cat health after vegan diet (18 years old at start of diet)

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carolina

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wolcar

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I'm a raw vegan and while I think it would be great if my cats and I could eat the same thing I would never do such a thing knowing that their bodies are different and have different requirements.  You said the cat was 18 - why even change his/her diet at this stage of the game? I think it's fantastic that you're making healthy decisions for yourself.  Does your cat have an illness or something that makes/made you want to change his diet so drastically at almost 19 years old?
 

whollycat

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I'm not sure, as OP hasn't posted yet, but I think he has kidney issues--was fed K/D food.
 

angels mommy

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I absolutely agree with every one!  In trying to find a good healthy wet food for my kitty, because of allergies, etc..   I learned the hard way.

I tried the Merrick's Cowboy Cookout, thinking it had so many great ingredients in it, but it had way to many veggies & fruit!

When I say I learned the hard way, he had diarrhea for 30 whole days!!!!

Thank God for Laurie (LDG) ( who also has a kitty that had the same Holistic Chinese Medicine diagnosis of

having to much damp heat in his body, so was chewing hot spots raw).

Fortunately, with her guidance, we finally got it under control!!!!!!!!
 

fair2middling

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IMHO, the original thread starter might have accomplished what she set out to do. Although all of the thoughtful replies have great info. We are in a age of tec.savvy kids,  prank phone calls are a thing of the past.
 

angels mommy

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IMHO, the original thread starter might have accomplished what she set out to do. Although all of the thoughtful replies have great info. We are in a age of tec.savvy kids,  prank phone calls are a thing of the past.
I think you may be right!  Notice she hasn't reappeared. Even if she didn't like what we were saying, you think she would have something else to say.
 
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hi purrson

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If y'all share this information with other people, vets, etc, and there yields positive results for pets, they could update and add vegan or vegetarian choices in veterinary clinics and this could lead to better vegan choices that taste good for humans (as someone who struggled to find the right vegan choices for taste). I've tasted baked meatless chicken that tastes better than chicken, and very good beef, but I think that this could lead to other better options.

This could mean longer lives for people, and less health problems (better wages for doctors and nurses (to make health even better) but less cost for health care (less people getting unnecessarily sick, but cynically living longer to continue supporting the health care system for themselves and the future, but happily doing so with <3 and health ;) lol), through better vegan choices that don't taste bad.
 

<3 to mommy's
 
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ldg

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Apparently you didn't read any of the replies to your thread? :dk:

I don't think anyone reading this thread will share any such information with vets, as cats are carnivores and should not be eating a vegan diet.

It's one thing to make the choice for yourself or your human family, but it seems the members of TCS do not feel it is appropriate to change a tiger's stripes, so to speak.


Br J Nutr. 2011 Oct;106 Suppl 1:S35-48.
Estimation of the dietary nutrient profile of free-roaming feral cats: possible implications for nutrition of domestic cats.
Plantinga EA, Bosch G, Hendriks WH.

Twenty-one of the twenty-seven studies reported small amounts of plant material being found in the scats, stomach and gut content of feral cats. Molsher et al.(59) reported that cats frequently consume vegetation (FO of 26·3 %) consisting mostly of a few strands of grass. The authors concluded, however, that plant material is a minor component of the diet of feral cats, as ingestion is likely to occur incidentally while foraging for invertebrates.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22005434
 
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hi purrson

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Apparently that's not my job.

My job is to present my side or information.

Animals who are carnivorous in the wild only hunt once every 2-3 weeks. They hunt because there is sparse vegetation in the climates in which they live, like the grass lands of Africa, and the cold tundra of the arctic. In climates where there is more vegetation many more animals obtain nutrition in herbavorial ways.
 
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Willowy

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Animals who are carnivorous in the wild only hunt once every 2-3 weeks. They hunt because there is sparse vegetation in the climates in which they live, like the grass lands of Africa, and the cold tundra of the arctic. In climates where there is more vegetation many more animals obtain nutrition in herbavorial ways.
That's not true of cats. Have you ever observed cats living a wild-type life (farm cats, feral cats, etc.?). They hunt constantly, killing about 5-10 small animals a day. And never raid the garden :lol3:.

Originally I thought you were interested in the healthiest diet for your cat. But now I think you're more concerned for your agenda than for your cat's health. I guess the best thing I can say is that at his age it won't be able to shorten his life too much.
 
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hi purrson

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I generally accept all animals, and find nature to be a very positive thing, and I support environmental causes and as much of a diversity of animals as possible.

I'm also very supportive of people in terms of health, and fitness related inquiry's.  I'm making these posts to establish something that I think is a real truth.

I'm not doing this out of the cat I have, but something I share with people, and also believing that it is a good solution for pets. If you see, by natures evolutionary habit animals adapt to new situations. Cats weren't always domesticated, when in the wild they are big cats that have different dietary needs.
 
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Willowy

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[quote name="hi purrson" url="/t/246432/cat-health-after-vegan-diet-18-years-old-at-start-of-diet/30#post_3234825] Cats weren't always domesticated, when in the wild they are big cats that have different dietary needs.[/quote]
Well, no, in the wild they're African Wild Cats, which are about the same size as domesticated cats, and have the same dietary needs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_wildcat

It's super if you think veganism is the best for humans. But cats are carnivores, and even if they adapt to some other dietary needs eventually, adaptation takes a very long time, and trying to feed a domestic cat a vegan diet now isn't going to turn out very well.
 

orientalslave

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Apparently that's not my job.

My job is to present my side or information.

Animals who are carnivorous in the wild only hunt once every 2-3 weeks. They hunt because there is sparse vegetation in the climates in which they live, like the grass lands of Africa, and the cold tundra of the arctic. In climates where there is more vegetation many more animals obtain nutrition in herbavorial ways.
That is so not true even of lions.  In lean times lions may only have a successful hunt that often, and any cubs usually die.  Being a lion cub is very hard - if the male is deposed while it's young the new male will kill it, if times are hard or it's born at the wrong time of the year (migrating herds not on the pride's patch) it will probably starve.  Very few cubs survive to maturity.

But for all cats of all sizes most hunts are unsuccessful.  If any cat, of any size, waited until it was hungry to hunt it would die of starvation.  What makes kittens so charming is their play is rehersing hunting as they stalk each other, so chase & trip and so on.

Lions don't hunt for a few days after catching something big and filling themselves almost to bursting, but lions can catch very big prey because of their pack nature and co-operative hunting tactics.  I guess you are also refering to wolves which are another pack animal and again can catch relatively large prey as a result, but being dogs are not obligate carnivores.

Domestic cats and wild cats of a similar size cannot go 2-3 weeks without eating, indeed going 2-3 days without eating can make some cats ill. 

And where on earth you got the idea that what is good (maybe) for people is good for cats...  I'm mystified.  And worried for your cat.

Think about it - at 18 your cat has lived longer than most do, on it's meat diet.  Clearly that diet suits that cat.
 

orientalslave

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BTW I found this on an Egyptian Mau website:
It has been estimated that a feral cat needs to kill approximately 1,100 small animals per year to survive
That's 3 per day - 3 mice for example.  And this is why the cat became domesticated - once humans had started growing cereals rather than leading a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, the stores of grain were a big draw to rodents.  Fortunately for us the rodents were a big draw for cats and so we ended up with domestic cats - the native small cats around Egypt that had moved to the most plentiful food supply in the area.

The origins of our domestic cat are probably Felis silvestris lybica, or mostly that species, so looking at what those cats eat today (I don't mean ones that have become feral on rubbish dumps and so on) will give a very good indication of what our own domestic cats are made to eat.

And surprise!  That cat eats small rodents, birds and other live prey, and it eats several times a day if it can.  It hunts every day.

PS are we all wasting time on someone trolling?
 
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otto

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Thank you and I hope you find this interesting
This is a very sick looking cat. This is what you call improved on the vegan diet? Poor Poor kitty. What a shame she has to be forced to die of malnutrition as it can be rather slow and dragged out.

I guess it's a good thing you started this thread since it shows plenty of reasons, including this picture, why cats should not be fed a "vegan" diet.
 
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luvmyparker

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I'm not doing this out of the cat I have, but something I share with people, and also believing that it is a good solution for pets. 
I am sorry but just because you believe it's a good solution for pets, doesn't mean it is. Regardless of how you feel, facts are facts. Cats are obligate carnivores, plain and simple. Have you talked to a vet about all this? I am quite certain they would tell you that meat is important for your cat. Part of owning a pet is making sure their dietary needs are met, regardless of whether we agree with it or not. Your kitty doesn't look so healthy in the the picture you posted.

No good can come out of forcing a 19 year old cat to eat a vegan diet. Poor, poor kitty is right!
 

pushylady

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I believe this thread serves as a useful argument for why cats shouldn't be put on a vegan diet.
Obviously the OP has every right to become a vegan themselves and to be a proponent of those views. However, forcing such a drastic dietary change like that on an obligate carnivore, not to mention a very senior cat, is highly controversial and unlikely to generate healthy debate amongst people who are very concerned about cat health and welfare.

It's useful to have information about cats' evolutionary history and their need for meat proteins, and a thread like this can be educational.
Please remember the site rules and refrain from personal attacks on the OP!
 
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