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Florida Executes a Protestor

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
My son runs into my office and said, "Mom, a minister is about to be killed in Tallahassee --Why?" Trying to explain "abortion" and "execution" to a 12 year old made me feel just awful. I found myself stumbling...I had to explain (in a generic way) abortion, then I had to explain that this minister killed an abortion Doctor and his body guard, etc... as a form of protesting abortion. I had to explain that it was wrong for this man to kill in order to "make his point"....

Then my son asked, "Well, why was the doctor killing unborn babies?"

This conversation was HARD… To my son, I must have sounded like I was trying to justify killing.. and why the state of Florida is legally killing a man who illegally killed another man who legally killed unborn babies...

In the end, he said, "So we killed a minister because he was trying to save unborn babies?"

I feel pretty uneasy right now. I am not sure if I handled this conversation right. I am wondering how you guys would have handled it… I also wonder how you feel about this execution..it is the first time in history that Florida executed a protestor.

Here's the full story below :

STARKE, Fla. (AP) -- Paul Hill, a former minister who said he murdered an abortion doctor and his bodyguard to save the lives of unborn babies, was executed Wednesday by injection. He was the first person put to death in the United States for anti-abortion violence.

Hill, 49, was condemned for the July 29, 1994, shooting deaths of Dr. John Bayard Britton and his bodyguard, retired Air Force Lt. Col. James Herman Barrett, and wounding Barrett's wife, June, outside the Ladies Center in Pensacola.

Hill was pronounced dead at 6:08 p.m., Gov. Jeb Bush's office said.

Death penalty opponents and others had urged Bush to halt the execution, some of them warning Hill's death would make him a martyr and unleash more violence against abortion clinics. The governor said he would not be "bullied" into stopping the execution.

Florida abortion clinics and police were on heightened alert for reprisals.

"Paul Hill is a dangerous psychopath," said Marti McKenzie, spokeswoman for Dr. James S. Pendergraft, who runs clinics in Orlando, Ocala, Tampa and Fort Lauderdale.

Outside Florida State Prison, extra law enforcement officers, explosives sniffing dogs and undercover officers were in place to prevent protests from getting out of hand.

"We don't want an incident of national proportion," Bradford County Sheriff Bob Milner said.

Hill's religious adviser, Donald Spitz, stayed with him until just before his execution.

Since losing his automatic appeals, Hill has not fought his execution and insisted up to the day before his death that he would be forgiven by God for killing to save the unborn.

"I expect a great reward in heaven," he said in an interview Tuesday, during which he was cheerful, often smiling. "I am looking forward to glory."

Hill suggested others should take up his violent cause.

Fringe elements of the anti-abortion movement that condone clinic violence have invited attacks on Web sites that proclaim Hill as a martyr. Members of the mainstream anti-abortion movement have denounced the calls for violence.

Most abortion clinics in Florida reached by The Associated Press on Wednesday declined comment. McKenzie said security is always high at their clinics, but they are particularly cautious now because of Hill's call for people to follow his actions.

"The bottom line is when you work in the industry you're aware those people are out there every single day," she said.

Inspired by the 1993 shooting death of another abortion doctor in Pensacola, Hill purchased a new shotgun and went to a gun range to practice. The morning of the murder, as Britton and the Barretts entered the clinic parking lot, Hill shot James Barrett in the head and upper body. He then reloaded and fired again, hitting Britton in the head and arm. Mrs. Barrett was wounded in the arm.

Hill put down the shotgun because he did not want to get shot by police and walked away. When officers arrested him within minutes without incident, he said, "I know one thing, no innocent babies are going to be killed in that clinic today."

Hill was the 57th inmate executed since Florida resumed executions in 1979 and the third in Florida this year.

(Copyright 2003 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
post #2 of 16
That had to be a tough conversation Kim.

But I have to say, they didn't execute him for protesting. They executed him for premeditated murder. Big difference. Millions of people protest abortion clinics without killing anyone, and that is their right. It is legal to protest, not legal to murder someone in cold blood.

From your post I assume you are very much Pro-Life?
post #3 of 16
I am not a mother but I am NOT looking forward to a future of those conversations.. Trying to explain the wrongs of vigilante justice is difficult sometimes to even adults let alone children. How do you explain to a child that yes it seems wrong that the man was ending pregnancies, but that it is legal, and that the other man decided to perform an illegal act and take the law into his own hands.. I guess I would have tried to gently explain that just because someone is doing something that you don't like (or believe is wrong) doesn't give you the right to be violent toward them. But really 12 years old isn't that young anymore so he really needs to know the truth and it seems like you tried your best to tell it to him.. Wow.. when i was 12 life was a tad different and I was a tad sheltered, my parents would have swept it under the carpet with some lame-o story.. But these days that's not a good idea with all the mayhem going on, it's best for them to be prepared for the world..
post #4 of 16
Kim, that hard to be hard. It just doesn't seem logical to kill a man for saving unborn children, but he did kill a man...so in my eyes he paid the price for his actions.

I think you did the right thing by explaining it the way you did. It's just an unfortunate situation all the way around. It's just sad that it came to killing someone to prove the protestors point.
post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by valanhb
That had to be a tough conversation Kim.

But I have to say, they didn't execute him for protesting. They executed him for premeditated murder. Big difference. Millions of people protest abortion clinics without killing anyone, and that is their right. It is legal to protest, not legal to murder someone in cold blood.

From your post I assume you are very much Pro-Life?
After that conversation, I'm not sure what I believe. (Is that possible?) I believe that people have the right to choose and I am very against partial birth abortions. Obvisouly, I need to do some soul searching, eh?

I posted a very generic conversation between Eric and I...I did explain that the murder was premeditated and Eric understands that part however, his young mind kept bouncing back to why Florida killed a minister for trying to save unborn babies....

I admitted to Eric, that I was having a hard time discussing this topic and that I needed to think about it more.... not to mention, include his dad.

I guess I won't be receiving a "Mom of the Year" award anytime soon for the way I handled that conversation... I just can't explain how uncomfortable it made me feel...
post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by annabelle33
I am not a mother but I am NOT looking forward to a future of those conversations.. Trying to explain the wrongs of vigilante justice is difficult sometimes to even adults let alone children. How do you explain to a child that yes it seems wrong that the man was ending pregnancies, but that it is legal, and that the other man decided to perform an illegal act and take the law into his own hands.. I guess I would have tried to gently explain that just because someone is doing something that you don't like (or believe is wrong) doesn't give you the right to be violent toward them. But really 12 years old isn't that young anymore so he really needs to know the truth and it seems like you tried your best to tell it to him.. Wow.. when i was 12 life was a tad different and I was a tad sheltered, my parents would have swept it under the carpet with some lame-o story.. But these days that's not a good idea with all the mayhem going on, it's best for them to be prepared for the world..
Yeah Anna, I was a tad sheltered at 12 years old myself. My mom would have told me to drop it -- Eric will be 13 next month and he is in 7th grade, even so, it's still a tough call for me to explain topics like this to him... I can't help but wonder how much will he really understand.... We do talk about politics, sex, drugs, sleeze balls...but never this. This topic threw me off BIG TIME. To me he's still my baby!!!!! Did I ever tap dancing all over my tongue!! Eeeeek!

post #7 of 16
Quote:
Originally posted by kimward34
I guess I won't be receiving a "Mom of the Year" award anytime soon for the way I handled that conversation... I just can't explain how uncomfortable it made me feel...
For even attempting to talk to your son about this topic, I think you are certainly mother of the year! I can't even imagine trying to justify or explain every news event to a younger person and get him/her to understand. But what you did, was to discuss things that are happening and not just ignore his questions. It's great that he questions the world around him and doesn't take things just for fact.

If I were in your shoes today, I would stumble through my discussion too! But it does make you sometimes question and rethink your stand on things when you have to explain it to a younger audience. Tough subjects like this one should be discussed more, it's when we ignore them that it becomes dangerous.
post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Russian Blue
.....But it does make you sometimes question and rethink your stand on things when you have to explain it to a younger audience. Tough subjects like this one should be discussed more, it's when we ignore them that it becomes dangerous.
Whew! Isn't that the truth! This topic has made me do a lot of thinking...
post #9 of 16
IMO, the man was a terrorist, no different than any other. He deliberately set out to take human lives, and succeeded. he did is based on his religious convictions, just like the 9/11 terrorists and the Hamas/Islamic Jihad terrosists.
post #10 of 16
I agree with Kass - you are a great mother to explain it to him, and especially to be honest with him that you were having a hard time with the topic and needed to think about it some more. To show him that it's OK to question what happens in the world, to be confused about it, and that you don't have all the answers. To me, that is Mom of the Year!

To a young mind, I think the idea of him being a "minister" really throws a kink in it too. Ministers are supposed to be good, and know right from wrong and good from evil. Why would he do something like that if it was so evil?

To me, it's pretty clear cut. Two wrongs don't make a right, no matter how wrong you believe the other person is. It just isn't OK to kill someone who is doing his job.
post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys... I really appreciate your input more than you know. I feel a lot better after reading your responses ... I guess I needed a little re-enforcement. .... Ya know? Just knowing that I did the right thing by, at least, being open enough to discuss this with my son...even if I didn't have a real answer…


DH and I will talk about it more tonight when Eric goes to bed. Maybe we can come up with a more productive way to discuss this again with less stumbling (on my part) ....

You guys are the best!

What a day....
post #12 of 16
I agree you certainly handled a difficult subject very well with your son. If he starts asking questions it is time to discuss them, and impart your views.

On the subject of this person's death, though, I am firmly in the camp with Sue. I would like to emphasize that this person was NOT a protester, he was a killer. Leaving aside any debate on abortion itself as murder, no one, not God, gave him the right to take a life himself. That was sheer arrogance and self-importance. It would be a terrifying world if everyone took it upon themselves to kill people they disagree with, however strongly they feel about the topic even in life/death terms.
post #13 of 16
You might explain to your son the concept of PEACEFUL protest, which is OK vs doing something illegal, as a form of protest, which is not.

It is only OK to kill someone, if there is IMMINENT danger to yourself or someone else. For instance, no would fault you for killing someone who was attacking your child.
post #14 of 16
The most important thing here is that he came to you asking about something and you were there to try to explain it to him.
Next time he wants to know something he will know he can come to you for the answer.
You emphasized to him that you are happy to help if he has any questions.
You sound like a good Mom
post #15 of 16
Discussing the topic of death with a small child is never easy. To bring into the discussion the killing of unborn babies, must have been really daunting.

This minister, though professing to be a man of God, is clearly a sick individual. His parting comment to an interview I watched of him earlier tonight was, he was not afraid to die, for a huge reward awaits him in heaven for his godly deed.

I think he is in for a rude awakening, God does not support killing, no matter what.

Kim for you to have tackled this with Eric is admirable. He will probably have more questions and hopefully tomorrow, Keith will be there right by your side helping to answer them.
post #16 of 16
Kim, I think you handled that rather well. I'm not a mom, but I'm the doting aunt of 6 kids (ages 9 to 21), and a teacher to about 60 - 80 kids at any one time. At 12, Eric is old enough to learn that things are never "black and white", and that adults simply don't have all the answers. I personally believe that it's important to stress all sides of any given issue, and not to impose your own opinion on kids who are old enough to make up their own minds (which may very well change with age and experience). One of the most important things that you can teach any child is to be critical, and to form his/her own opinions after weighing all sides of any given issue. Roe vs. Wade, after 30 years, is still controversial, and many people (myself included) have mixed feelings about the pro life vs. pro choice controversy. But that's life, and your son will have to deal with it. Be proud that he is questioning religious, judicial and social/political issues!
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