I know this is a hot topic on TCS, and I came across this article and thought I would share it. It explains why canned food is better for cats than dry food, and I encourage people feeding their kitties dry food to read it. http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FEEDING YOUR CAT 8-10 Long 2-12-10.pdf

The three key negative issues associated with dry food are:
1) type of protein - too high in plant-based versus animal-based proteins
2) carbohydrate load is too high
3) water content is too low

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I found this interesting..

By-products are not necessarily low quality protein sources. In fact, they can be extremely nutritious. However, there is more variability when quality is being considered when compared to muscle meat. By- products are also cheaper than muscle meat so one would think that as much as the prescription diets cost, these companies could use a higher quality protein source.

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The phrase “Indoor Only” is simply a marketing gimmick. Cats did not stop being obligate carnivores when Man put a roof over their heads. These ‘Indoor Only’ foods are always in the dry form and are very high in carbohydrates.

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Please note that Hill’s – the maker of Hill's Prescription foods – continues to use extremely questionable preservatives such as BHA, BHT and ethoxyquin in many of their products. Other companies have abandoned the practice of using these chemicals as preservatives – opting for more natural and safer methods.
Unfortunately, most veterinarians are very poorly educated in the area of nutrition. This field of study is not heavily emphasized in veterinary school. Also, if you consider the fact that many of the people teaching this subject in our veterinary schools, and advising general practitioners, have a monetary tie to the pet food industry, you will see a potential conflict of interest.
This leads to general practitioners often basing their dietary recommendations on information obtained directly or indirectly from the pet food industry – an industry that does not always have your cat’s best interest in mind when formulating their products. In most instances, you will be paying far more money than you should be for the low quality, species-inappropriate ingredients that many of these prescription products contain.
It is also important to note that most of these prescription diets have no clinical studies behind them to support their use in treating the various diseases that they target.

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Not that I disagree :lol3: , but what are the sources? Thanks!

All from Dr. Pierson's site.

http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FEEDING YOUR CAT 8-10 Long 2-12-10.pdf

Thanks. I thought it looked familiar.

The part about universities being tied to the pet food industry explains what I clicked into recently: a clinical nutritionist at Tufts University claiming cats should eat the stuff you buy in stores. That article was so stupid I started a thread about it in the Raw Food forum and everyone agreed the vet has ties with the pet food industry.

There is scientific evidence eating less meat helps cats with CRF because protein is hard on the kidneys. Unfortunately, two symptoms of CRF are rapid weight loss and decreased appetite so you can't get a cat to eat food with less protein and must give it whatever it will eat. This creates a controversy among veterinarians about what cats with CRF should eat when there is time to slow disease progression. If cats were willing to eat cans with less protein, no problem, but the fact is they aren't and will wait until they are starving to eat it.

There also is proof cats with bladder crystals need more water, right? The answer to that one is obvious: feed a lot of canned food and none of the dry stuff.

Actually, with CRF cats, it's the.phosphorus that needs to be restricted. In the early stages, foods with a moderate level of protein is fine as you don't want your cat to lose more muscle. However, in the later stages, restricting protein does become an issue especially since the kidneys are less capable of filtering wastes.

Cats in general need moisture from their food. And they need high protein aNd low carbs. Though I am not a big fan of the rx foods, I believe they have a place. In the latter stages of CRF for example, you cannot feed a high protein diet so hence the use of corn for protein. Though not optimal for a healthy cat, it does reduce the .protein in the food. And these companies do a ton of research to develop these diets. Not many pet food companies can say this.

I have read some of Dr. Pierson's posts on various threads in the nutrition section of vin.com. I have access to the veterinary section of this veterinary info network in which vets can post questions and other vets respond. Much of what she says is based on her own experiences with her own cats and those of her patients. Many of the vets who respond to her prefer evidence-based information. Meaning empirically-obtained evidence. She is quite a radical per se n terms of nutrition in these threads but what she fails to do is discuss how to feed a cat with compromised organs such as the kidneys or liver. If you read Dr. Elizabeth's book The cat:...( can't remember the rest of the title...sorry) she discusses feeding crf cats and those with other conditions. Again, her evidence cones from her own experience with her patients. Yes not empirical but there's something to be said about personal experience. Those vets who solely rely on evidence-based medicine would want a more representative sample and more controlled conditions.

I agree that cats need high protein diet with low carbs and the protein should come from animal sources as opposed to plant sources. However, I think that painting the rx pet food companies with a huge "it's Crap' brush isn't fair. I have seen dogs with severe allergies have their problems resolve when they ate hills z/d. Or cats with urinary issues that cannot eat anything other than Medi-cal UrinAry SO. Yes some of the ingredients are undesirable but sometimes you have to consider the results.

On the other side of the coin my own cat who has CRF, is doing fine on a rotation of various canned foods including.a couple of rx foods. His values have been stable for the last year and a half. Knock on wood. Although I abhor the ingredients in k/d, I can't argue with studies that have shown a longer survival rate among CRF cats who ate k/d vs a regular mAintenance diet. Mind you, Schweppie won't eat k/d so who knows.

Very good points Sweet. The reason I was thinking low protein early is in the later stages, cats are unwilling to eat k/d and you have to make them eat, period, so it is easier to feed low protein food early on. But that is just thinking from the cat's POV, of course.

Someone needs to do a study on the value of prescription foods and how they are really affecting sick cats.

EmilyMayWilcha said:

Very good points Sweet. The reason I was thinking low protein early is in the later stages, cats are unwilling to eat k/d and you have to make them eat, period, so it is easier to feed low protein food early on. But that is just thinking from the cat's POV, of course.

Someone needs to do a study on the value of prescription foods and how they are really affecting sick cats.

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I think that is the point of hills and Medi-cal doing tons of.research. Their.study on k/d looked at the survival rate of crf cats being fed k/d vs a regular maintenance diet. The cats who ate k/d survived longer. I can't remember the exact numbers but they tested how their food affected cats.with crf. The point I'm making is that sometimes the ends justify the means.

All pet food companies formulate their.foods based on the cheapest ingredients. Rx or not, you won't find a food (I'm talking.canned and dry, I'm not sure about the pre-made raw foods) that has an actual chicken breast. if they claim it's human grade yeah it.comes from the animals meant for human consumption but it's the leftovers after they take what humans eat (I.e. breasts, drumsticks, thigh etc) out. What's left? Pet food. Hills and Medi-cal do research so they.can feed sick cats. Cats who are hypothyroid can now eat y/d and not take pills. It's not for every.hyperthyroid cat and certainly for just.any cat. Some animals couldn't eat if it wasn't for hydrolyzed protein. If you understand what allergies really are, then you'd understand why the hydrolyzed protein works.

In developing these foods something has to give. You cannot really feedbgrain-free high protein food to a crf cat. So regular diets don't work all the time. Trust me, I don't like the ingredients in rx foods either nor their marketing tactics but there is a place for them. I've heard many vets scoff at clients who come in and say they feed grain-free blah blah blah. And I try to convey this idea of feeding a.species appropriate diet but they tell me that cats do eat carbs from the contents of their.prey's stomach. Which may be true. But then I point out that many of hills foods are high carb and they.point out that ingredients like corn provide protein as well. Ah I give up.

If you think about it, when you take a medicine it may fix the big problem bit the side.effects may cause.different problems. Bit doctors weigh the big against the small problems. And prescribe the medicine based on the patient's needs. Like a cat with both kidney failure and diabetes. You know you should feed a big protein low carb food.for the diabetes bit the high protein and thus high phosphorus is detrimental to the kidneys. Your.vet has to weigh his options based on what is going to adversely affect the cat more.

Now if you were to say let's do research on how hills and Medi-cal's maintenance diets vs otc maintenance diets affect healthy cats, then I would be all for it. But this will never happen as it would have to be long term and expensive. Mind you with all the profit they make from buying cheap gmo corn you'd think they could afford it.

I guess I think of rx foods as a necessary evil of sorts. Like medicine. I agree with you Emily that crf cats often will reject the k/d and other kidney diets because of the low protein. So why then does my healthy cat always try to eat Schweppie's dry k/d? (I'm saying this in jest not arguing a point) p

Two of my cats barely eat wet food. They eat a few mouthfuls and walk away. I thought of forcing them over but figure that's not a good idea.

SweetPea24 said:

I think that is the point of hills and Medi-cal doing tons of.research. Their.study on k/d looked at the survival rate of crf cats being fed k/d vs a regular maintenance diet. The cats who ate k/d survived longer.

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Ahhh, but have you seen the parameters of the study? What exactly was the "maintenance diet"? Likely something higher in poor quality protein (ie plants/by-products), which can indeed tax compromised kidneys. Ergo, by lowering the amount of poor quality protein that a CRF kitty has to process, it's entirely feasible that they might live longer. But put these protein-restricted diets up against something with high quality meat protein (even better if it's raw), and I'd bet the farm K/D would lose. Of course we'll never actually see such research take place because protein restricted diets are practically the bread-and-butter of "prescription" pet food manufacturers. Dr Karen Becker sums up the low-protein myth in this video: The Nutrient Your Pet Needs More Of As They Age

You might also want to check out the book Not Fit for a Dog: The Truth About Manufactured Dog and Cat Food, which goes into great detail about why the so-called research behind prescription pet foods is a total sham.

 

Sugarcatmom said:

Ahhh, but have you seen the parameters of the study? What exactly was the "maintenance diet"? Likely something higher in poor quality protein (ie plants/by-products), which can indeed tax compromised kidneys. Ergo, by lowering the amount of poor quality protein that a CRF kitty has to process, it's entirely feasible that they might live longer. But put these protein-restricted diets up against something with high quality meat protein (even better if it's raw), and I'd bet the farm K/D would lose. Of course we'll never actually see such research take place because protein restricted diets are practically the bread-and-butter of "prescription" pet food manufacturers. Dr Karen Becker sums up the low-protein myth in this video: The Nutrient Your Pet Needs More Of As They Age

You might also want to check out the book Not Fit for a Dog: The Truth About Manufactured Dog and Cat Food

, which goes into great detail about why the so-called research behind prescription pet foods is a total sham.

 

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I agree that the low protein idea is a myth. Many vets are accepting that it is a myth as well. And I am aware that this research that these companies do is not on the up and up so to speak. Even research for non-rx is spurious at best. I have said I'm not a fan of rx foods and the marketing that these companies do. I'm not a big fan of any marketing that the pet food industry does. However, I'm not about to feed my crf cat a high protein food homemade, raw or canned. At iris stage III, he needs a moderate level of protein and a phosphorus binder to reduce the aMount of phosphorus that goes through his kidneys. I feed him mostly non-rx foods and he isn't doing too badly considering there are other cats with crf who are eating the rx foods and taking a lot more meds. Phosphorus is detrimental to his kidneys and there are so many other things to consider than just his BUN and Creatinine levels. Even Dr. Hodgkins gives meds to her.crf.patients as soon as they are diagnosed.

I would really like to see some real, truly empirical studies on non-rx diets vs rx diets. But that is a pipe dream. I'm just trying to find a balance between what I believe e and what I read at work. It makes me feel better when I read that some vets refuse to sell the rx diets or they sell some foods like wellness or evo. utter like rx foods, they will not work for every animal or condition. So even some vets are coming around.