Cher hates me

I am at wits end here.  I am a car person and have been all my life.  This is the first cat I have had that acts like this.  Let me line up all the details and maybe someone here can help me get on common ground with my Cher.

it is verbose and I understand if you do not read it however I need to make sure all the details are here.

Cher is adopted.  She was at the humane society and we noticed she was 5 years old.  When we met her in the family room she was very vocal and extremely skittish however when we put her on the table and started petting her she turned into a love bug.  I do not know the words to put into a sentence to adequately describe how much Cher LOVES to be petted...she likes it more than fat kids like cake.  While we were petting here she was still vocal and very drooly...I found this charming and I begged my wife (I am a 40 year old male and she is...she is beautiful ) to let us take the cat home so we did.   She talked all the way home, which I found charming again.  Once home we took the carrier into my den (we had pre-planned this) and opened it with the french doors (full of windows) closed.  This closed off the room to give her a secure place.  She did not get out of the carrier.  2 hours later I went in there (she was talking again) and coaxed her out with silly kitty talk - I know you know what I mean.  Again once she was out and getting love she was completely oblivious to everything else.  To best describe her reaction to being pet I would say pet is akin to crack and that is not an embellishment.  At the first stroke everything else melts away.  Anyway - I digress...so we let her stay in the den for a few days because we have a Shiat-zu (sp?) as well.  There is enough space under the door they could smell each other and Cher could hear everything that was going on.  Sashi (the dog) was used to cats because our precious Purrcy had been in the house for 18 years and had recently passed on.  3 days after getting Cher we opened the den doors however she did not come out at all.  She was beginning to show signs of anxiety as well...skittish whenever I or my wife would enter even though all we did was love her.  In order to coax her to explore the house we move the litter box from the main floor to the basement (it had been in the den with her up to this point).  It worked.  She began to explore however she would hide ALL THE TIME!!!!  Sashi was a bit hesitant with her as well and did chase her twice.  Cher was much to fast and clever for Sashi so there never was any real encounter save for the initial chase.  This was all in February of this year.  Cher never adjusted to the house although she ate, drank, and used the litter box regularly.  My wife and I would have to coax her out from under something in order to pet her.  After a few weeks my wife told me that Cher would come to bed with her at night ( I worked thirds) however Cher was still deathly afraid of me (unless I was somehow able to pet her - even just one stroke).  This continued on until May when my wife went to Florida for 10 days to help her mother drive back to MIchigan.  While mom/wife was gone Sashi was at the pet hotel in our town secondary to my schedule.  After 4 days of my wife's absence Cher began to join me in bed only after much vocal activity.  Her confidence improved daily until she was following me into the bedroom when I went to bed.  Then my wife came home.  Cher loves my wife so I became nothing to her again, and Sashi went to mother in law's house (Mother In Law and my wife share ownership of the dog and Mother in law had been gone for several months.).  It was at this time that Cher began peeing in the den.  She would run away from me vocalizing all the way whenever she saw me.  My wife goes to bed before me and we soon noticed that Cher would go to bed with my wife and crawl under the sheets purring and happy as a clam.  The dog also sleeps in bed with us however the dog and cat do not fight.  When I go to bed the cat (as long as it has been there with mom for  a bit.) is not scared of me at all however she vocalizes that she knows I am there and lets me pet her at will.  Anywhere other than that bed with my wife in it and Cher runs away upon approach. 

That brings us up to today.  Yesterday my wife cleaned up the spot in the den where Cher had been urinating.  My wife indicated that area of carpet was drenched and I can tell you there are never pee-clumps in the litter box (only poop).  The only way I can pet Cher is if I go to bed with my wife which is not always possible.  Once I start petting Cher she turns to butter again even if the dog is in there however if Cher leaves the room for any reason and I follow her she would run away.

I have tried feeding her treats - she will not eat them

Every time I get a chance to pet her she turns to mush however she will run away when she first sees me if she is not in our bed.

The peeing is insane - she only pees in the den now.

I think that is everything...please let me know if you have any ideas...she does no like me unless I am in bed with her and my wife. 

catnip from me = no interest

holding by me : only in bed and only if wife is there.

help?

I am a large man however I am not at all violent or abusive.

Every other weekend my sons come over (11 and 12)

Are you louder than your wife at all?  Sometimes that can turn cats off.  

I don't think Cher actually hates you... I think there is just something that causes her to be a little afraid of you.  Perhaps before you adopted her she was abused by a male and now prefers females, thinking of them as safer.  It sounds like you are doing the right thing- if you keep on working at it, maybe one day she'll warm up to you a bit more.  If when you approach her, she runs away, don't chase her.  This will only lead to her being more frightened.  Try to talk in calm and soothing tones around her, and never yell at her.  Hope this helps a little!

About the urinating in the den- maybe she has a urinary tract infection.  How long has this been going on?  

She could also be using that spot because now it smells like her.  You will need to get your carpet cleaned or replaced to get the smell out, if it is a behavioral thing.

Arlo Haarsma, you sound like a wonderfully compassionate person and I thank you for caring so much about Cher and wanting to work things out with her.

I'll address the peeing issue first. Barring any medical reason (stress can sometimes be a factor of inappropriate elimination), would it be possible to put another litter box in the den for now? Some cats prefer a couple of litter boxes anyway because they don't want to pee and poop in the same place, and she seems to have chosen the den as her peeing spot. It's likely you can eventually move that box veeeeeeeeeeery slowly (like a foot at a time) down to the basement, but maybe until she's more comfortable with her situation it would be best to have one in the den. Also make sure both boxes are cleaned religiously (at least once a day, if not more). There is a litter called Dr. Elsey's Cat Attract that might be useful in this situation as well.

Some other things to try to help her feel more comfortable. If you can find Feliway diffusers and spray, it contains synthetic feline pheromones that convey a sense of calm and happiness. People can't smell it but cats can and for some, it helps them to overcome feelings of anxiety. I used it while integrating 3 new cats with my geriatric kitty and it worked like a charm. And a good scratching post that she can mark up with her own scent is a necessity (also provides an avenue of emotional release).

One aspect of the problem may have to do with a lack of routine. Cats thrive on routine and if you work shifts, it could be putting her on edge for now. I certainly don't expect you to quit your job!  But perhaps there are other areas that can become more routinized for Cher. For instance, feeding her at the same times every day (no more free-feeding bottomless bowls of dry food if that's the situation right now). If you're not home to do it, obviously your wife can, but I'd suggest that for those times you ARE home for that to become your task. Try making the switch to only canned if Cher is willing to go along with that (but don't push it if she isn't keen since we don't want to cause her MORE stress).

Play therapy can also be a bonding experience. I can't remember if you mentioned any toys, but see if she's interested in a variety of things like feather wand or fishing rod style toys, little fake mice or furry pompoms you can (gently) toss around, etc.  And spend some quality time sitting in the same room with her while you read out loud or talk to her so she eventually associates your voice with a sense of calmness.

One last thing: do you wear hard-soled shoes in the house? One of my cats is an ex-feral who has become quite a love-bug probably not unlike Cher (she loooooooves her some pets, let me tell you!). But if I or my husband come in the house with our shoes on, she freaks out and hides. So I suggest stocking feet and a light step if you aren't already.

Good luck!! I'm sure with time and patience, Cher will come around and realize how good she has it.

my wife moves like a ninja...I spend a lot of my time in the basement where I do homework (non traditional nursing student).  She can get down both flights of stairs without me knowing and suddenly be knocking on my wall...scares the strawberries right out of me I tell you.  I say that because I am no ninja.  I am a loud, Sicilian, large man.  I think I breathe louder than the noise of my wife walking.  I know about the voice thing...and I have a deep tenor as well...I also wear my shoes in the house because of the insoles...Lots of stuff to adjust there..

scheduling her for UTI check tomorrow...surprised at how obvious that is and yet I never thought of it...contractor coming over too as well as carpet fellas

toys mean nothing to cher...absolutely nothing.

we free feed her and we had no idea that was not a good thing...

extra litter box?  never thought of it...I never knew some cats prefer to urinate and defecate in different areas...we did recently try to move the litter box to another location in the basement because my wife thought the cat might not like to go into the corner to find it...Cher promptly peed where the box used to be...prolly only added more stress to her life didn't we?

no scratching post either...did not think she needed it what with her front claws out...I never see her rear up to scratch anything either but when we are all in bed she is rubbing everyone and everything with her face.

please do not throw things at me because what I am about to tell you could be an honest oversight...my gut tells me I have been doing the wrong thing....however I have to ask to be certain...we use scoop litter in a yellow bucket...i have only ever scooped the "meatballs out of the soup" as I tell my sons...I add fresh litter when it gets low but have never done a complete change over...after I posted my initial post I searched around a bit and found some references to an absolute need to completely change out the litter every so often...is there merit to this?  I am new to the scoop stuff...

You both are so intelligent when it comes to cats...you nailed like a dozen things right off the bat...how can I ahve had cat after cat after cat and never thought of any of these things?

litter box changed...shoes off...music on...off to store to buy new litter box.

oh...food bowl emptied out as well...will get moist food while I am there as well.

Ok..... she is declawed..... There seems to be more cases of declawed cats urinating outside of the box than those who haven't been declawed..... When was she declawed, do you know?
How long has she been peeing outside of the box?
Make sure the box is uncovered, and large..... The litter is unscented too - Cat Attract Litter is EXCELLENT - comes in a red bag....

To stop the freed feeding, don't do it all of the sudden - she just might stop eating, and that can be dangerous for a cat.... Start with several meals a day..... then reduce down the number of meals until you get to 3.
Wet food, if you can afford, is the best for your little girl.... I would get a variety of brands and flavors, cats are finicky and you want to get something she likes first.... Then you can move her onto better quality foods later.
A vet visit is an excellent idea..... make sure to get an urinalisys though - sometimes some vets will just say "kitty is ok and healthy", that won't do much to help your case....
If she has an UTI, and if the vet prescribes, refuse METACAM (Meloxicam) NO matter what - it can damage her kidneys to a point of no return.... and a lot of vets still prescribe it for pain/inflammation.
Get a good enzyme cleaner - only an enzyme cleaner will get rid of the urine odor and prevent her from urinating on that spot again. You really need to soak the carpet.... a bottle won't do much.... get a gallon. Don't spray, pour :lol3:
Get her some vertical space to get away from the dog - sounds like she is stressed out. Shelves, a window sill, or a cat tree will do wonders for her. A cat can go up, a dog won't..... She can run, jump, and watch/interact with your World from above, giving her confidence without the need to hide. For now, she is hiding and watching life from below - that makes her feel cornered and threatened.
You can install shelves on the walls for very cheap, regular book shelves will do.... Just cover them with carpet, and make sure to screw them to the wall studs. I did this in my house, and my cats LOOOOVE it!!
Make her relate you with good things..... You can do this with scent exchange..... If you exercise, go to a nice run and breat a sweat..... Then get that shirt and rub all over her..... After that, place that shirt under her food plate.
Serve her meals - make sure you do it, not your wife. She will give her love, play, etc, but from now on, you feed her.....
Last but not least, she most definitely doesn't hate you..... She sounds like a little shy/semi-feral little girl.... I have one of those..... They get startled very easily.... By loud noises, sudden movements, even by you standing up!
My Hope has been with me for over 3 years.... I still can't approach her walking - she runs away! She is the most loving cat though when I am sitting or laying down - she doesn't feel threatened. If I approach her, I need to crouch down, and extend my arm to her, let her smell my hand, then slowly approach her crawling. She then "gives me the permission" to get close and hug, love, carry her. Otherwise she will run for dear life.
That is just Hope....... But, if I am sitting on the couch...... forget it.... there is no lap cat like her!
:love:
When you adopt and older cat, you never know what they have been though in their lives..... Who did what to them..... You just know how much YOU can love them..... And little by little they get to love you just as much..... and there is no more rewarding feeling than that!
Thank you for coming to TCS and posting about your little girl, hope you stick around.... we would love to see how your relationship develops.... and pictures of her wouldn't hurt either!

While I was in the kitchen with my wife last night excitedly sharing all I had learned,talking like Mike Tyson, and standing on my tippy toes Cher decided to grace us with her presence...timidly and certainly not due to any changes I had been making.  I just thought it ironic that she had been the topic of the day and then she shows up talking to us while we prepared dinner - man is she ever loud when she wants to be.  Turns out she was looking for food, and I had gotten rid of that much earlier.  Sorry Carolina - I am new to a lot of things here.  We will make the transition gradual (from free feed to scheduled feed).  So here are the changes so far:

new litter box with lid for the den however it is in the bedroom now.  It is not in the den because we will be constructing in there to rid it of her smell and replace the drywall that is now wet with her scent.  We debated it and decided the stress of that happening in her "safe spot" is bad enough so we would only try to introduce good at this point.  Maybe we did that wrong - not sure.  so we have the covered litter box with charcoal filter and matching scooper - turquoise if you are curious.

we also purchased a knock-off Feliway diffuser.  I purchased the knock off because there were no real ones only refills.  That diffuser is in the master bathroom suite near her litter box.  Since she spends so much time in the master suite we figured it best to bring all the peace and tranquility to her as she has been through enough. 

I got a sisal scratch post with a feather toy on it

My wife is setting an appointment today for the urinalysis - thank you for the drug tip Carolina.

Last night when my wife and I finally retired to bed we were met with our usual guest - Cher.  Cher prefers to be on my wife's left side, which places her on the edge of the bed.  My wife picked her up and place her in between us, which Cher did not mind at all.  This is what we do to make sure I get some time to pet as well.  While she was rubbing and drooling all over me I wondered what her history was like and if it included a mean person.  It makes me sad to think that sort of things happens because all Cher really wants out of life is a little food and water, a place to relieve herself, and people to love, drool on, and sing to.  Her motivation driving her every action is acceptance with regard to people.  When a pet's needs are completely met there is not instinct to satisfy any fundamental programming so they are left with only one motivation - to give and get love from us...Amazing...If people were only a little more like that.  So I gave Cher a big hug and watched her trot away from me giving my wife the better view if you know what I mean.  I wiped some Cher drool off of my cheek-gave her one last good night stroke and closed my eyes.  As I said good night to my wife in my best Mike Tyson voice (she loves that by the way - lol) I heard Cher's diesel rumbling in my ear.  Ok I get it...she doesn't hate me. 

I have a feeling we will like having you here! Have a good night, and enjoy your midnight cuddles!
PS - Amazon.com is a great place to buy Feliway.... cheap!!

thx for the Amazon tip!  That stuff seems like it can get uber expensive.  Lol - I tried to explain pheremones to my wife last night when she got home from work telling here it was a natural scent released by the cat and something typically only a cat responds to...it was then just as I started to rev up for a biochemical break-down of the function and mechanisms behind pheremones that my wife's eyes got glassed over and I knew I had lost her...I stopped - awkward silence for about 1.5 seconds followed by "It looks like pee.  I hope you didn't spend $37 on a cat pee warmer - we got enough of that scent in the den already"

Lol I love my wife - she just throws it out there as she feels it. Anyway back to your post - my wife will be happy I found a cheaper place to buy the cat pee - lol!
 

pee warmer, kitty-butt-plugs... You will soon learn Amazon is a great place for all those great kitty necessities (no pun intended)

wow I think I am in love...Feliway is my newest best friend.  I finished up preparing for nursing lab this morning and was headed upstairs to refresh my coffee when who should greet me at the top with a few morning greetings of her own?  That is right, Cher.  To make sure you understand - this behavior almost never happens, but that is not the exciting part at all.  Not only was she not under the covers next to mommy, but when I started in with my best Mike Tyson voice she actually talked back to me, arched her back, rubbed her rib cage on the door jam.  That has never happened.  The recipe has always been really simple - I start to walk and cat disappears.  I extended my finger towards Cher (pointed kinda) and shebegan to circle my hand back and forth all the time coming in closer.  Finally she extended her face, and I was free to stroke her tortoise fur.  Of course we had a great session however when I very slowly moved to get up on my feet again she did walk away...she did not run by she did walk...baby steps, right?

I have been following this thread and reading your journey with Cher. I wholeheartedly agree with the advice that Carolina gave you. I can't recall if a kitty tree was mentioned, but that would be and excellent addition for Cher so she can get up high and survey her queen-dom. Plus, having those types of "up high" areas can give them confidence and a sense of security. (Carolina might have mentioned shelves.)

One thing that stood out to me is that you recently lost another kitty, Purrcy. How hard that must be. I am so sorry and send my heartfelt condolences. Related to Purrcy is an issue that should probably be addressed, so here are my thoughts (and I hope it isn't bringing back the pain of losing Purrcy by posting this): Kitties are very scent-oriented, so although Purrcy is physically gone, his/her scent is not. I would get the spray type of Feliway (besides the diffuser-type you already have) and spray just a spritz or two on the most frequented areas that Purrcy hung out at a few times a day for awhile (toys, bedding, side of doorways where he/she may have rubbed on, etc.). You can also use a small, clean cloth or rag and rub this on Cher’s cheeks, head, paw pads, base of tail (basically where scent glands are)...then rub the cloth on any places or things that Purrcy slept or was known to frequent to add Cher's scent to these areas. The Feliway spray alone might do the trick, but if not I would do the scent transfer by cloth method too. Your wife is gonna love that you bought "pee" in a spray bottle too. What a hoot!

I have got to say that I can feel the love you have for Cher (and all kitties) in your writing. You second to last post brought tears to my eyes--if only all people that had kitties showed the compassion, caring, and love that you do. I am sure that your feelings are radiating to Cher too because kitties are so intuitive and pick up on our emotions in a big way. Keep up the excellent work, Arlo! You're doing great!

It certainly is nice to meet you WhollyCat and thank you for the post.  Yes we did lose Purrcy a while back - about 9 mos.  When she passed we removed all of her stuff though so her scent would be limited to things like the floor and our bed, which seem to be perfectly calm place for Cher.  As for the scent I think I will use the cloth on the face method.  I am not sure how much more pee I can buy before my wife totally thinks I am nuts....then again it might be too late for that as well.

Thank you for your compliments on that post as well - you flatter me!

As an update on Cher:

the weirdest thing happened when i got home from school today at approx noon.  She (Cher) was talking up a storm on the steps so I talked back.  We had a regular conversation for about 5-7 minutes (did you catch the part where I say the word 'regular' in the same sentence as i talk about a conversation with my cat?) before she braved the ten feet of dangerous hardwood flooring that separated her and I.  Timidly she approached my extended finger...circled...then went in for the pets.  Within 5 seconds of that she was rolled on her back on the couch next to my leg purring and drooling like she invented that stuff.  Once you get one pet in on her she turns to mush however she always hides or runs (used to anyway) before I can get that first one in.  I swear it is that feliway stuff (the pee in the warmer).  She has been so strange since that went in.  Today I brought up a huge basket of clean laundry and she was on our bed.  As soon as I got in the room I must have been huffing and puffing and then I break her silent tranquility by putting a huge laundry basket on the bed next to her.  Oh she was not happy about it at all - she was yelling at me like an Jersey mob wife but she did not run off or hide under the bed.  All she did was move a few steps away and continued to lecture me about respect for naptime.  I got the laundry put away and I kind of plopped on the bed by her - this made her start in on me all over again ..."Meow meow !!"...but she did not leave.  I reached over...could barely reach her...the I got just a half an inch of her tail and it was over - she was mush again...purring, drooling, flinging tail into my face, rubbing her face all over me...I can guarantee she would not have done that 2 days ago.  It must be that pee...I love that stuff!!!  Next time I get in trouble with my wife I'm gonna splash some on my neck and turn on the Casanova smile...lol...relax - I am kidding.

Arlo Haarsma said:

Next time I get in trouble with my wife I'm gonna splash some on my neck and turn on the Casanova smile.

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Oh Arlo, you crack me up. Love your way with words (and kitties!!). So glad that the Cat Pee Warmer is working for you....er, I mean Cher. I'm a big fan myself, although it doesn't work for all cats in all situations. But when it does, it's AWESOME!!!! My feline-only vet has a diffuser in every exam room and sprays her smock with it before she checks out the cats. My old dude, who has had some pretty traumatic experiences at emergency vet clinics and subsequently became terrified of the whole vet experience, has turned into a purring head-butting machine at the vets now because of Feliway.

I'd love to see some pics of Cher whenever you have a chance. She sounds like such a doll.

i tried to take some pictures of her this afternoon as she was mauling me with whiskers and drool but she would not sit still long enough...omg the feliway has turned her into a furniture salesperson - on my ass all the time!  I move to one section of the sectional and she hops right over...then I let her sit for a bit hoping she will fall asleep...first a bath so lick lick lick lick lick....lick lick lick...sheesh...then she catches me looking at her while she is bathing and really gives me the eye. I felt bad about that one.  Soon enough she fell asleep so I go to the other end of the couch to take a picture of her...She literally starts yelling at me in her sleep - I pause to look and see what was wrong, and I knew I had been had.  She was up and walking to the other side of the couch.  She actually got there before I did.  Needless to say I have dozens of pictures of black blur...got one of a tooth that is a nice one....one of a tail - just the tip...i will keep trying though.  In fact that is what I am going to do now...brb

btw I totally lvoe the idea of a feline only vet...dam I am jealous

Sugarcatmom said:

I'd love to see some pics of Cher whenever you have a chance. She sounds like such a doll.

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Oh yes, me too! Photos, we want photos!

You definitely have a way of describing purrfectly how Cher is doing, and it always gives me a huge Cheshire grin reading them. I'm so, so happy to read about your latest interactions with Cher. Great job!

Arlo Haarsma said:

i tried to take some pictures of her this afternoon as she was mauling me with whiskers and drool but she would not sit still long enough...omg the feliway has turned her into a furniture salesperson - on my ass all the time!  I move to one section of the sectional and she hops right over...then I let her sit for a bit hoping she will fall asleep...first a bath so lick lick lick lick lick....lick lick lick...sheesh...then she catches me looking at her while she is bathing and really gives me the eye. I felt bad about that one.  Soon enough she fell asleep so I go to the other end of the couch to take a picture of her...She literally starts yelling at me in her sleep - I pause to look and see what was wrong, and I knew I had been had.  She was up and walking to the other side of the couch.  She actually got there before I did.  Needless to say I have dozens of pictures of black blur...got one of a tooth that is a nice one....one of a tail - just the tip...i will keep trying though.  In fact that is what I am going to do now...brb

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A little trick I learned from watching "My Cat from Hell" with Jackson Galaxy (on Animal Planet) is what I call the 'slow kitty blink' used to relax kitties and reassure them. I actually tried this on my non-stressed boy Maxie, my Maine Coon, to see what would happen...and he fell asleep--sitting up! What you do is while looking into kitty's eyes is to just very slowly blink your eyes, watch kitty, blink slowly again, and continue. Once they return your blink...back to Maxie...I did it a few more times, with return blinks from Maxie...until the big guy fell asleep sitting up about two feet from me within a couple minutes. I wanted to laugh out loud, but contained myself, because it was so funny that it relaxed him so much he fell asleep sitting up in such a short amount of time.

Here's a little excerpt of how Jackson calmed a lot of kitties in a shelter during a violent storm:

http://animal.discovery.com/tv/my-cat-from-hell/about-jackson-galaxy.html

"One night the shelter cats where Jackson Galaxy worked gave him the gift that dubbed him the "cat listener." While working late during a violent storm, he heard all of the cats in the stray cat impound area screaming. He had heard somewhere that a "slow blink" means "I love you" in feline; a slow blink exchanged by cat and human establishes a link between the two. He went to the impound area to try it, and if nothing else, perhaps it would quiet down or reassure a few of the cats.

Forty-five minutes later, the room was filled with sleeping cats, and Jackson sat in the dark corner, knowing that his life had just taken a turn."

Hey, regarding the photos, if you have Photoshop you could combine all the parts together for a photo. Sorry, couldn't resist suggesting this. (Heeheehee...)

Aw, I just wanted to jump in and say I read through this thread, and like Jules (whollycat), I'm wearing my biggest Cheshire grin now too! I love that Cher is now mauling you with her whiskers and drool! Obviously further advice isn't needed - I love it!

I am wondering one thing. Are you and your beautiful wife considering purchasing a cat tree for your Cher? If it's in front of a window, I think you'll end up enjoying watching her love it! :lol3: