All about probiotics

emilymaywilcha · Jul 16, 2012

I know the number of live cultures is important and some are better than others, but otherwise know nothing about what to look for. Also, what type of food do they go with - dry, wet, raw, anything? Are they necessary for all cats or just those who have specific medical conditions?

ldg · Jul 16, 2012

Here's a good overview: http://www.medicinenet.com/probiotics/article.htm

And a study in cats as re: acidophilus http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16740094

IMO, and I'll provide more information later, but ESPECIALLY cats on kibble or canned need probiotics.

ldg · Jul 16, 2012

Here is Dr. Becker's (Mercola) take on probiotics: http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...e-your-dogs-best-defense-against-disease.aspx

More from Dr. Becker: http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...-radically-boost-your-pets-immune-system.aspx

Also from Mercola - why you don't want prebiotics: http://healthypets.mercola.com/site...ics-that-are-a-total-waste-of-your-money.aspx

If you want studies in humans, because there are more of them, let me know. But these links should address your questions.

Personally, I look for 10 billion active cultures (the minimum recommended for a human) on the advice of our vet. I use one that has a combination of acidophilus strains and bifidus strains. I buy them from the refrigerated section of the health food store from a company with a quality reputation. I believe this increases the chance that I'm buying live cultures, although Dr. Becker says they still help even if they're not live.

Based on the studies in humans, I provide them daily to all the cats (and DH and I take them), not just those with health issues.

Ideally they're taken on an empty stomach. I don't worry about that for the kitties, I don't want to pill them. I think they're essential for cats on any diet, and I definitely recommend that someone planning to transition to raw start using them a week or two before transitioning if they're not already using them, because the gut flora is all out of whack from the quality (or lack thereof) in canned (cooked) foods.

violetxx · Jul 16, 2012

Very informative Laurie, thanks!

I've noticed that many dry foods also contain Enterococcus faecium as well as acidophilus. I'm wondering what the difference is between the bacterial species..if any?

I did not know that the following ingredients commonly found in dry foods are Prebiotics!! Interesting.. and sneaky!

'Another confusing thing about prebiotics is they are commonly referred to as fiber because they are non-digestible. Prebiotics are actually complex sugars, and the most common source for them in inexpensive pet food is dried beet pulp. In better quality brands, they're often listed as fructo-oligosaccharide, chicory root, or garlic.'

emilymaywilcha · Jul 16, 2012

Garlic? That is one thing that should never be in cat food.

ldg · Jul 16, 2012

Interestingly, there was a study done in 2003 of some pet foods claiming to contain probiotics: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC340078/

This is the abstract:

Nineteen commercial pet foods claiming to contain probiotics were evaluated. Selective bacterial culture was performed to identify organisms that were claimed to be present. Twelve diets claimed only to contain specific bacterial fermentation products, which does not necessarily indicate that live growth would be expected, but these products also included the term “probiotic” somewhere on the package, suggesting that live, beneficial organisms were present. No products contained all of the listed organisms, while 1 or more of the listed contents were isolated from 10 out of 19 products (53%). Eleven products contained additional, related organisms including Pediococcus spp, which was isolated from 4 products. No relevant growth was present in 5 (26%) products. Average bacterial growth ranged from 0 to 1.8 × 105CFU/g. Overall, the actual contents of the diets were not accurately represented by the label descriptions.

I remember reading that Enterococcus faecium should not be given to cats - I couldn't remember where or why. But this study includes (at least some of) the information on why it should be avoided:

Enterococcus faecium was the most commonly isolated organism and has been reported to have probiotic properties in vitro and in vivo (14,15). However, concern has been expressed over the use of enterococci, because they can be opportunistic pathogens and probiotic strains of enterococci are able to transfer the vanA gene; the gene responsible for vancomycin resistance (16,17).

(emphasis added)

This is why I just use a human acidophilus+bifidus supplement. :lol3:

ldg · Jul 16, 2012

Oh wow - on 911 Vets, I just found this article, linking Enterococcus faecium with urinary tract infections and a confirmed case of kidney failure: http://www.911vets.com/index.php?path=news&nid=12

carolina · Jul 16, 2012

LDG said:
Interestingly, there was a study done in 2003 of some pet foods claiming to contain probiotics: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC340078/
This is the abstract:
I remember reading that Enterococcus faecium should not be given to cats - I couldn't remember where or why. But this study includes (at least some of) the information on why it should be avoided:
(emphasis added)
This is why I just use a human acidophilus+bifidus supplement. :lol3:

Actually, Enterococcus Faecium is a good probiotic.... and proven so -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21689152

Pilot study Study shows it reduces mortality related with the Herpes Virus:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19201238
and from Winn http://winnfelinehealth.blogspot.com/2009/10/probiotic-supplementation-in-cats.html

On Immune-system, in puppies:

In conclusion, the results reported in this study support an adjuvant effect of Enterococcus faecium SF68 at both mucosal and systemic levels in puppies, an effect that could be relevant for improving protective immune responses against various infections during the critical weaning period as well as at later stages in life. This is particularly relevant if the long-term (up to 1 y of age) effect on antibody responses is considered. The precise mechanisms by which SF68 stimulates immune functions and boosts immune responses to a vaccine clearly deserve further investigation. http://jn.nutrition.org/content/133/4/1158.long

BTW, the particular Enterococcus faecium SF68 Is patented by Purina, and found on Fortiflora. E.Faecium is not very easily found in probiotics.... After reading quite a few positive studies on it, while shopping around for a probiotic, it was one of the reasons why I decided on Proviable-DC (besides my vet's recommendation).....

carolina · Jul 16, 2012

The only one that showed protection against Salmonella:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11230939

detmut · Jul 16, 2012

to get around the refrigeration requirement, you can buy stabilized probiotics. this is the best place to buy in my opinion:

http://www.iherb.com/

and this is the one to buy in my opinion:

http://www.iherb.com/Healthy-Origins-Probiotics-30-Billion-CFU-s-7-Vcaps/19521

ldg · Jul 16, 2012

Well, apparently like with most things, there are contradictory studies. Specifically as to E. faecium SF68:

In this study, we did not observe an influence of colonization with E. faecium on the innate immune response to P. aeruginosa pneumonia. E. faecium, in addition to the most frequently used genera Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium, is one of the lactic acid bacteria (LAB), referred to as probiotics [26]. Probiotics are non-pathogenic bacteria that are used as functional food components with claimed health-promoting effects. Several studies have been performed to investigate the role of intestinal E. faecium on the immune system in young animals. In two studies performed by Scharek et al. [27], [28] the influence of intestinal colonization by a non-pathogenic E. faecium strain, SF68, on the immune system was tested in piglets. They found a reduction in the systemic humoral immunity (total serum IgG) and a reduction of CD8+ cells in the intestinal epithelium of the upper jejunum. Contrarily, Benyacoub et al. [29] found a stimulatory effect of colonization by SF68 on the immune system, on mucosal and systemic IgA and IgG levels in dogs. In kittens, Veir et al. [30] found no influence of E. faecium colonization on the specific or nonspecific immune parameters, besides an increased percentage of CD4+ cells. Recently, we found mice first colonized with VRE and subsequently undergoing intestinal perforation by cecal ligation and puncture (CLP) had improved infectious and inflammatory outcomes of polymicrobial peritonitis compared to mice undergoing CLP without the presence of E. faecium (31). The mechanism by which VRE colonization and/or infection influenced the host response to polymicrobial peritonitis remains to be established.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0006775

carolina · Jul 16, 2012

LDG said:
Well, apparently like with most things, there are contradictory studies. Specifically as to E. faecium SF68:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0006775

Ok.... So it has no effects against pneumonia..... That doesn't make it a bad probiotic though.... Right? :lol3:

ldg · Jul 16, 2012

:lol3: This was the relevant part: "In kittens, Veir et al. [30] found no influence of E. faecium colonization on the specific or nonspecific immune parameters, besides an increased percentage of CD4+ cells."

My concern is that most probiotics with E. faecium just say "Enterococcus faecium," they don't specify it's SF68. And if that's owned by Purina - if it's a product that isn't made by Purina, is it THAT E. faecium? And given that it is described as an "opportunistic" and not always beneficial ... if we're not buying a Purina product, what are we getting?

http://www.nfid.org/content-conversion/idarchive/enterococcal.html

I know that when I tried to use Fortiflora as a probiotic, it made Chumley's diarrhea go from horrible to explosive. :dk:

emilymaywilcha · Jul 16, 2012

Carolina said:
OK . . . So it has no effects against pneumonia. That doesn't make it a bad probiotic though, right?

Of course my main concern is salmonella. I don't think anything is a bad probiotic just because it does not prevent pneumonia. But if it doesn't prevent salmonella, it definitely is a bad probiotic IMO.

emilymaywilcha · Jul 16, 2012

LDG said:
This was the relevant part: "In kittens, Veir et al. [30] found no influence of E. faecium colonization on the specific or nonspecific immune parameters, besides an increased percentage of CD4+ cells."
My concern is that most probiotics with E. faecium just say "Enterococcus faecium," they don't specify it's SF68. And if that's owned by Purina - if it's a product that isn't made by Purina, is it THAT E. faecium? And given that it is described as an "opportunistic" and not always beneficial ... if we're not buying a Purina product, what are we getting?
http://www.nfid.org/content-conversion/idarchive/enterococcal.html
I know that when I tried to use Fortiflora as a probiotic, it made Chumley's diarrhea go from horrible to explosive.

What was wrong with Chumley?

Human food labels are the same way: they tell you how much cholesterol is in the box, but not the amounts of HDL and LDL seperately.

carolina · Jul 16, 2012

LDG said:
:lol3: This was the relevant part: "In kittens, Veir et al. [30] found no influence of E. faecium colonization on the specific or nonspecific immune parameters, besides an increased percentage of CD4+ cells."
My concern is that most probiotics with E. faecium just say "Enterococcus faecium," they don't specify it's SF68. And if that's owned by Purina - if it's a product that isn't made by Purina, is it THAT E. faecium? And given that it is described as an "opportunistic" and not always beneficial ... if we're not buying a Purina product, what are we getting?
http://www.nfid.org/content-conversion/idarchive/enterococcal.html
I know that when I tried to use Fortiflora as a probiotic, it made Chumley's diarrhea go from horrible to explosive. :dk:

I guess Purina has the rights for the Animal use in the US - look: http://www.cerbios.ch/I/biological-product/probiotic-pharmaceuticals-sf68
I have a feeling that what caused the explasive diarrhea on Chum Chum was not the probiotic, but all the junk on Fortiflora - I believe the very first ingredient is Animal Digest? I totally agree that as a probiotic, Fortiflora is not good. But E. faecium is still a good strain IMHO.

Now - I posted a study about E. Faecium (not labeled SF68) and Salmonella - did you read that one? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11230939

carolina · Jul 16, 2012

EmilyMayWilcha said:
Of course my main concern is salmonella. I don't think anything is a bad probiotic just because it does not prevent pneumonia. But if it doesn't prevent salmonella, it definitely is a bad probiotic IMO.

It actually showed affects against Salmonella - it was the only strains from the ones studied that was effective. I posted the study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11230939

otto · Jul 16, 2012

Mazy cat and Queen Eva each take a ProViable DC daily, Queen Eva gets hers with her first meal of the day, Mazy gets hers with her last meal of the day.

Jennie does not take a probiotic daily. But the other week she had something weird going on with some very smelly poop, and pooping more than once a day. I started her on the probiotic daily for a week, and whatever the trouble was, it cleared up.

emilymaywilcha · Jul 16, 2012

PubMed loves to write abstracts like only professionals read them.

carolina · Jul 16, 2012

EmilyMayWilcha said:
PubMed loves to write abstracts like only professionals read them. :doh3:

Vitacanis((R)), a probiotic preparation containing a Lactobacillus acidophilus, an Enterococcus faecium and a Saccharomyces cerevisiae, has been developed for the prevention of intestinal disorders in dogs and cats. In the present study, these microorganisms were tested jointly or singly during experimental infection of gnotobiotic mice with Salmonella Typhimurium. Four experimental groups consisting of animals given probiotics jointly or singly and a control group consisting of germfree mice were used.

Among the three probiotic components of the commercial product Vitacanis((R)), E. faecium was the only one that provided protection against challenge with S. Typhimurium.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11230939

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All about probiotics

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