Caught a Feral Mom and her Five babies...

pandabbit

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I posted on another forum but it seems more dead over there, responses seem a touch low. This forum had more life and less difficulty to become back of. Anyway, what I posted over there:

So, I'm not new to cat ownership. I've never lived without a cat. Ever. My house has always had 2-3 cats.

I'm not BIG into cats, I couldn't tell you breeds or what have you. I do love my cats.



^That's my Jack and Lily, stray kittens another couple found and gave to my ex and I. Lily has her arm around Jack. Don't let the innocent looks fool you, they've annihilated my bedroom in order to assassinate a fly (they succeeded after about 45 minutes).

Anyway, my mom's dogs have been going crazy trying to get behind our shed in the backyard. We thought we had another rat, rabbit, possum, mouse, squirrel,or skunk under there again (we've had them all). Figuring to chase it out we locked the dogs inside and pull apart the trash can, tool, and wood pile my pack rat of an uncle keeps back there. We found a mama cat and her five kittens.

Mama cat was reluctant to run so we caught her and the kittens quite easily. She hissed but not much of a fight was put up. Mama cat is very underfed. I would put her a peg above completely malnourished, but definitely way below a healthy weight.

This all occurred a few hours ago. Hence no vet visit til tomorrow (technically today in a few hours). My friend is a volunteer at PAWs, the last non-kill shelter in Philadelphia, so we're going to see what they can do for us.

After putting mom and kittens in a big old ferret cage (she has plenty of room to move around, a perch to temporarily escape the kittens, litter box and feeding area) we fed her. She's got no problem pigging down food. I gave her a can of wet (what I have on hand...I'll have to make a stop for better food tomorrow as well) and she gobbled it down. I hand fed her some dry kibble as well to test out her personality. She ate from my hand and allowed me to pet her and rewarded me with extremely loud purring. She even allowed me to handle her kittens while I put the rest of the dry in a bowl and she continued to purr the whole time. I had feared she'd be feral because we do have a colony across the street and often we see cats running around.

Now I know you're supposed to feed nursing cats extra high quality food, as much as they want. But what in the case of a cat you can feel it's bones? I mean, starving animals need to be carefully regulated to not over eat and thus make themselves sick, if I remember correctly anyway. I was going to feed Mama cat a full can every 8 hours with some dry kibble snacking in between. Too much? Too little?

I like multiple opinions. Mama cat looks about 6 months herself, she's tiny and definitely not full grown. Kittens eyes look freshly opened, all five have opened their eyes so I'm guessing 10-14 days old.



^Kittens. 3 almost all black, one black with strips, and the oddball orange cat (onoes a ginger kid!).



^Mama cat chowing down. Extremely eager to eat, poor thing. Even when we caught her and put her in a smaller carrier to bring inside my uncle gave her a slice of lunch meat that she gobbled down while howling for her kittens.
 

mrblanche

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It looks like she's been doing a pretty good job feeding the kittens, probably at the expense of her own nutrition.

I would give her as much as she wants to eat, and kitten food if possible.  She may overeat, a little, but probably not much and not for long, once she realizes there will be more later.

You're doing a saint's work here, you know.
 
 

happykitty

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Ah, well done!  This happened to me several years ago when I found a mom and 5 kittens under our shed.  In my case the momma also turned out to not be feral, but the kittens were 9 weeks old and needed much work to be socialized.  In the end we did the job and they all were adopted properly.  Your guess on their age seems correct.  So nice you have them now and they will be well socialized.

You can fatten momma up by giving her as much as she can eat of good quality kitten food.  Also add to that some KMR kitten formula, this will give her even more calories and nutrition.  Keep us updated :)
 
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pandabbit

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I shall keep you guys updated.

She's still eating fine and now when she hears me coming she starts meowing like crazy then stops when I reach in to pet her and give her food. The meowing becomes loud purring.

She uses the litter box but she makes a mess and doesn't cover up after herself. She's spilled her water dish (and trust me, its a heavy dish). So she's a bit messy.

She's also slowed down her eating; she hasn't stopped but she doesn't gobble it down like she may never see another meal again. She takes her time.

Kittens seem fine. Orange one already looks like he's going to be trouble. Mom tries to eat and he's struggling to get into the food bowl mewing til I move him properly under her and he latches on to her for his own dinner.

Edit: And it's good to know I can feed her...I remember taking in a dog before that we rehomed who was malnourished. We had to be careful feeding her because she over ate quickly then vomited it all up. I didn't want Moma cat getting sick from the same thing.
 
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iris

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Perhaps you can get some kitten formula..KMR and supplement..at least until Mama gets a little meat on her bones
 

arlo haarsma

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I only know about human physiology, but you may want to google "refeeding syndrome" as it is a very real concern in humans.  Not sure about cats, but here is the premise.  A person starves for a long period of time so the body compensates in a nearly magical way maintaining nutrient levels respectable in the blood.  Blood work will come back with great levels and everything will look fine until you feed that person a meal.  What happens in humans is the body now begins to slam food into the cells in response to the underlying starvation state.  With intra and intercellular nutrients severely diminished in order to maintain good serum nutrient levels your body soon begins to run out of necessary substrates for the process of metabolism, and you see levels start to go out of whack.  This is a huge concern with recovering anorectics as well as rescued individuals who have been starving for days.  You only have to starve for 3 days before refeeding syndrome becomes a concern....well 4 days depending on who you talk to.  In humans it is critical that you renourish instead of refeed.  This is a matter of life and death.  Like I said earlier I do not know a whole lot about cat physiology however I would be looking into it simply based on the critical nature of refeeding syndrome in humans.  It is likely not the same thing and almost certainly not as critical in a cat however it does warrant some investigation.  Maybe someone on here knows a bit more about that.  I have found many very wise sages on this forum since I have been here.  Also, refeeding syndrome may not begin to yield symptoms for as long as 4-5 days. 

Gosh please don't think of me as a fear monger...I am a nurse, which means I am always working even when I am not.  I know cats are not humans, but maybe someday something I know may help someone with a cat.
 

arlo haarsma

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I would contact my vet to be sure.  I found a couple of peer reviewed studies on refeeding syndrome in cats and although not as severe as in humans it is still a concern and can be life threatening.  I urge you to not allow momma cat to eat whatever she wants and as much as she wants until you get an all clear from your vet. 

http://cp.vetlearn.com/Media/PublicationsArticle/SOC_10_04_6.pdf

http://www.felipedia.org/~felipedi/wiki/index.php?title=Refeeding_syndrome

I hope these help.  Those little bundles of beautiful need their mommy.
 
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pandabbit

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From a general check up they seem to be well. Mom poops and pees what I suppose would be considered normal for a Momma cat (so the vet assures me, she's a pooping machine).

Momma cat is under weight but her food response is positive (as in she's now pacing herself). Kittens are chubby little cherubs and feed greedily.

They're still a bit dirty, I didn't really ask but what can you really do about cleaning them up a little? Mom has the kittens cleaned, but she's a little dirty herself. Where they were found was in a muddy little hidden space. I really don't want to stress her out with a bath or anything. I was barely able to pick her up for a minute before she panicked and wanted back down.

Cage is clean (again...mom cat is a messy litter box user).

Mom was not really so much malnorished as just really skinny...and that'll be taken care of. We're a family of fat people and pets (though we're trying to slim it down...).

It's only been a little over 24 hours so time will tell.

Got a lot of people interested in the kittens, though some I'm not thrilled about (notorious kitten lovers that ditch them as adults).
 

orientalslave

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So glad you found this girl and her kittens and took them in.

Sounds like she is doing very well.  You can use a clean damp cloth to clean them up a bit.

The kittens look a good size, certainly not newborn.  Their ears have unfolded and you say their eyes are open, so I'd say they are 2-3 weeks old.  If you are saying that they are starting to crawl into her food bowl, that is normal and it's how kittens wean themselves and I've seen that happening at any age from 3-6 weeks.  With a friends pedigree cat that had 8 kittens it happened earlier than with her previous litter of 6.

You could put her litter tray in a large cardboard box to contain some of the scatter!  But once the kittens are clearly starting to eat solids, you need a tray they can get into.  In fact you might need quite a few trays - when they realise they need to go, it's Right Now and a tray needs to be close to hand.

Did you discuss flea and worm treatment with the vets?  If she has worms they won't help her put condition back on, and the kittens need worming as well.

Personally I would avoid supplementing the kittens.  Whilst mum is thin, it sounds like she is holding her own and also the kittens will be starting on solids soon.  Bottle-feeding kittens is an art, newborns don't have a cough reflex and I don't know what age it develops at, but without it if you feed too fast then milk goes down the wrong way.  :(

Try to handle each kitten briefly each day, don't hold them out of mum's sight and put it back if it or mum gets upset, but try to gradually increase and let the kittens get used to being stroked and petted.  As they start getting mobile you can start playing with them as well and giving them a few toys.  Hopefully since you are the supply of food mum will get very trusting with you, very quickly.  

Lots of great information on the FAB's website:

http://www.fabcats.org/behaviour/understanding/kitten.html
 
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pandabbit

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I'm going through PAWs and I can't afford much just yet. Gotta wait til I'm paid. Even with PAWs being cheap. So it's only cursory til next weekend. Momma cat looks pretty good and it seems fine to wait a week so I can afford something more thorough.

Only orange is trying to crawl into the food dish. The others don't stray. Moma cat seems thrilled when I take them all out and give her food (I place them in a box near the food dish but the box sides are high enough to keep the kittens from harassing her while she eats). Mom cat eats better when she's being petted. A cheek scratch gets the purr motor going and she'll eat, but if I step away from the cage she just sorta sits back and stares.

Vet says as long as everything seems regular should be fine to wait a week to move further.

She's a really pretty cat. Her babies look like normal every day cats, but I never seen one like her before.
 

StefanZ

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Originally Posted by

I gave her a can of wet (what I have on hand...I'll have to make a stop for better food tomorrow as well)
It is easier to make a decent wet food than a decent dry food. Thus chances are this your wet food, although probably nothing fancy, is better than most dry foods.

So, as she ates wet food, my advice is you proceed with it, unless you get hold on a really good dry food.  :)  Have wet food as main food, and dry food as extras or night snacks.

About the amounts. Looking from the pictures, she already got quite a lot, more than the recommended "small portions in the beginning,  but often"so the deed is already done. But she didnt got any diarrhea nor heavy threwing up, as are the most common negative reaction, so lets hope for the best.

Feral or dumped?  Her being rather friendly and allowing you handle her and kittens doesnt say in itself very much.  Many semiferales do accept help from humans, when they realize the human doesnt have evil purposes against them and really IS trying to help. The welfare of the children is more important for them than "freedom" and thus they do copy and tries to please themselves in as well as they can.  This way, even semiferale cat moms are alike human moms.  A real ferale would prob accept help too (spec as knowing she was in difficulties), and try to copy, but be way more distrusting. Oh yea.

But here, the total picture hints she had a home once; but went astray or got dumped.

If nothing else, a successful semiferale wouldnt not be as undernourished.

Tx a lot for helping them!

Welcome to the TCS site and our Forums!

Good luck!    *vibes*
 

happykitty

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Oh yes, good points that I overlooked about reintroducing food.  That is true that in the first 2 days after rescue, you will want to manage the feedings if she is really thin and shows verocious appetitie.  Small meals spread out is best, and if there is vomiting you will have to back off.  Diarrhea will be somewhat normal within a few days of introducing new food, but if it persisits you will want to get a fecal done.  Either way there are dewormers from the vet you can get that are safe for nursing moms.  After her body adjusts, then you may free feed since she is still nursing.  It is almost impossible for a nursing mom with kittens that age to become overweight.  When she is done nursing, then you start to introduce scheduled feeding with the appropriate amount. 
 
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pandabbit

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I was thinking of a wet kitten formula or some such.

The massive amount you see in the pictures I removed when she got halfway through and made her wait a half hour before giving her the rest. Since the second meal she's slowed down a lot, she'll eat a portion, sit back for a bit, eat more, and repeat. Poops have been solid and abundant. So has pee. In comparison to my own cats it looks normal.

She looks to be 6 months or under in age, I didn't think people would dump them that quickly. We also have several different feral locations that I can walk to within 5 minutes of my yard.

I have to say she looks an awful lot like this cat I nick named Pirate. I'm guessing Pirate is male, I see him on my exercise jogs and sometimes I stop to pet him. He's black and brownish orange like her, he has a giant brown patch over one eye hence the nick name. He's too massive to be the same cat, not just weight wise.

I would not be surprise if the ferals around here are friendly to people though, one colony is next to a church that feeds them, and the other smaller one is next to an Uno's restaurant that probably feeds them.
 

happykitty

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If you see another tortie cat, it must be a female (perhaps rare cases of male but almost always female).  So Pirate is likely another tortie female from you description.  A note about cat colonies, if people feed and don't trap and neuter, that is a bad mix.  That way they keep breeding more than they would if people don't feed them.  Is it possible to get a local resuce group involved to trap and neuter the cats?  Otherwise, this scenerio will repeat itself many times over. 
 
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pandabbit

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I couldn't give you enough details about their feeding them at all. The church used to be a movie theater so the cats were often fed, you'd always see them in the parking lot. It became a church and I was working across the lot at a shopping store and I'd see people still feeding them. I never asked if Uno's feeds the colony next to them, I just know I seen a couple different cats there. I would assume a restuarant is feeding them, even against policy. I could ask sometime this week.

These colonies have never been out of hand, they've been there for the last 2 decades I've been here. We have a lot of hawks and at one point I seen a hawk grab a kitten. Lately we've had a huge rabbit explosion.

I'll try to ask and poke around. The one lot next to Uno's with the smaller colony is eventually supposed to be paved over for a gas station, but who knows when that'll happen. The woods near the church are a long stretch that connect multiple woods via a creek.
 

happykitty

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I see, it seems there may be a balance there.  However, if we can prevent the births of unwanted pets, then that would spare them a painful life and death.  Even if you were just to alert a local rescue group, they might be able to trap, neuter, and release. 

Make sure to keep momma separated from your other babies until checked for FIV/feline leukemia and dewormed. 
 
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pandabbit

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Yes, Moma cat and her babies are in the basement, everyone else is a floor or two up. Good thing we got them in, really bad storms lately. The area she was in is slightly flooded.

I was using another cat forum to discuss this as I said previously. They banned me for posting on the thread saying "Momma Cat and kittens are fine. Wish them luck in their future for finding homes. I will not be coming back here so I figured those who posted should know they're doing ok." -They banned me as posting a suicide note and deleted everything I did over there. Several posts were sort of important. Glad I found this forum.
 

happykitty

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Hmm, sorry you had a bad experience over there.  I'm sure momma cat appreciates having a warm dry home right now. 
 
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pandabbit

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Mom cat is getting really soft and fluffy. Originally her fur was dirty and had sort of a sheep wool kind of texture. Kittens have always been soft. Now the kittens are starting to sit up and even stand for a little before they fall over. Shouldn't be long til they're trouble.
 
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pandabbit

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Kittens are doing well. I can even feel moma cat putting some meat on her bones. For once she didn't polish off her dish too (began feeding her every 6 hours as much wet as she could eat in 30 minutes). Litter box use is normal. Kittens are beginning to walk a tiny bit.
 
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