We MIGHT have a problem with Evie's previous "owner."

So, a few weeks ago, I posted a thread about my boyfriend's cat, Evie. The full story is here: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/244978/we-got-a-new-kitty

Essentially, we were sure Evie was an abandoned cat. All the evidence pointed to it. So we took her in, got her spayed, got her shots, and gave her a loving home.

A few days ago while I was out, two girls came and knocked on my boyfriend's door. Apparently they had seen Evie in the window, and knew that she used to be their friend's cat, a girl who lives in our complex. They weren't trying to get her back, just asking what had happened. So Nick told them the truth: that she basically walked into his house and acted like she owned the place, so we gave her a home. Evidently, she was indoor/outdoor with the previous owner. They also said that the previous owner had assumed animal control had picked her up, and that previous owner is going to be out of town for the next two weeks.

So here's the thing. I really, really doubt that even if word gets back to this girl that we have Evie, which it might not, that she'll try to make any concerted effort to get her back. But if she does.... what on earth do we do?

We have a strong suspicion that the previous owner didn't bother to register her as a pet in her apartment with the leasing office. Here's why:

When Evie was wandering about, before I had ever seen her, I got a call from the leasing office asking if I had lost my white and tabby cat (Kramer). Kramer and Evie have similar markings, so I guess they searched the lease database for anyone with a white and tabby cat, and called around to see if she was missing. If the previous owner had really thought she was in the pound, clearly she didn't receive a call from the leasing office, which points to the idea that Evie wasn't on the lease.

Furthermore, she allowed Evie to roam, unspayed, and possibly unfed (as she was ravenous when we found her). Evie had attempted to get into at least two other places that weren't the previous owner's apartment (the leasing office and my other friend's apartment), which to me smacks of abandonment.

So what do you wise friends of TCS think? Like I said, I doubt anything will come of this, but if it does, I'm just wondering what our options are. I think it'll probably be pretty hard for the previous owner to prove Evie was even hers considering all the circumstantial evidence, but my boyfriend is worrying himself to death over it, terrified that someone is going to come take his baby away and be horrible to her again.

TIA for the thoughts and advice.

Please don't worry too much about something that may never happen... But if you decide what you will do should it happen, you can then put it to one side, knowing you've dealt with it.

If you're at all antagonistic to the previous owner, she may demand the cat back, just to try to prove a point - it usually just doesn't work. Honestly, I doubt the previous owner cares less, judging by her behaviour, and the only threat would be that, now that you know it's hers, she may feel obliged to do something about it. I'd be inclined to start by giving her a way out... (the fact that Evie is so settled with you and how it would break your boyfriend's heart to lose her).

If that doesn't work I'd go with 'politely firm' and point out that the cat had not been spayed and that you organised  that, (the previous owner would have a lot more kitties if you hadn't!) and that Evie pretty well decided where she was going to live.

If she still insists, I'd flatly refuse, saying the cat was unspayed, undernourished and unhappy and you just won't give her back.

I would go ahead an microchip her in your boyfriends name.  Petco does it weekly as do other stores.  Unless this cat is unusual colors or has had some surgeries in past then chances are so slim.  One of my friends had an issue with x and I told her to do the same thing and not tell ANYONE it was being done. 
 

They have no claim to the cat, it was not collared, hungry and unspayed. You have provided vet care, food and spay, which makes her your cat....you have medical records showing care. They will not.

And, if they were so worried, they would have put out posters, they don't care. Don't spend any more time worrying about this. She isn't going anywhere.

We were in a similar situation - people went away for 6 weeks and just left their cat to fend for herself. On their return, they demanded we give her back. Since we'd gotten her vetted, fed her and had tried to find her owners, the judge ruled in our favor.
Unless this girl can prove she was actively searching for her cat, had gotten her her shots, etc., you probably don't have to worry. The suggestion to get her microchipped asap is a good one.

There is one point more: Can they prove she was theirs?  I mean, they can prob prove they had once a somewhat similiar cat. But can they prove it was exactly this individual?  "The benefit of doubt", oh so strong in all criminal cases, where they do have a suspect, is here against them.

I've been in this situation before... Here's the deal, even if they have proof and pictures and vet records... Possession is 9/10's of the law.  She is yours.  Don't even sweat it.  You can show you spent the money to have her spayed and vetted.  And she is in your possession, at your home.  That is all you need.  You won't get into trouble even if they send the law after you, which normally they won't.  But if they do, she is yours as far as the law sees it. 

Hun, I would go ahead and get Evie microchipped in your name and keep her as your own. You don't even know if this story is true about "who" owns this cat. It could just have been a stray that this one girl was calling her own, you know? She is yours now. If something comes of this, and I don't think that will happen, you just be brutally (gently ) honest about what happened when Evie came into your life. You innocently and lovingly took in a cat that had no home, was bound to get pregnant, and was abandoned in the outdoors to fend for herself. You knew nothing more other than she needed to be rescued. With no chip and she was unspayed - then in my book, she was homeless or worse uncared for and unloved by whomever. AND it just burns me up nfire: when people allow their unaltered cats to roam which makes our job as feral caretakers a never ending battle in this country. She is your cat.

First of all let me thank you for getting her spayed and taking her in. You are awesome! And I agree with everyone else..IMO she was an abandoned kitty. Get her chipped.

P3 and The King said:

I've been in this situation before... Here's the deal, even if they have proof and pictures and vet records... Possession is 9/10's of the law.  She is yours.  Don't even sweat it.  You can show you spent the money to have her spayed and vetted.  And she is in your possession, at your home.  That is all you need.  You won't get into trouble even if they send the law after you, which normally they won't.  But if they do, she is yours as far as the law sees it. 

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this is really not true at all. if the original owners find out, and decide they want the cat back, they can sue in civil court, and if they can prove it's their cat, they will win easily. They could also call the police and demand him/her back, which they have a right to.

Unless you can prove the cat was abandoned you don't have a right to the cat in any way. Mistake or not, they own the cat, and if they opt to let him/her roam, as sad as it is, that's their perogative, even though they can be fined.

I don't mean to be the doom and gloom guy, but I would approach this much differently. If, in fact they demand him/her back, you're out the money at the vet too. you can't force them to pay for unapproved work like spaying/neutering.

this is a terrible situation for you to be in, and I know first hand how hard it is. I had a cat i fed twice a day, he could come RUNNING when he saw me. for months I thought he was a stray, but I couldn't bring him in because of my two demons of cats that are scaredy cats and afraid of everything, all the way down to dustbunnies. So i kept feeding him. then I found out he belonged to my neighbor. Now, they let him stay outside ALL NIGHT when it was in the low teens in the winter, and when it was 105 in the summer and 96% humidity. I fed, cleaned ticks off him, watered him and brushed him. i know he wasn't being well cared for at home. But I had no right to claim him when they moved, and he left along with them. he actually made his way back a week later,  but they came and got him again. it broke my heart. I even went as far as to buy a heated outdoor cat house so he'd have a warm safe place to sleep.

But now that I've shared all that, I would speak to the owners if they try to contact you, and see if they can simply be talked out of it. be extremely nice, and don't offend them. They might not be as attached as you are, and be willing to give him up, but you should be prepared if they don't.

Terrible situation, and of course you're a saint for helping the little guy/gal. I wish more people were as kind as you, that's for sure.

Thanks everyone for the replies.

We will get her 'chipped in his name ASAP.

As for what the police/judges/authorities will and won't do, I strongly suspect that it's very dependent on which country, state, county, city, etc. you live in and the particular people you're dealing with. As far as I could find, Florida has no laws governing lost pets, but our county's animal control says that pets have to have proof of rabies shots, adequate food, water, and shelter, and be "properly confined," whatever that means.

This girl will probably not come around looking. But if she does, we're not giving Evie up without a fight. :heart3:

i hope it works out for you. The courts see pets as property, they don't need special laws for them.

But I bet you're right and you won't have a problem. I would fight it too.

Under the law (not that I agree with it -- I don't!) animals are considered property and possession is nine-tenths of the law.  She has no ID?  She was roaming at large?  You are feeding and caring for her?  The law would see her as being yours.  And it goes without saying that as a spayed, indoor-only and well-cared for cat, she will have the kind of life any loving and responsible caregiver would afford to any cat.  Stand your ground.

I'm just interested in how people are talking about the law so much.  Is it quite common to take something like this to the courts?  I was thinking more about  a way of resolving it peacefully and didn't even consider the legal side as I thought it would be so unlikely.

fastnoc said:

this is really not true at all. if the original owners find out, and decide they want the cat back, they can sue in civil court, and if they can prove it's their cat, they will win easily. They could also call the police and demand him/her back, which they have a right to.

Unless you can prove the cat was abandoned you don't have a right to the cat in any way. Mistake or not, they own the cat, and if they opt to let him/her roam, as sad as it is, that's their perogative, even though they can be fined.

I don't mean to be the doom and gloom guy, but I would approach this much differently. If, in fact they demand him/her back, you're out the money at the vet too. you can't force them to pay for unapproved work like spaying/neutering.

this is a terrible situation for you to be in, and I know first hand how hard it is. I had a cat i fed twice a day, he could come RUNNING when he saw me. for months I thought he was a stray, but I couldn't bring him in because of my two demons of cats that are scaredy cats and afraid of everything, all the way down to dustbunnies. So i kept feeding him. then I found out he belonged to my neighbor. Now, they let him stay outside ALL NIGHT when it was in the low teens in the winter, and when it was 105 in the summer and 96% humidity. I fed, cleaned ticks off him, watered him and brushed him. i know he wasn't being well cared for at home. But I had no right to claim him when they moved, and he left along with them. he actually made his way back a week later,  but they came and got him again. it broke my heart. I even went as far as to buy a heated outdoor cat house so he'd have a warm safe place to sleep.

But now that I've shared all that, I would speak to the owners if they try to contact you, and see if they can simply be talked out of it. be extremely nice, and don't offend them. They might not be as attached as you are, and be willing to give him up, but you should be prepared if they don't.

Terrible situation, and of course you're a saint for helping the little guy/gal. I wish more people were as kind as you, that's for sure.

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Actually that is not true, perhaps it depends on the laws in your area/state?  I don't know but years ago, I had 2 cocker spaniels.  Well someone broke in my home and stole them from me.  I filed a report and about a year later, the dogs were "found" someone took them to the vet to be checked out and the microchip had my information turn up... Well, I took them to court to get the dogs back.  I had the papers, pictures, and the police report... I did not get them back.  The people got to keep them because they were in their possession and they had "cared" for them.  They said they "found" the dogs after they had been dumped. 

Possession is 9/10's of the law and if you cannot prove that this person has somehow wronged the animal and they are in their possession... You lose. 

And Mani, people are referring to the law because we live in a day and age when people don't try to civily work things out.. They get the law and courts involved. 

Mani said:

I'm just interested in how people are talking about the law so much.  Is it quite common to take something like this to the courts?  I was thinking more about  a way of resolving it peacefully and didn't even consider the legal side as I thought it would be so unlikely.

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I doubt that many people actually go to court because of the time and expense involved. In our case (cited above), the cat's original owner was not only being very obnoxious and making threats; the local volunteer shelter wanted him fined for abandoning his cat, which he denied, and prohibited from having other pets in the future. I'd gotten enough statements from his immediate neighbors when I thought she was lost that it was worthwhile going to court, since it was clear he'd lose and have to pay the court costs.

That is true.  Most people will not go to court over such a matter as it does cost money... Especially the person who loses.  The only reason I went was because they refused to give my dogs back and I had been devestated that the police wouldn't take them back from the people who stole them from me.  I had paperwork and a police report to prove they were stolen... And it still did me no good.  They most likely have no paperwork and definitely no police report so the OP is in good shape and should not worry.

speakhandsforme said:

Thanks everyone for the replies.
We will get her 'chipped in his name ASAP.
As for what the police/judges/authorities will and won't do, I strongly suspect that it's very dependent on which country, state, county, city, etc. you live in and the particular people you're dealing with. As far as I could find, Florida has no laws governing lost pets, but our county's animal control says that pets have to have proof of rabies shots, adequate food, water, and shelter, and be "properly confined," whatever that means.
This girl will probably not come around looking. But if she does, we're not giving Evie up without a fight. :heart3:

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I don't think it will come to that, hun. Let's hope not. :nod: Mega vibes and keep us posted!!! Evie was so lucky she found you and I think you feel the same about her. :rub: :heart3:

Well! We have an update on the situation....

Yesterday, my boyfriend heard a girl yelling outside his apartment, "They stole my cat!!!" Nothing happened after that.

Then today, there was a knock on the door (just now in fact). I answered it.

It was a lady and two small children. She said hi and told us she'd had a cat that had been outside, that she had been missing for a few weeks, and that people had seen her in our window lately. I said yes, we have a cat. She said it was her cat and wanted it back, and showed me a picture of her on her cell phone (it was indeed Evie, but I didn't say that :lol3.

I explained how she walked in, and we fed her, gave her flea drops. Then after she came in repeatedly, we got her spayed, vetted, shots, chipped in his name, etc.

The woman then began to make excuses for not looking after her "outside" cat... at the beginning of June, she went into the hospital for a hysterectomy.... right after that her kid got chicken pox.... then she went on vacation for two weeks. She had thought animal control had got a hold of her. I asked if she'd checked with animal control; she said that she'd called. She said she posted on my apartment complex's Facebook about Evie, which would explain why we saw no flyers (we're not a part of the Facebook page).

I pointed out that she'd left an unspayed, sexually mature cat outside, to which she replied that she had intended to get her spayed after she got out of the hospital. She told me she'd gotten her in November, which means Evie is well past the age where she would have been going into heat.... why not before then? Whatever. I said she'd been following people around, and trying to get inside their apartments, and she said "Well she's just really friendly." Yeah. okay.

All of this doesn't matter, because outdoor cats aren't allowed by city code, which I then told her. She said again that she wanted Evie back, using her kids to give me sad looks, so I told her no, that we were keeping her.

Then she said "that's WRONG."

AND THEN:

"You obviously know nothing about owning a cat."



Then she walked off in a huff with her kids. Right now she's standing outside on the sidewalk with them, yelling something at our apartment (Evie is in the window), but I don't care. We can take Evie to my apartment for her safety if we need to.


Anyway, that's the story.... I'd like to hear your thoughts about whether or not I know anything about owning a cat.

She has a lot of nerve. Good for you in standing up for the cat and taking care of her. What sane person lets a sexually mature intact female cat roam outside?