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PA Helmet law changed

post #1 of 18
9/4/03 at 9:29am
Thread Starter 
OK today the new PA helmet law went into affect. For anyone who doesn't know, it's a law that gives motorcyclists the choice of whether or not to wear helmets when driving. Here's a news story:

http://www.thederrick.com/stories/09042003-4002.shtml

I can't believe that they are allowing this!! Helmets not only protect motorcyclists but also people that may have an accident involving one! Helmets save lives. And how come car drivers have to wear seatbelts and motocyclists have no required safety devices? And as far as kids under 21--I heard that it's only a $25 fine and no points for riding w.o a helmet..

I have a thing against motorcycles, but only because of the people that give them a bad name.. The ones that weave in between tractor trailer trucks and drive 90 mph. I know not all of them are like that, but even so they have no protection without a helmet. What if there is an unfortunate accident between a car and a motorcylist w.o a helmet and the motorcyclist dies? Would that be vehicular manslaughter? I think that they should sign a waiver that if they die from head injuries while not wearing a helmet that should eliminate any legal right to press criminal or civil charges..

I mean geeze it's for their own good, can't people realize that?? Yet they make ATV/dirt bike riders wear them, and they can't even go that fast and they are NOT driving with 3k pound vehicles.. UGH I am sooo mad now I have to deal with these people who pass me on the double line everyday on my way to town now w.o helmets, and hope I don't have to see their melons crushed in at the next turn! It is bad enough they let stupid irresponsible and immature people operate any kind of motor vehicle let alone a motorcycle--and now they allow them to go helmetless? AHHHH!!!! And there are biker bars everywhere here with "bike night" and then we have to try and avoid them drunk driving on the way home.. ugh.

I'm sorry if I offended any bikers because I know that not all are like this, but I think that in any case helmets should be mandatory. I mean these people have kids, parents, etc. that really wouldn't want them to die just because they didn't feel like wearing a helmet.. I'm just praying that no one dies today because of this..
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post #2 of 18
9/4/03 at 10:02am
Just like drivers, there are good and bad bikers too (meaning how the ride, not their morals or whatnot ). It drives me nuts when I see these 20-somethings on their crotch rockets weaving in and out of traffic like they own the whole world.

For a time, I hung out with a lot of real bikers (Harley riders - not the rice rockets....can you tell I hate those things? ). I can tell you the other side of the argument, the one the media won't ever tell you.

The matter of how safe helmets are is not clear cut like seat belts. Helmets have been known to kill or at least paralyze people. The biggest problem is that the riders wear ill-fitting helmets which is worse than no helmet at all. The problem is at the point where the base of the helmet and neck meet. If the helmet doesn't fit properly, this part of the helmet can slam into the neck and break it.

I knew one guy, Dave, who wiped out on his Harley without a helmet on a mountain road and skidded head first down the road. His scalp was literally hanging off of his head. His leathers were torn to shreds and he had quite a bit of road rash on his shoulder, arm and But other than a lot of stiches and him looking like he'd been hit by a truck for a while, he was fine. The EMTs who arrived with the ambulance told him that if he had been wearing a helmet, even a properly fitting one, he probably would have died because of the angle that he landed on his head.

I've never heard "They wouldn't have died if they weren't wearing their seatbelts." Helmets are still up in the air.
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post #3 of 18
9/4/03 at 10:11am
Thread Starter 
my stupid exbf tells me constantly that if we go off a bridge into water we will drown because of the seatbelts--which is why he won't wear one. Also, beside of my height, seatbelts kinda cut into my neck and one time I wrecked and had a welt across my neck for weeks.. If it had been worse it might have strangled me or atleast maybe sliced a vein or something.. There are good and bad points about both, but if someone is willing to ride a motorcycle (which lets face it, is more dangerous) they are taking a risk in the first place.. I have read articles that complain about helmets and maybe if someone made some innovations into improving helmets they could fix the problems. Or just outlaw bikes on roads all together.. I seriously don't understand why someone would put their life in danger just to drive a motorcycle.. What is so great about it?? Please someone tell me! I like quads but I like airconditioning more!
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post #4 of 18
9/4/03 at 10:34am
So the safety of helmets is still up in the air. What I don't understand is the young guys that ride the crotch rockets (LOL Heidi, I love that term) wearing next to no clothing (tank tops and shorts). I'm sure your friend's leather clothing reduced the injury he did to his skin. One afternoon I was at a light behind a youngish man (early to mid 20's) who had horrible scars on his arms and legs that looked like road rash. How could I see it? He was wearing shorts and a tank top. If he didn't learn the first time....
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post #5 of 18
9/4/03 at 10:35am
Michigan has a helmet law and it is so odd when you go into Wisconsin, which does not have one and see people riding without a helmet.

It does not matter how good a driver you are - accidents happen and if you are not wearing a helmet, the chances are that you are not going to make it.

My good friend always wears a full helmet (meaning it covers his mouth). He hit a deer going 60 MPH. He went over the handle bars and skidded on the pavement for quite a while (you can imagine the speed in which he was traveling). He finally stopped by hitting a tree. If he didn't have a helmet on he would have been dead. He decided to get chaps after that accident. His jeans were in shreds and his legs all bloody. He is the best driver, but you can't control wild animals or people in other vehicles who are not paying attention.
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post #6 of 18
9/4/03 at 10:49am
Quote:
Originally posted by Nora
...He is the best driver, but you can't control wild animals or people in other vehicles who are not paying attention.
That is exactly the thing that I worry about. Friends of mine refuse to wear seatbelts and say they won't get into an accident because they are safe drivers. On the roads today, it doesn't matter if you are a perfect driver, it's the crazies around you that you have to watch out for.

I'd like to see statistics showing no helmet vs. helmet accidents and see what the true accident reports show you. I'm still on the side of wearing a helmet and I always do when on a motorcycle, law or no law.
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post #7 of 18
9/4/03 at 11:17am
As someone who has ridden Harleys for over 30 years, I have mixed feelings and mixed uses for helmets. I am originally from South Carolina-Georgia state line area, SC has no helmet law for riders and passengers 21 and over, GA does. I wear my helmet in traffic, and where it is required by law. If I am out on a road where I feel safe without one, off it goes. If we are riding in a pack where it is legal to not wear one, I never wear it then. There are many instances where helmets have saved laws, as well as many instances that the heavier helmets have bounced on pavement and resulted in severe neck injuries or paralysis. I have a big sticker on the front of my helmet that says "DO NOT REMOVE THIS HELMET UNTIL I AM EXAMINED BY A DOCTOR" just in case. Mine is a half helmet, the same kind worn by most motorcycle police officers. I think there should be a clause in each state that does not require a helmet, that someone should have to have a motorcycle license for at least a year before having the right to ride without one. In SC anyone under 21 caught without one is faced with a fairly hefty fine, if they are a passenger, the driver is also fined. I think this is as it should be.
Do you know what you call someone on a crotch rocket without a helmet?
An organ donor.
Do you know how to draw a picture of one?
With a chalk outline.
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post #8 of 18
9/4/03 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally posted by valanhb

For a time, I hung out with a lot of real bikers (Harley riders - not the rice rockets....can you tell I hate those things? ).
Real bikers only ride Harleys huh? That's the biggest load of crap I've heard all day. If I based what I considered a 'real biker' on the type of bike they rode then, based just on what I've seen today, all Harley riders would be overweight, balding, middleaged men that need to take that soup bowl they call a helmet off, peel off that black shirt with the eagle on it that is two sizes to small, take off the bandana with the skulls on it that your kid got for last Halloween, scrub down with lava soap and a brillo pad and get over the midlife crisis.


But I know better.

Real bikers ride for the joy of the ride. It's all about being on two wheels. Anybody, and I mean anybody, that has a motorcycle for any other reason is trying to be part of something they don't understand and something they don't deserve to be a part off.
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post #9 of 18
9/4/03 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally posted by annabelle33
OK today the new PA helmet law went into affect. For anyone who doesn't know, it's a law that gives motorcyclists the choice of whether or not to wear helmets when driving. Here's a news story:

http://www.thederrick.com/stories/09042003-4002.shtml

I can't believe that they are allowing this!! Helmets not only protect motorcyclists but also people that may have an accident involving one! Helmets save lives. And how come car drivers have to wear seatbelts and motocyclists have no required safety devices? And as far as kids under 21--I heard that it's only a $25 fine and no points for riding w.o a helmet..

I have a thing against motorcycles, but only because of the people that give them a bad name.. The ones that weave in between tractor trailer trucks and drive 90 mph. I know not all of them are like that, but even so they have no protection without a helmet. What if there is an unfortunate accident between a car and a motorcylist w.o a helmet and the motorcyclist dies? Would that be vehicular manslaughter? I think that they should sign a waiver that if they die from head injuries while not wearing a helmet that should eliminate any legal right to press criminal or civil charges..

I mean geeze it's for their own good, can't people realize that?? Yet they make ATV/dirt bike riders wear them, and they can't even go that fast and they are NOT driving with 3k pound vehicles.. UGH I am sooo mad now I have to deal with these people who pass me on the double line everyday on my way to town now w.o helmets, and hope I don't have to see their melons crushed in at the next turn! It is bad enough they let stupid irresponsible and immature people operate any kind of motor vehicle let alone a motorcycle--and now they allow them to go helmetless? AHHHH!!!! And there are biker bars everywhere here with "bike night" and then we have to try and avoid them drunk driving on the way home.. ugh.

I'm sorry if I offended any bikers because I know that not all are like this, but I think that in any case helmets should be mandatory. I mean these people have kids, parents, etc. that really wouldn't want them to die just because they didn't feel like wearing a helmet.. I'm just praying that no one dies today because of this..
For some reason, lots of people in this country have a problem with being told they have to do something. They always agure that it should be thier decision. Frankly, I believe a lot of people in this country aren't smart enough to think for themselves and we have to have laws like this to protect them from their own stupidity.

Helmets are our friends.
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post #10 of 18
9/4/03 at 4:40pm
.
LL
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post #11 of 18
9/4/03 at 4:42pm
...
LL
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post #12 of 18
9/4/03 at 4:53pm
I do apologize if I offended you Jason. You're right, a Real Biker is not about what motorcycle you ride, it's the mindset.

(But I have to say, there are so many "kids" who ride that type of bike just to be cool, who have no respect for the machine or the other drivers. I have seen more of that type of rider on the crotch rockets than on Harleys or Hondas or the bigger bikes. Just like with everything, though, it's the irresponsible idiots that people remember.)
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post #13 of 18
9/4/03 at 5:59pm
Quote:
Originally posted by valanhb
I do apologize if I offended you Jason. You're right, a Real Biker is not about what motorcycle you ride, it's the mindset.
No offense taken and no apology necessary. I just call it like I see it.
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post #14 of 18
9/4/03 at 6:04pm
There are old bikers and bold bikers but, there ain't no old, bold bikers!

I rode for years, with and without a helmet. AZ doesn't require helmets, for people over 18. How well I trusted the person, that I was riding with, dictated my helmet use. Of course, I'd NEVER get on a bike with an unsafe driver. Most of my biker friends are 40s to 60s and there's a good reason that they've lasted that long.
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post #15 of 18
9/4/03 at 8:07pm
Hmmmm.... I'll be allowed to go helmet less in PA because I passed an MSF course to get my license. The MSF course is a 3 day safety course that takes a complete newbie to motorcycling and shows you the ABC's of doing it. I was one of only 1/2 of the class to pass.

If you are 21 and have 2 years riding experience in PA, you can ride without a helmet... unless you have taken an approved safety class and are carrying the card to prove it.

Now, as for the helmet law in general. I like the idea that I have the "choice" to go without. I have a "right" do do what I feel to myself. We complain everyday that we are loosing our rights with all these laws that make us have to do something. Christ, look at all the warnings on things now, look at all the laws we keep passing while we don't enforce the ones on the books already. If people want to become Darwin Award Winners or wean out the gene pool, so be it.

Now, will I ever run without a helmet... I probably won't (as my BF would probably kill me and I don't feel like dying by getting my brains splattered all over the road), but I respect the people that "choose" not to.



Full gear: helmet, gloves, armored spandex pants under heavy jeans, a mesh jacket with full armor and boot. Need better boots though.
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post #16 of 18
9/6/03 at 6:06pm
My brother died by not wearing his helmet,Ted & I always wore our helments,and thank God because we had a wreck and would have died if we had not been. We both hit the road head first.My sister and her hubby also wrecked and she broke her shoulder ,him, his pelvis,Dr. said they would have died if not for wearing their helments.I am all for wearing helments.And in all these 3 wrecks people in cars were to blame,all said well i never saw the bikes! Bull, in NY you have to have your light on all the time!
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post #17 of 18
9/6/03 at 6:07pm
Oh and yes someday Ted & I will have a bike again,ours died!
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post #18 of 18
9/6/03 at 7:03pm
Here in Florida, there has been no helmet law for a couple of years. I ride, and I always wear a helmet and gear. The majority of riders I see who are ill-prepared to survive laying down a bike are Harley riders. Even when we did have a helmet law, the "helmets" Harley riders wore would have done little or nothing to protect the rider. Those tiny little skull caps are approved to protect against nothing. And what leathers? Many of the Harley chicks are in leathers that cover less than a bikini.

As far as who is more likely to buy it in an accident: riders of crotch rockets are more likely to be riding at excessive speeds and doing a lot of weaving. But Harley riders are 10x more likely to be going somewhere to load up on a few six packs and jump back on the bike.
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