try changing brands. Or adding different brands to the rotation of foods you feed him. Providing a rotation of brands and proteins within them is always a good idea anyway, IMO

I know exactly what made him pudgy...it was the 20%fat in his kibble. I have been feeding him the proper amount for a 10lb cat even as he gains weight and he just keeps gaining weight....even though I shook a little food off the scoop like the vet said. I'm hoping that switching his food will help him loose the weight again while he's young and active

ldg · Jul 20, 2012

You might want to do a little reading on cat nutrition.

http://pets.webmd.com/cats/guide/cat-food-101-what-you-need-to-know-about-feeding-your-cat

In a study that analyzed feral cat diets around the world, it was found that "their daily energy intake from crude protein being 52 %, from crude fat 46 % and from N-free extract only 2 %." (N-free extract is carbohydrates). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22005434

As fat typically has double the calories of protein, this means that a food that is 20% fat provides about 40% of the calories - about what a feral cat naturally eats. On a dry matter basis, a feral cat diet is 22.8% fat. Kibble is usually about 10% moisture. Adjusting for that, the kibble you were feeding your cat was just about spot-on for the right amount of fat.

Cat nutrition and caloric needs are not the same as a human's. But for both, portion control is important.

:dk:

emilymaywilcha · Jul 20, 2012

In my experience, the begging for wet food is psychological: Wilbur waited several minutes for wet food every time he saw me or Mom in the kitchen, but eventually he gave up and ate the kibbles. Patricia's my only cat now, but she begs for treats every time she sees me in the kitchen. So I always thought cats just love the smell, taste and texture of wet food as much as I love chocolate.

matts mom · Jul 21, 2012

so it's not so much that he's hungry, but that he really likes the food? well that makes me feel better, because I was starting to worry I'd have to put him back on an all kibble diet...at least with that I know what I'm doing....measure the appropriate amount and leave it there for him to eat when he wants it. no spoiling, no hungry begging cat. Wet food is confusing, so I've never fed it as more than a treat before. I only started to get him more water in his diet, because it was so hot here

fair2middling · Jul 21, 2012

Matts mom said:
so it's not so much that he's hungry, but that he really likes the food? well that makes me feel better, because I was starting to worry I'd have to put him back on an all kibble diet...at least with that I know what I'm doing....measure the appropriate amount and leave it there for him to eat when he wants it. no spoiling, no hungry begging cat. Wet food is confusing, so I've never fed it as more than a treat before. I only started to get him more water in his diet, because it was so hot here

Just like us, we tend to overindulge when we like the flavor,texture especially if it's right in front of us. Food is the ultimate "drug", it's a bonus that he prefers wet food, may not seem like that now though! Yea, I know about hot it was 115* last week.

ldg · Jul 21, 2012

Matts mom said:
...Besides his Dry food is 20%fat, and the wet is only 5% fat

I missed this when I posted yesterday. Actually, you can't directly compare dry food and wet food with components on a % of total basis. Here's why.

You have a bowl with 1/2 cup of dry oatmeal in it. It is 100% oatmeal.

You have a bowl with 1/2 cup of dry oatmeal in it. You add 3/4 cup of water to it. That bowl is now 25% oatmeal.

So to compare the protein, fat, fiber, ash, and carbohydrates between wet food and cat food, you have to mathematically remove the water from both to compare protein and fat on an apples-apples basis.

As an example, the California Natural chicken & brown rice wet food has this guaranteed analysis:
( http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products/1011 )

Crude Protein (Min) 9.0 %
Crude Fat (Min) 6.0 %
Crude Fiber (Max) 1.0 %
Moisture (Max) 78.0 %

Once you remove that 78% moisture, this is what the California Natural wet food looks like:

Crude Protein (Min) 40.9%
Crude Fat (Min) 27.3%
Crude Fiber (Max) 4.5%

....and assuming the ash content is 2.5% (though not listed, that is a typical amount in wet foods), the carb content is 16%.

emilymaywilcha · Jul 21, 2012

Matts mom said:
So it's not so much that he's hungry, but that he really likes the food? Well that makes me feel better, because I was starting to worry I'd have to put him back on an all kibble diet...at least with that. I know what I'm doing....measure the appropriate amount and leave it there for him to eat when he wants it. No spoiling, no hungry begging cat. Wet food is confusing, so I've never fed it as more than a treat before. I only started to get him more water in his diet, because it was so hot here

If hunger was the issue, he would have had the same behavior before you started buying cans. You don't have to put him back dry food. Give him half of a 5.5 ouce can in the morning and evening to and slowly reduce the amount of dry food unti he learns wet food is a meal, not treat.

matts mom · Jul 22, 2012

I got him a 95%meat food this week, instead of the california natural, and gave him that today. 5.5oz can split in half. he ate well and didn't beg or anything

I am happy that the only time he came asking for meals was at his normal feeding times. so either the natural was chocolate, or it was not dense enough, but one way or the other he responds really well to less food more meat

emilymaywilcha · Jul 22, 2012

Which 95% did you feed him?

matts mom · Jul 23, 2012

yesterday it was GO NATURAL chicken flavour. today he'll try Nature's Variety instincts Duck. He likes that too. He eats anything I give him, though I got a look at the receipt and the duck is really pricey so I'm thinking that's probably a treat. he likes chicken flavoured foods, and ocean blends I've noticed. seems to go for chicken best. Sometimes when I roast a chicken I will give him a piece off the breast and he loves it. I could get away with feeding him 3 times a day if he needed it, though with the 95%meat, he doesn't seem to, so I'm happier to leave him at his old feeding times(sort of) He wakes me up at 5:30 to play, and I end up having to put him in the basement after a half hour of meowing.....I figured out that if I drop a tbsp of wet into a saucer and put it downstairs I can bypass the entire annoyance and just leave him downstairs to wait for us to get up. it's made mornings easier, so I just give him that much less at breakfast time lol. So he's eating about 5.5oz at 5:30am, 9:30am, and 8pm with dry food down in case he needs more, but he barely touches it now

still trying to figure out how much to feed the cat now that he's on wet food.

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