how do i diet my cat

lauraanne · Jun 1, 2012

Rosie is 2 1/2 and getting a bit tubby! i adopted her just after christmas as she wasnt getting on with the cat/couple she was living with. i think at first i was trying to get her to bond with me by being generous with treats and food but now 6 months later, we are completly bonded but she needs to loose about a kilo acording to the vet. She isnt too keen on going outside, only if the weather is nice and just for a little explore, shes a complete homebody. She plays alot in the house.

i feed her 2x85g pouches a day - plus about 50g dry food, plus a handful of dreamies treat or equivelent. Is this too much? the wrong thing? help please!

carolina · Jun 1, 2012

Yep.... Cut the dry food and the treats..... That will do it :nod:

lauraanne · Jun 1, 2012

but wont she be hungry in between - when im at work?

carolina · Jun 1, 2012

You can feed her a bit more of wet (not much) and make it 3 meals: right before you go to work, right after you come back from work, and a late night meal, before you go to bed- I feed raw, and thats how I feed my cats.
Then in time, you can reduce to twice a day, if you want.... But your kitty won't need more food than those 2 pouches.... Not really.....
Oh, try changing your food to a grain free canned.... Low carbs, mire satisfying and nutritious.... Carbs do nothing to kitties but make them fat....

lauraanne · Jun 1, 2012

that makes sense, I dont eat carbs! Thats some good advice and will try that. Thanks

ldg · Jun 1, 2012

:nod: Yep, cats are obligate carnivores and have no nutritional requirement for carbs. They're designed to eat protein, fat (and bones and organs LOL). A high protein, moist diet will make her feel satisfied and help her lose weight.

just mike · Jun 1, 2012

A quick quote from an article from Waltham - http://www.walthamusa.com/articles/f-liver.pdf

- Excerpt - "Carbohydrates are not essential in the cat’s diet, however they are a useful source of energy and
certain fibers may also have a beneficial impact on gastrointestinal health. The liver plays a key role
in the carbohydrate metabolism"

carolina · Jun 1, 2012

Sorry, but it is well known that cats are obligates carnivores - they simply can not metabolize grains, fruits and vegetables (where the carbs in commercial diets come from) - those have no place in their diet; they do not have the necessary enzymes necessary to digest those foods - they are made to eat meat.

***It needs to be noted that WALTHAM is owned by Pedigree, and contracted to do research for brands such as Nutro, company which Nutromike works for.....

carolina · Jun 1, 2012

To the OP: Per my holistic vet, your cat should not lose more than 1lb a month..... I highly recommend you weighing him once a week. If you have a digital scale at home, weight yourself with him on your lap, then without him, and subtract the weight - the difference is his weight.

If by cutting the weight he starts losing too much weight (more than 4oz/week), increase the amount of wet food into his diet. You want him to lose weight slowly and steadily. If he loses too much, add a little back -if he stops losing, reduce his intake ever so slightly.

Losing too much weight too fats can put them into a risk of fatty liver disease

ldg · Jun 2, 2012

NutroMike said:
A quick quote from an article from Waltham - http://www.walthamusa.com/articles/f-liver.pdf

- Excerpt - "Carbohydrates are not essential in the cat’s diet, however they are a useful source of energy and

certain fibers may also have a beneficial impact on gastrointestinal health. The liver plays a key role

in the carbohydrate metabolism"

:lol3: So funny. Waltham, which conducts studies to help pet food manufacturers formulate foods (and they need to conserve costs) finds the positives of carbs and fiber - neither of which cats need nor do well with. (The link is to something published in 1999).

On the 2nd of this month, Dr. Becker (at Mercola) blogged about a recently published study on fiber in cat food:

I’m assuming at some point a pet food manufacturer will take these study results and spin them into a marketing campaign for a new ‘weight management’ kibble for cats.

‘Low fat’ and ‘weight management’ pet diets often contain huge amounts of fiber, so it’s in the interest of pet food companies to find types of fiber they can build advertising promotions around. If a study shows, for example, that sugarcane fiber “favors glucose metabolism” or that beet pulp fiber “improves gut health,” pet food marketers can use those results to position their products as beneficial.

The fallacy of the thing is that if a cat is fed a diet of species-inappropriate dry kibble for any length of time, it’s entirely possible a little tweak here or there in the ingredients can result in small improvements in certain measures. However, the overriding fact remains that not only are cats not built to digest fiber, the presence of fiber also hinders their ability to digest and absorb other nutrients and energy provided by the food.

(emphasis added)

http://healthypets.mercola.com/site.../02/fiber-rich-diets-for-overweight-cats.aspx

ldg · Jun 2, 2012

According to Dr. Debra L. Zoran, a clinical assistant professor of Small Animal Medicine and Surgery at Texas A&M University College of Veterinary Medicine & Biomedical Sciences,

“Cats are not only carnivores but they are obligate carnivores, meaning they require additional protein and other nutrients that are only present in animal tissue”, said Zoran.

Zoran explained that cats utilize protein for energy, even in the face of large amounts of carbohydrates in the diet.

“Because cats lack salivary amylase and have low concentrations of other carbohydrate-digesting enzymes, digestion of sugars is very inefficient in cats,” explained Zoran. “When it comes to cat food, extra carbohydrates only mean extra calories, which, if not burned for energy, are stored as fat.”

http://tamunews.tamu.edu/2011/04/01/low-carb-for-cats/

An analysis of the numerous studies done on feral cat diets by Plantinga et al. (27 studies analyzed out of 55 considered. They used the studies where cats did not have access to garbage, where studies lasted longer than a year, and that had over 100 cats, resulting in over 6,000 data points) indicated that the natural carbohydrate consumption of cats was just 2%.

The results show that feral cats are obligatory carnivores, with their daily energy intake from crude protein being 52 %, from crude fat 46 % and from N-free extract only 2 %. Minerals and trace elements are consumed in relatively high concentrations compared with recommended allowances determined using empirical methods. The calculated nutrient profile may be considered the nutrient intake to which the cat's metabolic system has adapted.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22005434

Plantinga EA, Bosch G, Hendriks WH. Estimation of the dietary nutrient profile of free-roaming feral cats: possible implications for nutrition of domestic cats. Br J Nutr. 2011 Oct;106 Suppl 1:S35-48.

We can feed our cats carbohydrates. But they are not built to properly metabolise them, utilize them, or thrive on them.

orientalslave · Jun 7, 2012

My tubby cat lost 400g in a year simply through going out (no diet change), once I had finished cat-proofing my back garden. Play really helps, and if she likes a laser pen it's a really easy way to give her exercise. So are toys on a string on a rod (Da Bird for example), and if you live in a house with stairs the stair game can be great fun. You stand at the bottom of the stairs, get her attention, and throw a ping pong ball up. Hopefully she chases up after it and back down. You need stairs with a right-angle part-way up, or at the top, for this to work so it bounces the ball back down.

siberian kitty · Jun 7, 2012

You could go back to your old diet but cut your portions in half. Maybe start cutting back 1/4 at a time.

carolina · Jun 7, 2012

Siberian Kitty said:
You could go back to your old diet but cut your portions in half. Maybe start cutting back 1/4 at a time.

you don't cut the kitty's food intake in 1/2 - that's asking for trouble..... flat out dangerous...... Cat weight loss needs to be done very slowly otherwise you risk liver disease

just mike · Jun 7, 2012

Carolina said:
Sorry, but it is well known that cats are obligates carnivores - they simply can not metabolize grains, fruits and vegetables (where the carbs in commercial diets come from) - those have no place in their diet; they do not have the necessary enzymes necessary to digest those foods - they are made to eat meat.
***It needs to be noted that WALTHAM is owned by Pedigree, and contracted to do research for brands such as Nutro, company which Nutromike works for.....

Carolina would you mind quoting a scientific source stating what you just said, "they simply can not metabolize grains, fruits and vegetables (where the carbs in commercial diets come from)"? I would love to read this study or studies you've gotten this information from. Yes, cats are obligate carnivores. Waltham is not owned by Pedigree but does do research for Nutro. It should be obvious who i work for Carolina and I also list my employer in my profile. Hope that helps

just mike · Jun 7, 2012

On the 2nd of this month, Dr. Becker (at Mercola) blogged about a recently published study on fiber in cat food:

I’m assuming at some point a pet food manufacturer will take these study results and spin them into a marketing campaign for a new ‘weight management’ kibble for cats.

‘Low fat’ and ‘weight management’ pet diets often contain huge amounts of fiber, so it’s in the interest of pet food companies to find types of fiber they can build advertising promotions around. If a study shows, for example, that sugarcane fiber “favors glucose metabolism” or that beet pulp fiber “improves gut health,” pet food marketers can use those results to position their products as beneficial.

The fallacy of the thing is that if a cat is fed a diet of species-inappropriate dry kibble for any length of time, it’s entirely possible a little tweak here or there in the ingredients can result in small improvements in certain measures. However, the overriding fact remains that not only are cats not built to digest fiber, the presence of fiber also hinders their ability to digest and absorb other nutrients and energy provided by the food.

(emphasis added)

http://healthypets.mercola.com/site.../02/fiber-rich-diets-for-overweight-cats.aspx

So what point are you trying to make here Laurie? We both agree on essentially the same thing. I read this article. I get Becker's articles in my email box. There are dozens of other "doctors" out there that would dispute this "study".

The original poster was asking how to to help the cat lose weight. I think we would both agree that an all wet diet would most certainly be a much better option for weight loss than a weight loss/management kibble.

carolina · Jun 7, 2012

NutroMike said:
Carolina would you mind quoting a scientific source stating what you just said, "they simply can not metabolize grains, fruits and vegetables (where the carbs in commercial diets come from)"? I would love to read this study or studies you've gotten this information from. Yes, cats are obligate carnivores. Waltham is not owned by Pedigree but does do research for Nutro. It should be obvious who i work for Carolina and I also list my employer in my profile. Hope that helps

Sorry, Waltham is Owned by Mars, Incorporated. One of Mars brand is Pedigree..... another...... Nutro

So, Mars not only Owns Waltham, but it also owns Nutro.... If you want me to make clear why I posted that, I will, with all due respect. I do find it very biased every time you post a citation, a study from Waltham, a research institute that is not only hired to do research FOR the company you work for, but is also owned by the same parent Company Nutro is owned by. I can't help it but find that biased - I find their research biased in the first place, the same way as I find Hills reasearch FOR Hills Pet food biased towards their food. So, to me, those citations and studies have no validity, as they were hired for a purpose.

And yes, Cats as obligates carnivore do not have the necessary enzymes to metabolize grains, fruits and vegetables and get the nutrients they need from that to thrive - there is no use for it in their diet.
Survive on it - yeah......sure...... we see millions of them surviving...... Until they hit problems. Thrive - nah.

This has been discussed quite extensively here in the raw thread, but you can start by reading this... if you want http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FEEDING YOUR CAT 8-10 Long 2-12-10.pdf

this http://cats.about.com/od/catfoodfaqs/f/obligatecarnivores.htm

Hope you find Cornell to be reliable http://www.vet.cornell.edu/FHC/brochures/feedcats.html

Nutrition of the domestic cat, a mammalian carnivore. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6380542

Diet in the prevention of diabetes and obesity in companion animals. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15023591

It is not hard to find information about Cats as obligate carnivores IF you want it - it means that they are made to eat, and get their nutrition from meat.

ldg · Jun 8, 2012

NutroMike said:
On the 2nd of this month, Dr. Becker (at Mercola) blogged about a recently published study on fiber in cat food:
(emphasis added)

http://healthypets.mercola.com/site.../02/fiber-rich-diets-for-overweight-cats.aspx

So what point are you trying to make here Laurie? We both agree on essentially the same thing. I read this article. I get Becker's articles in my email box. There are dozens of other "doctors" out there that would dispute this "study".

The original poster was asking how to to help the cat lose weight. I think we would both agree that an all wet diet would most certainly be a much better option for weight loss than a weight loss/management kibble.

:scratch: I was responding to your post with this:

NutroMike said:
A quick quote from an article from Waltham - http://www.walthamusa.com/articles/f-liver.pdf

- Excerpt - "Carbohydrates are not essential in the cat’s diet, however they are a useful source of energy and certain fibers may also have a beneficial impact on gastrointestinal health. The liver plays a key rolein the carbohydrate metabolism"

I didn't understand its relevance, but because it was there, wanted to put it in perspective. The bolded part wasn't so much for the issue re: dry, but your Waltham quote about carbs providing a useful source of energy. Dr. Becker's comments were addressing her feelings that studying species-inappropriate ingredients is for tweaking diets to help with marketing spin. You posted a link to a Waltham piece about the feline liver, that had a mention in passing about beneficial carbs - IMO, a marketing spin on meaningless information because carbs don't benefit cats (unless, IMO, as in the context of Dr. Becker's blog, for tweaking what is already a species-inappropriate diet), just the cost of pet food.

Sorry for the confusion. :nod:

siberian kitty · Jun 8, 2012

Sorry for my earlier post. I should of said to very slowly cut back on your old diet. Sorry about before.

carolina · Jun 8, 2012

The formation of distinct breeds and the selection for breed-specific exterior traits over the past 50 years are unlikely to have resulted in major changes in the physiology and metabolism of certain breeds, as pedigree breeds are described as simple single-gene variants of natural breeds(10).
The domestic cat’s wild ancestors are known to be obligatory carnivores, consuming predominantly prey. The consumption of a diet composed of animal tissues throughout evolution has led to unique digestive and metabolic adaptations (often referred to as idiosyncrasies)(11 – 14). Reduction of redundant enzymes and modification of enzyme activities will have had specific advantages in terms of energy expenditure (11). Examples of these adaptations include:

(a) The high dietary protein requirement as a consequence of a limited ability to decrease the enzyme activity of amino acid-catabolising enzymes below a certain threshold in response to a lowered protein intake(11). The fact that other carnivorous animals, including fish and birds, have developed the same adaptations in protein metabolism(15 – 17) indicates an advantage to carnivorous species in general.

(b) An inability for de novo arginine synthesis because of reduced activity of two enzymes in the intestinal pathway of citrulline synthesis (pyrroline 5-carboxylate synthase and ornithine aminotransferase)(11).

(c) Two key enzymes in the pathway for taurine synthesis, namely cysteine dioxygenase and cysteinesulfinic acid decarboxylase, show low activities, thereby greatly reducing the endogenous synthesis of taurine and making this sulfonic amino acid an essential dietary nutrient for cats(11). In addition, cats and dogs use taurine almost exclusively as a source for bile acid conjugation, unlike other animals, which can use glycine when taurine is limiting(11).

(d) Cats are unable to use carotenoids to synthesise retinol because of a lack of carotene dioxygenase(11).

(e) Synthesis of vitamin D3 is prevented by the high activity of 7-dehydrocholestrol reductase, an enzyme that reduces the availability of the precursor for 25-hydroxyvitamin D(18).

(f) Cats are not able to synthesise niacin from tryptophan because of an extremely high activity of picolinic carboxylase. The activity of this enzyme is inversely related to niacin synthesis(11).

(g) Cats have a limited ability to synthesise arachidonic acid from linoleic acid, attributed to a low activity of D-6 and
D-8-desaturase(11,19).

(h) Cats show several adaptations in the metabolism of starch and glucose, including a lack of salivary amylase activity, low activity of pancreatic and intestinal amylases (20,21), low hepatic glucokinase activity(22), lack of hepatic fructokinase activity, necessary for metabolism of simple sugars(21,23) and a non-functional Tas1R2 receptor resulting in an inability to taste sugar(24).

The above-mentioned adaptations are thought to have evolved from nutrition solely based on animal tissues and highlight the carnivorous nature of cats.

Estimation of the dietary nutrient profile of free-roaming feral cats: possible implications for nutrition of domestic cats
Esther A. Plantingaa1 c1, Guido Boscha2 and Wouter H. Hendriksa1a2
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8404219

That they are descended from a specialist predator is readily apparent from their dentition (3), which is dominated by large canines, used to sever the neck vertebrae of mammalian prey, and carnassials for shearing flesh from bone; the incisors and molars are relatively small. Unlike wolves, they are exclusively solitary hunters, and therefore usually take prey with much lower body-mass than their own, necessitating several kills per day. This is reflected in the ad libitum meal-patterning of domestic cats, which take several small meals, spread throughout the 24 h of the day (24).

However, domestic cats are more fundamentally constrained in their choice of foods by the absence of certain key metabolic enzymes, which appear to have been lost in the common ancestor of all of the extant species in the cat family. These losses result in very narrowly defined nutritional requirements (25), which in the wild can be satisfied only by a diet that consists largely of vertebrate prey.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/7/1927S.long
[emoji]169[/emoji] 2006 American Society for Nutrition

The Evolutionary Basis for the Feeding Behavior of Domestic Dogs (Canis familiaris) and Cats (Felis catus)1–3

John W. S. Bradshaw4

how do i diet my cat

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