made a mistake/confused/guidence with food

Okay, I switch from Evo to a couple of different brands of other wet foods (Weruva, Merrick, By Nature).  My 16.5 lbs cat has been eating 1 can of evo (about 200 calories per can I believe) and some treats per day for most of his adult life.  I was incorporating the new food this week and was shooting for slightly less calories than what I was feeding him per day to help him lose a little weight. When I was feeding their last meal I notice how hungry they seemed. I ended up doing the math and it turned out he only got like 110 calories so I gave him another half a can of Weruva which brought him up to 160. He seems satisfied now.  (I do plan on starting to write it down so I can keep better track, especially during our weight loss).

Can anyone give me some type of guideline on how man calories I should feed him safely? I've read a few different ranges of calories per lb of weight. I guess he's on the lazier side (not too lazy) - I guess standard cat lazy - lol.  Also, I've been weighing him every couple of days.  I've just really started cutting his calories this week so there hasn't been a lot of weight loss yet but I will closely monitor. Just wondering if anyone give give me a good range of calories to stick between to start.

I've ordered some commercial raw for them but apparently it's backordered (ugh) but I'm pretty sure that goes by calories as well.

JMO, try aprox.20 cals per lb of ideal wt. so if cat should weigh 10 lbs try to feed aprox. 200 cal. Also cycle higher & lower cal. days of the week, something like Mon. cat gets 210 cals, Tues.cat gets 190 cals this will help keep the metabolism firing on all cylinders. this advice is JMO& it is always a good idea to consult your cats health care provider, rapid weight loss is never a good thing for man or beast.

I agree with mschauer. :nod: The range of calories per pound is so large, and SO dependent on each individual cat, I see no point in going that route. You know how many calories he was eating. I'd just start there and work down.

When I tried targeting a calories per pound for my cats in the switch from dry to wet, they gained weight. I used 20 calories per pound of cat. They only needed about 15. Except my fat cat Billy, who seems to have some kind of mutant metabolism. (And yes, we've had him medically checked). With the same amount of food, he weighs 16 pounds where the others weigh 11.5 - 12.5 pounds.

And when feeding raw, they'll need less calories because they "use" more of the food. I never checked calories of the food I'm feeding, but when I switched to raw, I just started at the low-end of the feeding guidelines (2% - 4% of body weight are the guidelines. I started at 2.25% for most of them and worked down from there).

I just looked up the calories per ounce of all the meats I feed them, added them all up and took an average (to get an idea for how many calories per day they eat - it averages out over the week). My cats that were eating 180 - 220 calories a day (one can of 5.5oz food: the foods I fed in rotation ranged in how many calories per can) are now eating about 140 - 160 calories per day to maintain the same weight. So much more of the food is bioavailable, I assume that affects the number of calories they need (meaning they need fewer, because they get more energy from the food :dk: ).

fair2middling said:

Rapid weight loss is never a good thing for man or beast.

Click to expand...

That means you don't want your cat to drop from 16.5 to 12.5 pounds in a year. Four pounds may not sound like much but that is about 1/4 of his weight.

EmilyMayWilcha said:

That means you don't want your cat to drop from 16.5 to 12.5 pounds in a year. Four pounds may not sound like much but that is about 1/4 of his weight.

Click to expand...

Why? It's safe for them to lose 1-2% of their body weight per week. Even if you use 1.5% per week, and base it on the new weekly weight, at that rate, a cat can safely go from 16 pounds to 12 pounds in 19 weeks. :dk:

LDG said:

Why? It's safe for them to lose 1-2% of their body weight per week. Even if you use 1.5% per week, and base it on the new weekly weight, at that rate, a cat can safely go from 16 pounds to 12 pounds in 19 weeks.

Click to expand...

The only reason Wilbur got a T4 test was he lost four pounds in one year. The vet explained for a cat, that is way too fast. The final diagnosis: acute-chronic kidney failure. And he was only tested for it because he lost four pounds.

I think unexplained weight loss is different than a cat on a diet :dk:. Really, any weight loss is bad if you can't tell WHY he's losing weight.

But, yeah, even if the cat only lost 2% of his body weight per month, that would still be 24% in a year. . .

Willowy said:

I think unexplained weight loss is different than a cat on a diet. Really, any weight loss is bad if you can't tell WHY he's losing weight.
But, yeah, even if the cat only lost 2% of his body weight per month, that would still be 24% in a year. . .

Click to expand...

I know it is not exactly the same, but Wilbur lost four pounds by eating a lot less. It was not like he lost weight despite eating.

Well, yeah, but if your cat is eating a lot less and you don't know why (if you're not restricting his intake), that's a cause for concern.

I will go that route - I will just decrease based on what I know they were getting. I guess I was getting confused by investigating too much about it.  Keep it simple, right?  I was also very scared to decrease too much (again from all the reading about the fatty liver thing).  I also didn't want them to be starving either. I HATE when I'm hungry so I didn't want to make them feel that way.  Yesterday I just didn't add up the calories right with all the new sized cans and calories that I would have ended up starving my babies had I not sat down and finally done the correct math, the poor guys.  I'm just not used to having a 5.5 ounce can of food only being about 100 calories. 

I do write down their weights every time I weigh to make sure they (he really) doesn't lose too much but so far our weight loss has been really slow, which is fine, but I have no real cause for concern since it's pretty slow, I guess.

I could only dream of my Ulysses being closer to 12 lbs - right now I'm just shooting for the 15lb range by November's vet visit.  My vet thinks it's too difficult to get a cat to lose weight (although not impossible). I got him from 18 to 17 last year, so if I can get him to 15ish by the visit, then we'll just go from there.

LDG- Is your 16 lb cat on a diet? or is 16lb okay for him?  Sometimes I wonder if I worry a little too much about my cat and 16 lbs may not be soooooo bad for him. He is a very tall and long cat.

wolcar said:

I will go that route - I will just decrease based on what I know they were getting. I guess I was getting confused by investigating too much about it.  Keep it simple, right?  I was also very scared to decrease too much (again from all the reading about the fatty liver thing).  I also didn't want them to be starving either. I HATE when I'm hungry so I didn't want to make them feel that way.  

Click to expand...

I have exactly the same concerns. As far as hepatic lipidosis (the fatty liver thing) as long as you monitor his weight and he doesn't lose more than 1-2% of his body weight each week he should be fine.

Yesterday I just didn't add up the calories right with all the new sized cans and calories that I would have ended up starving my babies had I not sat down and finally done the correct math, the poor guys.  I'm just not used to having a 5.5 ounce can of food only being about 100 calories. 

Click to expand...

I made a spreadsheet that tells me how much to give of each food, or mix of foods in the Weruva/by Nature case, at each meal. When I first got Mickey I only kept track of how much I was giving him by quantity. But that was because I knew each of the foods I was using had about the same number of calories per oz. Now that I'm using a mix of foods with different calories the spreadsheet makes it much easier.

I do write down their weights every time I weigh to make sure they (he really) doesn't lose too much but so far our weight loss has been really slow, which is fine, but I have no real cause for concern since it's pretty slow, I guess.

Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with slow and steady especially since he isn't obese. The only reason I'm trying to accelerate Mickey's weight lose is because he is a foster and the sooner I can get him at an adoptable weight the sooner he will get into his forever home.

Weruva is a low calorie canned option. :nod:

kittylover23 said:

Weruva is a low calorie canned option.

Click to expand...

I learned the hard way it is all about the amount of food a cat eats. If you feed the whole three ounces at every meal and the cat eats all of it, I doubt sufficient weight loss will occur.

Willowy said:

Well, yeah, but if your cat is eating a lot less and you don't know why (if you're not restricting his intake), that's a cause for concern.

Click to expand...

EmilyMayWilcha said:

I learned the hard way it is all about the amount of food a cat eats. If you feed the whole three ounces at every meal and the cat eats all of it, I doubt sufficient weight loss will occur.

Click to expand...

Sorry, but the energy of that amount of food matters. One 5.5 ounce can of Weruva has around 100 calories. Same with Earthborn Holistic's cans. A cat that's been eating 180 calories in a Nature's Variety 5.5 ounce can of food daily will lose weight and be hungry on one 5.5 ounce can of Weruva or Earthborn Holistic (or other 100 calorie cans). Hobo8 changed her cat from dry to wet, and he's been starving on that one can of Earthborn Holistic a day: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/246333/he-is-on-an-all-wet-diet-finally-but

wolcar said:

LDG- Is your 16 lb cat on a diet? or is 16lb okay for him?  Sometimes I wonder if I worry a little too much about my cat and 16 lbs may not be soooooo bad for him. He is a very tall and long cat.

Click to expand...

Some cats have large frames. But Bill isn't one of them, and the vet says his ideal weight is around 12 pounds, which makes sense, because his frame is about the same size as our other 12 pound kitties.

He was a starving 2-year old feral kitty when we rescued him and brought him inside full time. I was free feeding dry at the time. He gained weight over a two year period. (He weighed 14.5 pounds by then. He weighed 8 when we rescued him). We then rescued a kitty with allergies, and moved them all to wet food at timed meals.

I used the 20 calories per pound thing to figure out how much wet food to feed them as I had no clue how many calories they were eating, having been free fed dry. They all started gaining weight - Billy more than the others. I did adjust the amount of food I was feeding everyone, and then I started cutting back his food. But I wasn't policing bowls the way I should have, and in that period of a little over a year, he gained another 1.5 pounds. And the vet was not happy with me.

Billy's metabolism clearly operates a different rate. He's our youngest kitty, and our most active.

When I switched them to raw in January of this year, I fed him 2.25% of his ideal body weight - the same amount as the 12 pound cats. This is 4.5 ounces. He didn't lose weight. :scratch: So I slowly started cutting the amount of food back. And he didn't lose weight. We went to the vet for blood work. She explained that cats rarely become hypothyroid - if they do, it's kitties that WERE Hyper-T. We had him tested anyway, and everything's normal.

But basically his body seems to have gone into "starvation" mode. Just like a person dieting, their body adjusts to the new amount of food given for energy (which apparently happened while I was trying to cut him back on the wet food), and now their bodies require less calories to maintain the same weight. In people, you can lose weight when this happens with exercise. Revving up your metabolism with SUSTAINED exercise, or varying the rate at which you walk/run/whatever, but not for 10 minutes - for 20, 30, etc. minutes. And most people, because they're usually slightly dehydrated, you can "rev" up metabolism by drinking a lot of water. This makes your body both utilize and burn calories more efficiently. But having been on wet food for over a year already, Billy wasn't even mildly dehydrated, so adding more liquid to his meals won't do anything.

And cats are just not designed for sustained exercise. They do short bursts, and there is just nothing you can do to make them exercise for longer than that. But right now, he's eating 1 1/8 ounce of food at each meal, 3 meals a day. That's a total of 3.3 ounces of raw food a day. He still weighs 16 pounds. That amount of food is just 1.3% of his body weight. I cannot reduce it further. I can't raise it - now that his metabolism is where it is, he'll just gain more weight.

The vet said at this point, I just can't worry about it. Given he's on a raw diet - high protein, no carb - it's very unlikely he'll develop diabetes. We'll have to watch him for arthritis and other age-related problems associated with being overweight. Carolina's kitty, Bugsy, is also overweight. He's been doing well losing weight since the switch to raw, as she's been slowly trimming back the amount of food he eats. He started losing weight faster when she started using Krill oil as an omega 3 supplement. I've been using salmon oil. So I'm going to try switching at least Bill to krill oil to see if that may help. But other than that, right now, everyone's out of ideas for what to do.

The main thing is that he looks healthy. His coat is soft, glossy and shiny. He doesn't ACT hungry. I do have to police their bowls like a hawk during meals, or he'll eat the other cats' food (and they'll let him). But between meals, he doesn't beg for food. He isn't even the kitty that reminds me when I'm late with a meal!

So Bill had some weird metabolism to begin with - and now the vet and I just call him the kitty with the mutant metabolism.

I guess Billy just wants to be 16 lbs - he he 

I haven't put an extraordanary amount of effort or detail into Ulysses losing weight. Up until now, I've been just eyeing everything and have gotten him down a little.  I will keep a closer eye on the calories and try to incorporate the raw and see how it goes.

I guess a chart for them will help. Also, maybe a list of all of my foods with the calories per ounce on my fridge may help.

If I were to feed him 15 calories per lb that would be 240. He's already getting less than that.  If I feed him 15 calories per lb of the weight I want him to be at that would be that would be 225. He's getting less than that, too. I'm going to go with 175-190 and see what happens.

I will investigate the krill oil as well.

This cat is going to get the better of me, I know it :-)

They all have different metabolisms, that's why it's really best to just work from the calories they're already eating. :lol3:

How is Ulysses doing?

Have you settled on what to feed him and how much to feed him?

Is he losing weight?

*sigh*  I haven't really settled on what I'm feeding him yet.  I and they seem to like the weruva.  I also ordered some raw stuff (rad cat and primal, I believe).  However, from reading around it seems I have to start them on probiotics and/or some type of digestive enzyme before I start, so I'm going to leave that stuff in the freezer for a while until I get a handle on their diets.

My Ulysses hasn't lost any additonal weight. This morning he actually weighed in heavier but I will chalk it up to fluctuation ;-) lol  I think I just have to be either more accurate with the calories (on the newer food I had them getting about 180 calories verse the 200 they were getting from evo), or cut them down even more OR just be more accurate.  I just ordered the 5.5 ounce cans of the Weruva which by at 100 calories a can if I give them a 1/2 can three times a day that would be about 150. BUT, I've been reading that Weruva is too low in fat.  Should I just not worry about that right now and just look at calories until I get him down to his weight?

Also, guseepoo had a little gas the other day.  I'm guessing that it's just him getting used to the different food :-)

It's all very frustrating as I'm sure you know :-)