Is she a wedge head?

So, I know it can be hard to tell when they are little bits, but my barely 6 week old kitten Khaleesi (do not yell at me for taking me from her mom too soon, her mom dried up at 2 weeks and rejected the litter, so she was taken and was bottle fed since) is a half siamese/half maine coon. I never met the parents, I got her from the foster mom who had no clue about appleheads or wedgies so she just said "siamese" so I am including pics of a close up of my girls facial bone structure. Does she appear to be more wedge or apple? I think due to her pronounced muzzle at only 6 weeks she is wedge...but I am no breeder!

Oh what a shame, even hand raised bubs should stay together for 12-16 weeks and learn from each other

Does the breeder breed for the show bench? Being a mix it's anyone's guess, she does look extreme to me though.

No clue, the girl I got her for was getting rid of the kittens and if I didn't take her she was going to go to someone else....so despite me knowing 6 weeks is a bit young I took her in. I am working on introducing small stressors (being shut in a room away from me for a few moments, being held for a minute or so by strangers) with rewards after so she learns tolerance and is not skittish...plus she has my very affable and friendly adult brother and sister pair to emulate. They already are taking to her after a day, not a single hiss from either kitten or adults and lots of poking with a paw then running away going on! 

But that is stuff for the kitten section! I don't think the original owner was breeding for the bench, however the fact that she had two purebreds (dad was papered Maine Coon and mom was papered Siamese) that she accidentally let breed makes me think she was a 'designer' pet fan so would most likely have purchased a cat on looks....and wedge heads are the trend. I agree though, she has a very odd head shape unlike any other kitten I have had.

Accidents do happen, what's odd is the breeder not rearing the kittens herself. Unless she was unable to for some reason bit should still be involved in screening homes.

Just they hcm scanned and hip tested the Coonie, not sure what tests Siamese breeders do.

Kittens are usually easy to introduce into a home, do keep an eye on play though as she'll be quite small

I don't really have any advice or input... But, I LOVE the name... Game Of Thrones, right?  I toyed with naming a Persian I rescued recently Daenerys but decided not to at the last second!

missymotus said:

she does look extreme to me though.

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Sorry I was posting from my iPhone that should say doesn't  look extreme..

P3 and The King said:

I don't really have any advice or input... But, I LOVE the name... Game Of Thrones, right? 

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My thoughts too... great name!

She looks like an average kitten to me - sweet though, and a tortie.

Thanks! I watch GoT with my boyfriend and fell in LOVE with the name Khaleesi...and funny enough when my dad met her today he remarked to me that he had said to my mom if they were still having kids he would name his daughter Khaleesi! Guess we think alike! However today at the vets was hilarious how many times a tech or vet said it wrong!

Its funny you say Torti because I cannot for the life of me put a finger on her coloring. The vet thinks she will fade from the dark blackish grey color she has on her body but keep the dark points like her siamese heritage and I just don't know! She looks black until you see her up close then you can see brown spots kinda scattered randomly around her coat...maybe its her kitten coat growing out? Its cute as heck! I would be fine if she was just turned out to be an average black kitty but if her odd heritage yields something unique I will be happy also!

What colour are the parents? And can we see more photos please of her full body.

Is she long haired? She won't be pointed, MC's don't seem to be and you need 2 copies of the point gene and kittens are born white, not fully coloured like this kitten.

She doesn't look the way 6 wk old wedgie meezer kittens look , but  if she is a cross between MC and Siamese, then it is anyone's guess how much the MC genes would mitigate the head shape.   So not sure how you could really tell which type the mother was, unless she turns out looking much more extremely wedgie  than she does at this time.  Right now she doesn't look extreme.   she has a well defined muzzle but that does not mean necessarily a modern type Siamese parent.  Head shape looks a bit more comparable to kittens from the Old Style Siamese now shown as "Thai" in TICA..     I don't love the term  "Applehead" since it gives a wrong idea.   It was originally an insult started back in the 1960s or so by breeders of the more extreme type , against Siamese with less extremely wedge shaped heads.  It's not an accurate description of the head shape of the great majority of genuine Siamese of ANY type - including the Wichienmaat cats still in Thailand.... they have a modified wedge head, not nearly so angular.    It's more like a wedge muzzle  not the whole head. )

but she doesn't really look like them either.    I'm less sure what a 6 wk old Maine Coon looks like.   but I dont think she looks very MC-ish either.   She's just her own unique self!  A very cute little black tortie!  

I will take more pictures in the AM with better light. However 2 of her siblings were pointed actually, both boys and both seal point. I was surprised too since the other 2 kittens besides 'Leesi were black and grey. 

The mom was a seal point and the dad was a golden tabby MC. Beyond that I don't know much of the parents genetics since I am technically the 3rd 'owner' since the original breeder freaked when the mom dried up and posted an ad on Craigslist saying she had newborns that needed to be bottle fed and she couldn't/didn't know how, and that is when the woman I got Khaleesi from took the babes since she had experience bottle feeding. Overall a unique situation with a unique combination and a very unique little girl! 

I am also curious if she will be long haired/medium haired, the vet seemed to think medium hair since she has quite a bit of excess 'fluff' going on, she has a little beard and tufts on her feet but no ear tufts. Her tail however is a little whip, no fluff at all! She is quite the mystery kitten, and more pics will be posted ASAP! 

 Her sire must have been a red golden.  But  2 of her siblings were pointed?  Hmmm.... could there have been another father of the litter?  Or else, are they SURE the sire is a pedigreed Maine Coon, or are they just going off what this woman said?    I'm not saying it's impossible,  but the gene for the pointed pattern ("cs")  has to be inherited from BOTH parents and I at least I would think it would be rather unusual for Maine Coons to be carrying cs since it's never been a pattern allowed in the breed.    ( MCs are bred to preserve an old natural breed that developed in the northeast USA , a breed whose ancestors would have come from Europe before that.   The pointed gene  ( allele)  is from Southeast Asia.  So it is not permitted in some breeds that preserve natural breeds of Western ancestry,  such as Maine Coon, American Shorthair or Norwegian Forest Cat.  

BUT..  on the other hand,  the "cs" gene  got widely spread throughout the random-bred cat populations in Western countries over the course of the past 130 years or so  due to Siamese cats and their descendent mating with the local moggies.  So some foundation cats of Maine Coons MAY have been carrying one copy pf cs.   I would think Maine Coon breeders would have tried to breed it out if it popped up.   But it IS a recessive and "recessives are forever" -- or anyway it could hide for a long long time BECAUSE of being so uncommon in the breed!

 It may be the fluff is just kitten fluff.  and the shorthair tail is the real sign.   Genetically the odds are that she would not be longhair since few Siamese would  be carrying longhair.  Like the pointed pattern,  longhair is recessive  so that is another thing they need to get from both parents in order to show it..   She would definitely have 1 copy of longhair from her father if he is a MC since any longhair cat  has to give longhair to each kitten.  and  it seems that can have an effect to make a shorthair cat have a bit longer hair than  otherwise.    I guess it also depends where the mom is registered.  In TICA, Siamese are allowed to cross with Balinese ( longhair version of Siamese.  so there can be cats registered in TICA as Siamese,  carrying longhair -  but they have a registration code denoting they are a "variant" .   

So she was the only girl in the litter?  That is the only way for the kitten colors to be as reported and there to be only one father.    If the blue  and/or the black littermates are  female and  NOT a tortie -- if  there are no signs of  red ( orange)  on the black kittens coat,  or cream ( pale orange  ) on the blue coat ,  then there would  certainly have been more than one father of this litter. 

Males get ONLY from their mother the gene that determines whether their base coat colour turns out  red -based, or whether  it defaults to black-based color.  The 2 seal pt boys got black based color from the mother

Female kittens get  genes for whether they have red based or black based coloring from BOTH parents.  They can get  2 of the same or 1 red and 1 black-- and end up being torties like this little girl you have.   Since we know she got black from her mom,  she had to get red from the dad.   and any other female kittens with the same parents would also be torties. 

  I'm glad to hear she has some older cat role models and they are seeming friendly already!.   As much nurturing as you can provide,  she needs the substitute cat family too.  :-)

maewkaew said:

But  2 of her siblings were pointed?  Hmmm.... could there have been another father of the litter?  Or else, are they SURE the sire is a pedigreed Maine Coon, or are they just going off what this woman said?  

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Several odd things going on here, and thought the same as quoted. How terribly sad someone is apparently breeding 2 breeds and has no breeder friends or mentors to turn to.

What colour is Golden Tabby?

So the litter is black tortie, blue, black and seal points?

missymotus said:

Several odd things going on here, and thought the same as quoted. How terribly sad someone is apparently breeding 2 breeds and has no breeder friends or mentors to turn to.

What colour is Golden Tabby?

So the litter is black tortie, blue, black and seal points?

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I wondered that and concluded it might be a poor description of a red or cream tabby, or it might be something along the lines of a Golden Chincilla.

OrientalSlave said:

I wondered that and concluded it might be a poor description of a red or cream tabby, or it might be something along the lines of a Golden Chincilla.

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 Yeah it would be along the lines of Golden Chinchilla or Golden Shaded.  But "golden tabby" is not an incorrect term.  it's used in at least some breeds / some associations.
 

I know Golden Tabby is a colour in some breeds, but it's not listed in the CFA Maine Coon breed description (must fall into the any other colour category if they really exist) nor is it in the GCCF colours.

So, calling the male a golden tabby MC leaves me wondering what colour he really is - if, indeed, he is an MC.

Wow, you guys know a ton more about genetics than I could ever dream of! Glad I came here for this question then!

From the foster moms description, who saw the papers for both mom and dad (but apparently she must have got the color name wrong?), and comparing it to a MC color page I think the dad was a brown mackerel tabby. She described him as having brown stripes on a gold background. He was the only intact male in the house and the female was indoors, so I am pretty sure he is the only dad. The kittens colors were as follows 2 seal point males (possible one may have been chocolate point as I didn't look very closely) 1 black female 1 dark grey female and Khaleesi who is ????

From doing a crap ton of research last night (2 hours worth) I THINK Khaleesi may be a smoke? I think the brown I, and you see, is just a interaction of the silver undercoat that she has with her black guard hairs. Yet her face and feet are jet black, since they have no undercoat that I can tell. I may also be just making a fool of myself guessing since for all I know it would be impossible for Khaleesi to be a smoke with her parents! Anyways, here are some more pictures...sorry for them being action shots but she is a ball of energy!







Her ghost tabby markings also make it hard to tell, but she has a very definite lighter undercoat and it causes a odd effect where as you can see she looks like she has brown areas. If I can catch her sleeping and take a few pictures before she wakes up I will try and get a shot of her fur parted to show the undercoat

Also, her eyes are amazing. The vet says they look like they are about where they will stay into adulthood without much change...and they are a very neat grey/green

If she is a smoke then if you part her fur it will be bone-white nearer her skin, even in the really short fur on her feet.  Being greyer nearer the skin is common and is simply an unsound coat (e.g. not black to the roots), which often improves as kittens mature.

She doesn't look like a smoke to me.  Ghost tabby markings are common on black kittens and tend to go away as they get an adult coat.  She also seems to have blue eyes in the photo above!

However whatever colour she is, she looks very cute and I love that pink tongue curling around her lips!