Riley is in the beginning stages of renal failure

RAFM said:

Yes, please don't worry, our cabinets are filled with TONS of different kitty foods. We are pros at the 'eat anything' game. Unfortunately, we've done it more times than we'd like to as we take in older and/or sick kitties and provide their end of life care.
I'm going to pick up Riley's fluids this afternoon and get those started, hopefully that will kick-start his appetite too. Poor little man, all he wants is to sit in my lap....I have to get up to get ready for work but when I move him he just cries and cries and won't stop until he's in my lap again. I hate making him get up.

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The "eat anything" game is for cats who have advanced so far they no longer benefit from a reduced amount of protein or refuse to eat k/d. In the early stages, you should ONLY feed the k/d - no treats, no toppers, no mixing - and of course it should be wet because he is dehydrated if you can see his bones. If he refuses to eat k/d exclusively, it is useless.

EmilyMayWilcha said:

The "eat anything" game is for cats who have advanced so far they no longer benefit from a reduced amount of protein or refuse to eat k/d. In the early stages, you should ONLY feed the k/d - no treats, no toppers, no mixing - and of course it should be wet because he is dehydrated if you can see his bones. If he refuses to eat k/d exclusively, it is useless.

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But if he refuses k/d, he has to eat something. One good thing Riley does do is drink a lot of water. He will be sound asleep, wake up, get a drink of water and go back to sleep. DH keeps a water dish on his desk just for Riley. I am ordering a fountain for the kitchen (our cat tree is in the eat-in kitchen area and he sleeps there a lot during the weekends and evenings when we are in the living room.

Many pets ago, DH and I agreed to quality of life over quantity. We do absolutely everything we can for our friends and go further than most anyone I know to keep them healthy and provide for their needs as they age. If they refuse food, we work to find them a food they will eat, no matter what. With my DH working from home, he attempts feedings all day long, just to get enough nutrients in the kitty. Our Bogey was 18 when he came to us and thru my DH's diligence, we got 3 amazing years out of that guy. When he would get sick, DH would push food on him all day,I would come home and administer fluids, antibiotics and all the other meds he was on. It's exhausting but in the end, their companionship deserves our fullest effort.

RAFM said:

But if he refuses k/d, he has to eat something. One good thing Riley does do is drink a lot of water. He will be sound asleep, wake up, get a drink of water and go back to sleep. DH keeps a water dish on his desk just for Riley. I am ordering a fountain for the kitchen (our cat tree is in the eat-in kitchen area and he sleeps there a lot during the weekends and evenings when we are in the living room.
Many pets ago, DH and I agreed to quality of life over quantity. We do absolutely everything we can for our friends and go further than most anyone I know to keep them healthy and provide for their needs as they age. If they refuse food, we work to find them a food they will eat, no matter what. With my DH working from home, he attempts feedings all day long, just to get enough nutrients in the kitty. Our Bogey was 18 when he came to us and thru my DH's diligence, we got 3 amazing years out of that guy. When he would get sick, DH would push food on him all day,I would come home and administer fluids, antibiotics and all the other meds he was on. It's exhausting but in the end, their companionship deserves our fullest effort.

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I thought I was clear the k/d instructions go out the window if Riley won't eat it. Of course I don't want Riley to starve himself if he does not like k/d. I was just saying if he will eat it, you can't feed him anything else in addition to that. Sorry if there was a misunderstanding.

CRF can be tricky. In some cats it progresses slowly and they can live for several years. Others, like Wilbur, get worse so quickly nothing can help them. Wilbur was diagnosed in September and euthanized December 1 after getting hospice care for two weeks. Believe me, I saw a vet cry when she said it was time to let him go to heaven.

Tomorrow is surgery day. I'm worried about my little guy but I know his vet is wonderful and wouldn't do anything to harm him. My plans for tomorrow night are to sit on the couch and let him lay in my lap the entire night if he wants. Tomorrow willbe a long day. /sigh

This is the dental surgery?

LDG said:

This is the dental surgery?

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Yes ma'am it is. Thanks for the vibes!

Yeah, it's really hard not to worry, especially when there's other health issues going on. Chum had to have three extractions. But he did just fine despite my worrying. Riley will too!!!! and more !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aw...my heart goes out to you and Riley. My Tuffy was diagnosed when he was a little over 2-years-old, and we battled this crummy disease for 5-1/2 years before he had to leave us in July of 2004. It can be quite the roller coaster ride, but so worth it! Sorry, this is kinda long...

I would not feed K/D to a CRF/CKD kitty. Period. Restricting protein--an important dietary requirement that an obligate (true) carnivore needs--is so old school and a lot of vets do NOT suggest this nowadays. Even back when Tuffy was diagnosed with CRF, restricting protein didn't make sense to me--and Tuffy was in an advanced stage when diagnosed. I was devastated, but resolved to help my baby boy. I pursued the diet angle and read everything I could get my hands on. I ditched the kibble and didn't feed K/D, but did go to canned foods without grains in them that contained real meat. (I didn't learn about raw feeding until 2005, too late for Tuffy.) By restricting protein you set them up for using their own stores of needed nutrients from their own muscles and organs, and they begin wasting away--they are basically starved to death. I found Helen's site for her kitty Tanya, and that gave me a starting point for choosing foods and a LOT of other helpful information.

I wanted foods lower in phosphorus, but not protein, as higher phos in foods leads kitties to not feeling well because their kidneys can not handle processing it, and CRF/CKD will progress faster. Something we want to avoid for our babies. I think someone posted Helen's site already, but here it is again just in case (to the page that talks about food): http://www.felinecrf.org/which_foods.htm FWIW, I would not feed any of the foods with grain in them that she has listed, but this gives you an idea of some foods with lower phos since I'm pretty sure you don't want to go to raw food for Riley at his age.

You can also use phos binders in food, which I eventually did when Tuffy had to eat, low phos or not, so it was foods like Fancy Feast, etc. towards the end (quality protein went out the window too, but I would know what to do now <sigh>). Bottom line, they need to eat.

Tuffy, for being such a little guy (was 13lbs before diagnosis, 10lbs at diagnosis), was quite fractious when it came to sub-Q fluids. So...I also added as much water to his food as he would accept. I also gave him droppers of 5-10mL of water a few times a day (he didn't like syringing, but accepted a dropper with water in it--or mama holding a glass for him to drink from--oh man, the memories ). If I could give him his daily sub-Q's I did (using the old 'clothes pin' trick ), but didn't sweat it if I was close to the amount of sub-Q fluids I would have given. I also checked his hydration to see if he actually needed more water.

I do NOT agree with your vet on doing sub-Q once a month. Here's why: CRF/CKD kitties have very dilute urine, and become dehydrated as a result. Keeping them hydrated is very important and helps them to excrete toxins that build up. The ideal way, IMO, to increase their hydration is adding water to food and syringing mL of water as often as kitty will accept during the day. If you do go the sub-Q route I would do it daily or at the least every other day. I would use Terumo needles--most of the vet ones provide are like pitch forks and hurt, although some vets these days actually have Terumo's. Terumo's go in like butter. I would also limit any sub-Q amount to 5-10mL per pound of kitty's weight. Too much sub-Q fluids can cause problems with their heart, fluid retention, etc. Quick story: Once Tuffy had to go to the vet for IV administered fluids because he had a crash. That would have been fine, but they WAY overdid the fluids! Tuffy came home with fluid leaking from his little eyes, nose, mouth, and his little paws, arms, and legs were four times the size. He coughed and coughed (not a good sign--heart!!). I called my vet and gave them strict orders to NEVER do that again. Moderation is the key, not excess as was done to my poor baby.

I would go the oral administration route if you can: Extra water in food and small amounts syringed throughout the day to get to the 5-10mL quantity--per pound of kitty's weight.

For information on food, treatments, and some of the supplements that I gave Tuffy, you can visit this site for some great info: http://www.holisticat.com/crf.html Sandy is well-versed in CRF/CKD, and since I'm more "holistically-minded," you might find some info you can use too. You'll see my sweet Tuffy, with is missing foot and half a tail (from frostbite that developed after he came to me rescued from a cemetery with Abby), on the first page...aw, this mama misses him so much! He was my little soul mate kitty.

Gosh, I could write so much more, but am trying not to overwhelm you.

Wow - thank you whollycat, that is a ton of information! I will check out those sites. And you don't have to worry about us feeding the k/d or any of the speciality diets, Riley won't touch them. :lol3:

We got him some FussyCat yesterday and he ate that OK. What he really devours is his Greenies. He's lost some more weight so we are giving him those in the hopes of putting a little weight on him again. We'll see.

I remember feeding Sven Temptations by the handfuls.  That's what he liked, so that's what he got   And I always added extra water to his food too, but, thankfully, he drank lots of water.  I think we had 5 water bowls plus the fountain when he was still alive, and he went from room to room drinking out of all of them.  Then when I started giving him freeze dried chicken breasts, he started drinking even more! 

Well he doesn't get to come home tonight. he isn't waking up from surgery very well so they are keeping him there to watch him. I'm pretty sad about it.

Oh hun, I am sorry.... Tons of vibes for him to get better in no time.... He is in a good place to be watched over though..... I know how heartbreaking it is to be away and worried though

Oh hun!!!! I'm so sorry! Just mega heaps of vibes that he's just a little slow coming out of it, and tomorrow morning they'll call you with the happy news! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LDG said:

Oh hun!!!!

I'm so sorry! Just mega heaps of vibes that he's just a little slow coming out of it, and tomorrow morning they'll call you with the happy news!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Just catching up with this thread, and yes I hope you get better news tomorrow and you can bring him home

Thanks for the vibes everyone. I know he'll be fine, he has to be.

This happened 2 years ago with our big dog and it stressed me out to no end. But he was at home with me (I never went back to that vet, long story) so I at least got to snuggle him all night kiss him on his head until he finally came to 24 hours post -surgery. Riley-man is at the hospital and I can't kiss his head (even though he hates it).

Yes, tomorrow will be good news and then I'll fight through the stupid meeting someone scheduled at 3 on a FRIDAY afternoon and then fly out of there to go pick him up.

just wondering how he is today?

Yes, any word? :cross: !!!!!

Thanks for checking in. Work blew up this afternoon so I'm just now getting home with him.

He's very mad at me and keeps running from me so DH is trying to get him to eat a little. He has been drinking almost nonstop since he got home too. I haven't looked in his mouth yet, figure I'll wait until I have to give him his medicine in a bit. He looks sad so we have to give him plenty of lap and love until he's back to the irritable little Riley we know and love.

But he's HOME! When Chum had three extractions in April, he drank a lot of water. It was disconcerting, because he NEVER drinks water. But he was back to normal in a couple of days. :nod: He slept a lot those first couple of days.

Continued vibes for your angry little man. :lol3: And more for you.

Thanks Laurie. I'm actually very concerned about him tonight. He won't eat. We have opened 5 cans of food and he won't even take a lick. Picking him up he is noticeably lighter. If he doesn't eat before bedtime I'll force food. I need to weigh him but I'm nervous to do it, plus, I don't want to disturb him any more than I have to.